Report: Hezbollah, Syria to join forces in future clash with Israel

[Apocalypse]

Actually Apoc...
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Never knew that we've actually declared it in the end, thanks for the correction.
But that doesn't change the fact that those were indeed nuclear sites Israel was bombing.

Now let's return to the topic of the thread.

 

[Demon of Light]

They only supporting Hizbollah because Israel is occupying Syrian territory... "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".. and Hizbollah only exists because Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon and still occupy disputed areas.

Actually, I think the only disputed territory is what Israel gained through taking the Golan Heights and it was disputed with Syria before that. Of course, that naturally means the dispute became a dispute between Lebanon and Israel, but still these are not territories Israel occupied in its invasions of Lebanon, but territories it has been occupying long before.

On an interesting side note, however, Israel did occupy Southern Lebanon back in the 1948 War.

And Iran only supports Hizbollah in many ways, because it is a thorn in Israel's side (same with Hamas) and happen to have the same political/religious ideas.

Iran established Hezbollah. It isn't just an alliance of convenience. With Syria this is the case as their favored group, Amal, is simply not as capable as Hezbollah.

Not unless they're certain they can win the war.
Israel can pretty much remove over 80% of the capabilities of the Syrian military within less than 12 hours, by utterly destroying its military bases.
It's not '67 anymore when the Syrians could even hope to stand a chance, the gaps between the capabilities of the two armies have increased exponentially during the years and the Syrian army is no more of a threat to the IDF than the Iraqi army was to the US military.

I think you are far too optimistic and have been bombarded with this absurd notion of Israeli superiority. Certainly Israel has been more successful against the crappy Egyptian and Syrian forces of the past, but that does not mean Israel is actually all that capable. Israel is simply better than the powers it has fought who are themselves not particularly good.

However, certain major strategic shifts are taking place that greatly imperil Israel's edge in conventional warfare. We saw in the 2006 Lebanon War how a capable military force can perform against Israel.

That is the result of Iranian training and as the Iranians have been building ties with Syria it is certain some of that training is being given to them as well.

One major change to the balance of power would be the possible purchase by Syria of the Yakhont anti-ship cruise missile. If Syria gets a few dozen of those it will be poised to sink every Israeli surface ship with ease. Such a development can hardly be taken lightly as you are taking it. Also, Syria learned from the 2006 Lebanon War and has built up its arsenal of anti-tank weapons.

It would be irresponsible for anyone in Israel to think they can easily defeat Syria.

 

[PeteEU]

Nope, it's the whole truth, and it's called history.

Maybe the spoon fed Israeli version but when your own leaders say that they had a policy of "taking land" from the Syria up to the 1967 war, then your "history" is not exactly accurate.

General's Words Shed a New Light on the Golan - NYTimes.com

General Dayan interrupted: ''Never mind that. After all, I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was.''

Funny enough that is the same tactic they use in the West Bank, but in this case the opposition throws rocks not missiles. Let me guess, you are going to try to discredit one of your war heroes right? What is he.. not jewish enough?

On top of that, Israel started to divert water from the River Jordan, and to counter that Syria started to build a dam, which Israel bombed in.. 1965. That is a fact.

And I am not saying Syria are freaking angels, but blaming Syria for everything is just idiotic. Israel has in the whole conflict been the aggressor far more times than anyone else. And as they say, the victor writes the history books.

Again, fully true.

So you are saying that the Palestinian people either have no right to fight oppression or occupation or that there is no oppression or occupation?

That's what you did.
No one was asking why they support Hizbollah, I was merely stating a fact that they do support Hizbollah.
You came up and started reasoning their support for the terrorists, without telling the whole truth.

You were the one not explaining why they are supporting Hizbollah or why Hizbollah is around at all.... so you were not telling the whole truth.

There is more proof that Syria was building nuclear sites than there is that it was Israel that has bombed it.
Simply playing it your way, you wish to claim that it's not crystal clear that those were nuclear sites, I say the same about the bombing.

