Replace the HVAC or wait?

[Rexedgar]

I didn’t get into the weeds with BTU/SEER, but if the price was close, I would get the longer warranty and Lennox is a more familiar name in HVAC than American Standard which brings porcelain conveniences to mind.


Advice is worth what it cost you…….

I also wouldn’t radically downsize from what you have unless you are lucky at poker….

 

[Cardinal]

I didn’t get into the weeds with BTU/SEER, but if the price was close, I would get the longer warranty and Lennox is a more familiar name in HVAC than American Standard which brings porcelain conveniences to mind.


Advice is worth what it cost you…….

The company offering American Standard (company 2) has the longer warranty.

 

[Cardinal]

I also wouldn’t radically downsize from what you have unless you are lucky at poker….

Well, that's part of the second-guessing fun of it all. If they all agree that the btu load is supposed to be 80k, then wouldn't the 120k load have been "radical"?

 

[Antiwar]

My AC broke last summer and the estimates to replace it were about and over $20,000. We bought portable AC units that have a big exhaust hose going out a window and made do. I wish we would've gone with window units because they have some advantages.

I've been working on fixing my AC lately. There's a capacitor and a contactor that are bad. One of the estimates was to repair those for ~$1800. I got the parts locally for about $60. I just need to determine where one wire goes because the contactor I got was configured a little differently. I'm not good with electrical, but it's not hard at all, especially with the internet. If the contactor were the same configuration, it'd be a piece of cake. If I don't get it working, I have the portables as a backup. The HVAC company also said the unit in the basement is corroded and fragile (mostly if they tried to clean it).

I'd be interested to hear people's actual experience with a ductless split system.

Cleaning up and sleeping in the basement is probably going to look like a good option considering how outrageous the power bills were last summer. A straw bale house would be better.

 

[Rexedgar]

My AC broke last summer and the estimates to replace it were about and over $20,000. We bought portable AC units that have a big exhaust hose going out a window and made do. I wish we would've gone with window units because they have some advantages.

I've been working on fixing my AC lately. There's a capacitor and a contactor that are bad. One of the estimates was to repair those for ~$1800. I got the parts locally for about $60. I just need to determine where one wire goes because the contactor I got was configured a little differently. I'm not good with electrical, but it's not hard at all, especially with the internet. If the contactor were the same configuration, it'd be a piece of cake. If I don't get it working, I have the portables as a backup.

I'd be interested to hear people's actual experience with a ductless split system.

First thing I would look at was your homeowner’s policy…..


A/C/Heating isn’t the type of thing to repair yourself and then have to call someone to fix what you started. I do all my own electrical, but I won’t do HVAC for that reason.

Labor Rate-$100p/hr
If You Watch-$150
If You Worked On It Before-$250

 

[Rexedgar]

My AC broke last summer and the estimates to replace it were about and over $20,000. We bought portable AC units that have a big exhaust hose going out a window and made do. I wish we would've gone with window units because they have some advantages.

I've been working on fixing my AC lately. There's a capacitor and a contactor that are bad. One of the estimates was to repair those for ~$1800. I got the parts locally for about $60. I just need to determine where one wire goes because the contactor I got was configured a little differently. I'm not good with electrical, but it's not hard at all, especially with the internet. If the contactor were the same configuration, it'd be a piece of cake. If I don't get it working, I have the portables as a backup. The HVAC company also said the unit in the basement is corroded and fragile (mostly if they tried to clean it).

I'd be interested to hear people's actual experience with a ductless split system.

Cleaning up and sleeping in the basement is probably going to look like a good option considering how outrageous the power bills were last summer.

I have two mini splits in my two large outbuildings. MR SLIM/Mitsubishi. I have no worries. One place is 1500 sf and the other is 900sf. Not sure how they would do a whole house. The are very prevalent in Europe where ducts cannot be run in old buildings.

 

[WorldWatcher]

What are the brand options?



Edit; Re reread your post……you are anal, dude, and it takes one to know one!

You should have seen my spreadsheet!! LOL

Had suppliers, brands, capacities, factory warranty, seller warranty, certifications, ratings for multiple review sites, etc.

And I'm not anal. I'm CDO (which is Compulsive Disorder for Obsessives which should be used instead of OCD because CDO is alphabetized.)

WW

 

[Cardinal]

You should have seen my spreadsheet!! LOL

Had suppliers, brands, capacities, factory warranty, seller warranty, certifications, ratings for multiple review sites, etc.

And I'm not anal. I'm CDO (which is Compulsive Disorder for Obsessives which should be used instead of OCD because CDO is alphabetized.)

WW

That was our spread sheet!

 

[Rexedgar]

That was our spread sheet!

You’re gonna ride that bitch in aren’t you?

 

[Antiwar]

First thing I would look at was your homeowner’s policy…..


A/C/Heating isn’t the type of thing to repair yourself and then have to call someone to fix what you started. I do all my own electrical, but I won’t do HVAC for that reason.

Labor Rate-$100p/hr
If You Watch-$150
If You Worked On It Before-$250

I changed my house insurance to cover fire and someone getting hurt on the property because my roof is old, and that's also a small fortune to get done, so there's no coverage for my HVAC system.

My HVAC is on its last legs anyway, and if I mess anything up it'd very likely be the new parts I bought. One new electrical terminal would be the only evidence, and I could clip that off and no one would know. Yes, I know you're joking about the work rates.

 

[beefheart]

I had to replace one of the two Air Conditioning/heat pumps on my roof 4 years ago, luckily, they had a much higher seer rated one that fit in the same space, which is important, because it is on a flat roof that is foamed over, exterior air ducts are under a few inches of foam as well. I really didn't want the roof torn up, because it would need re-foaming. The cost savings were very high, typically, I cool only the back 800 square feet of the house which has our bedroom and bath, and the "great room" that contains the office and the computer, the sofa, and TV and fireplace. Always worth it to move up to something more efficient. My other A/C unit will need replacement, its old, but we don't use it too much, it cools the front room and the original 4 bedroom 2 bath part of the house that is under the shingled roof.

Very lucky to be living in this house, my parents bought it in 1960, it was built in 1957. It is a brick masonry one story house, with incredible insulation. The bricks are all insulated (probably with ancient asbestos, but that is well contained), and the attic is deep in insulation. About 10 years ago, I replaced all but the picture window with dual pane glass, and that has led to incredible savings. I would like to do solar, a bit at a time, but I would have to bite the bullet and replace the very old power box and that will cost a bundle.

Go for it if you can afford it....you know you will have to upgrade someday....

 

[Cardinal]

You’re gonna ride that bitch in aren’t you?

I don't know what the bitch you're referring to is, but yes.

 

[Antiwar]

I have two mini splits in my two large outbuildings. MR SLIM/Mitsubishi. I have no worries. One place is 1500 sf and the other is 900sf. Not sure how they would do a whole house. The are very prevalent in Europe where ducts cannot be run in old buildings.

The mini split estimate was cheaper than the less efficient (I believe) ducted system by several thousand dollars. @Cardinal, I'd seriously consider going with a ductless split system.

 

[beefheart]

De-humidification...wow, that is something you would never hear of or know about in Arizona! We frequently have humidity in the single digits. A lot of homes here have evaporative cooling, which can only work in this kind of climate. You get fresh, cold humid air, and all you need to run is a simple water pump and a motor to turn the turbine. Its simple, there is a water pan at the bottom of the cooler (with a water line and a float to keep it filled), a water pump sucks up the water, pulls it up a few feet and distributes it to the 4 sides of the cooler and the water falls all over fiberglass, or treated paper floss, and drips back into the pan. The motor turns a big drum turbine which sucks air from the outside, through the wet fiberglass, and into the house. You open a window in the house to air out the humidity and create a negative pressure. Cold cheap air until it get humid out. You do need to know how to maintain it though, and you need something in there to soften the water, the calcium builds up...

 

[jmotivator]

We have a 25 year old home with the original HVAC (1 stage 90% furnace, 1 stage 10 SEER AC) and we're considering replacing it in spite of the fact that, for now at least, it's working just fine. But there's very light dripping from the furnace exchange, which has caused a small amount of rust on the plate below it. The problem isn't severe, but it's there. All the HVAC people who've come over didn't feel that the dripping exchange was an immediate issue, but it's clear that our HVAC's glory days are behind it. But whether we have one year left in it, or four or ten just can't be known.

We've gotten multiple quotes and have decided on a 2 stage 96% furnace and a 2 stage 17 SEER AC, which would also be better at handling basic dehumidification. Buuuut, we're still on the fence about whether or not to pull the trigger since it's a major expense and we've never done this before.

So as I see it, we have two ways of looking at this:

1) Drive the current HVAC into the ground and get a new system only when we absolutely need it. The clock on a new system starts ticking as soon as it's installed, and at least this way we know we've gotten as much out of the old one as we can. And remember that old or new, the current HVAC is regulating the temperature and humidity just fine. It is not malfunctioning in any way (dripping exchange notwithstanding).

Or...

2) Buy a new system now, before hardware prices go up, and reap the benefits of energy savings from getting a more efficient system. However, a common theme we've heard is that newer, smarter and more complex systems don't last as long as older, dumber 1 stage systems, so getting 25 years out of the new one would be completely unrealistic.

How would you think about this? Note: we can do 5 year 0% financing.

I'm in kind of the same place. I have a dual AC unit that is about 15 years old. In my estimate, with the doubling of the chance of failure, I might as well have a 30 yo AC. I'm considering moving to a high efficiency single unit, but we really have no current major issues. The Heat, on the other hand, was installed by, to hear it told, a mental patient. It costs extra every time I have anyone out to service it because it takes them forever to figure out how the orginal installer installed it the way they did.

I have one semi-major project in the budget this year, though, and I'm waffling between AC, Heat and Natural Gas generator. Based on the last two years of power reliability in my neighborhood, I'm leaning towards the gas generator.

 

[beefheart]

Just replaced our heat pump with a 16 SEER 2 stage package. House is all electric.
In Arizona APS and SRP are the main electrical companies. Both are offering rebates up to $1200.