Point is, Israel attacked Syria, without Syria retaliating. Hence a war between Isreal and Syria started by Syria is very doubtful.

Israel as a state loses plenty of money whenever an F-16i is dropping a half-ton bomb.

Yea but others make billions, which is the point. The Israeli economy has benefited hugely with technology import (or out right stealing) from the US which was only possible because of the very close ties between the two countries due to the troubles.

 

[PeteEU]

Actually, I think the only disputed territory is what Israel gained through taking the Golan Heights and it was disputed with Syria before that. Of course, that naturally means the dispute became a dispute between Lebanon and Israel, but still these are not territories Israel occupied in its invasions of Lebanon, but territories it has been occupying long before.

See my response to Apocalypse.

On an interesting side note, however, Israel did occupy Southern Lebanon back in the 1948 War.

And kept parts in dispute.

Iran established Hezbollah

No that is factually not correct. Hezbollah was not founded by Iran, but Hezbollah foundation was motivated by the Iranian revolution and both groups have the same sect religion of Islam. The core reason to found Hezbollah (which is a southern Lebanese organisation) was because of Israeli occupation.

It isn't just an alliance of convenience.

With Iran? No, it has political and religious aspects.

With Syria this is the case as their favored group, Amal, is simply not as capable as Hezbollah.

Syria is cracking down on militant groups in Syria. They tolerated them for some time now, but enough is enough. It will be interesting to see what happens there. Other than the issues with Israel, Hezbollah and Syria have zero in common.

 

[ido_]

General Dayan interrupted: ''Never mind that. After all, I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was.''

The Syrians didn't shoot only tractors, they shelled Israeli villages around the sea of the Gallile regulary.

 

[PeteEU]

The Syrians didn't shoot only tractors, they shelled Israeli villages around the sea of the Gallile regulary.

And the Israelis routinely stole Syrian land, bombed Syrian positions and killed Syrians while stealing the land. Your own minister of defence at the time admits it!

We can go on and on... it will take someone with balls to say.. to hell with the past and go for the future.. give back the Golan, give back all the disputed land in return for peace and security. Make a deal with the Palestinians regardless of what radicals on both sides say and do.. both peoples want for the most part, peace...

 

[ido_]

And the Israelis routinely stole Syrian land, bombed Syrian positions and killed Syrians while stealing the land. Your own minister of defence at the time admits it!

We can go on and on... it will take someone with balls to say.. to hell with the past and go for the future.. give back the Golan, give back all the disputed land in return for peace and security. Make a deal with the Palestinians regardless of what radicals on both sides say and do.. both peoples want for the most part, peace...

So bombing civilian villages as retaliation to attacks on army positions is ok?

 

[Tashah]

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[jmh423]

Not yet ... because up to now ... Israel has shown great restraint. The first time a missle from a country governed by zealot apes hits a population center in Israel ... Isreal will rape Syria, Hezbollah, and anybody caught aiding either.

Is it OK to call the leaders of Israel's neighbors "zealot apes" and condone rape here under the "martial law" edict in the Middle East section of DPF? Do those rules only apply to critics of Israel? Many people of the region and the world at large including many Jews, consider Israel's leaders war criminals, murderers, theives and racist supremicists. Are those who feel that way allowed to express their views here? If not, why the double standard?

Thanks

 

[Vader]

Is it OK to call the leaders of Israel's neighbors "zealot apes" and condone rape here under the "martial law" edict in the Middle East section of DPF? Do those rules only apply to critics of Israel? Many people of the region and the world at large including many Jews, consider Israel's leaders war criminals, murderers, theives and racist supremicists. Are those who feel that way allowed to express their views here? If not, why the double standard?

Thanks

It's what they are. They are barbarians who sentence women to be stoned to death. This is barbaric ape-like activity. Israel doesn't do this type of thing. As such, Israel's leaders cannot be considered barbarians, apes, or backwards zealotous asshats. The same cannot be said about Syria, Iran, Gaza, Saudi Arabia, ect ...