OP, if you have the money and don't need to finance, I would go ahead and replace. Parts for an older unit may get hard to find. With a new unit you have warranties to fall back on for the next few years.

Who do you have? I am lucky to have SRP, and I am one of the rare people that actually take the time to vote for their board elections. This year, we got more solar people on the board, hopefully they can do something about the net metering issue.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I may upgrade my 20 year old AC to a dual AC and heat unit next spring. Also this thread prompted me to request a quote for regular maintenance, which I should do since I just bought the house a few months back.

I am not as much in a hurry at the moment because I have a boiler for heat as well.

 

[Luce]

We have a 25 year old home with the original HVAC (1 stage 90% furnace, 1 stage 10 SEER AC) and we're considering replacing it in spite of the fact that, for now at least, it's working just fine. But there's very light dripping from the furnace exchange, which has caused a small amount of rust on the plate below it. The problem isn't severe, but it's there. All the HVAC people who've come over didn't feel that the dripping exchange was an immediate issue, but it's clear that our HVAC's glory days are behind it. But whether we have one year left in it, or four or ten just can't be known.

We've gotten multiple quotes and have decided on a 2 stage 96% furnace and a 2 stage 17 SEER AC, which would also be better at handling basic dehumidification. Buuuut, we're still on the fence about whether or not to pull the trigger since it's a major expense and we've never done this before.

So as I see it, we have two ways of looking at this:

1) Drive the current HVAC into the ground and get a new system only when we absolutely need it. The clock on a new system starts ticking as soon as it's installed, and at least this way we know we've gotten as much out of the old one as we can. And remember that old or new, the current HVAC is regulating the temperature and humidity just fine. It is not malfunctioning in any way (dripping exchange notwithstanding).

Or...

2) Buy a new system now, before hardware prices go up, and reap the benefits of energy savings from getting a more efficient system. However, a common theme we've heard is that newer, smarter and more complex systems don't last as long as older, dumber 1 stage systems, so getting 25 years out of the new one would be completely unrealistic.

How would you think about this? Note: we can do 5 year 0% financing.

Almost all currently-produced air conditioners are absolute crap, so hold off if you can.

Medea makes a good product, but due to trade restrictions, the largest system you can buy in the states is 5 tons.

 

[beefheart]

I may upgrade my 20 year old AC to a dual AC and heat unit next spring. Also this thread prompted me to request a quote for regular maintenance, which I should do since I just bought the house a few months back.

I am not as much in a hurry at the moment because I have a boiler for heat as well.

I saw my A/C guy yesterday, he was working on neighbor's house. When you get a good company, keep them! I went to high school with his brother and him, I had him out last week to replace a water heater that was there since 1991, and was starting to leak. Amazed that it lasted that long with the crappy hard water we have. Next time he sends out a special offer I'm gonna have him do a maintenance on both A/C units I have.

If you live in Phoenix, A/C isn't something you mess with. So many 110 degree days each summer, its deadly.

 

[Cardinal]

Almost all currently-produced air conditioners are absolute crap, so hold off if you can.

Medea makes a good product, but due to trade restrictions, the largest system you can buy in the states is 5 tons.

Great.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I saw my A/C guy yesterday, he was working on neighbor's house. When you get a good company, keep them! I went to high school with his brother and him, I had him out last week to replace a water heater that was there since 1991, and was starting to leak. Amazed that it lasted that long with the crappy hard water we have. Next time he sends out a special offer I'm gonna have him do a maintenance on both A/C units I have.

If you live in Phoenix, A/C isn't something you mess with. So many 110 degree days each summer, its deadly.

The old man who had the house left 60 years of records. I tend to use whoever he used.

 

[Luce]

Great.

What size of system do you have now?

The principle problem with most new HVAC units is that instead of a copper pipe/aluminum aftercooler, they are 100% stamped aluminum and will leak if you look at them funny. Like, right out of the crate.

 

[Cardinal]

What size of system do you have now?

The principle problem with most new HVAC units is that instead of a copper pipe/aluminum aftercooler, they are 100% stamped aluminum and will leak if you look at them funny. Like, right out of the crate.

120k btu furnace, 3.5 ton AC. Everyone says that newer and more efficient hvacs make this one completely oversized, and that we only need 80k btu and 3 ton ac. We've had five different companies come over and 4 say go with 80k, 1 suggested 100k.

 

[WorldWatcher]

120k btu furnace, 3.5 ton AC. Everyone says that newer and more efficient hvacs make this one completely oversized, and that we only need 80k btu and 3 ton ac. We've had five different companies come over and 4 say go with 80k, 1 suggested 100k.

There is a point to saying that (for example):

100K BTU at 80% efficiency = 80K BTU output
100K BTU at 96% efficiency = 96K BTU output
80K BTU at 96% efficiency = 77K BTU output

The idea being as the system becomes more efficient it doesn't have to be as oversized in raw potential to result in the same, or close, output.

(Don't know, just spit ball'n here.)

WW

 

[Common Sense 1]

Think Murphy's law! Do it at your leisure, not in an emergency situation.