Repent!!!! The End Is Near???? (1 Viewer)

[AlbqOwl]

Sometime in every generation, there is at least one impromptu revival of Christians preaching a doctrine that the 'signs are right' and the 'end is near'. In previous decades, some groups actually sold everything they owned, gave it to the poor, and retreated to a figurative mountaintop to await the Second Coming and/or the Rapture depending on which they thought would occur first.

To date, all such hopeful groups have been disappointed. Others remain hopeful. Most are of the opinion that a time and date certain is not available to us.

Nevertheless, the current conflict in the Middle East has inevitably raised the level of expection on some religious fronts.

So what do you think? Are we seeing the beginnings of the end here? Or this is just one more war among wars that happen every year or so.? Or all that end times stuff is ust a lot of hooey?

ATTENTION: If we could discuss without personally insulting any person or group it would be very much appreciated.

 

[jfuh]

I would hope that the end is near. That is the end of sectarian violence and the end of unilateral invasions.
Perhaps we would realize the uselessness of preaching our ways of living to those who have thier own ways of life.
Sure ppl want freedom universally, however just as is with time, everything is relative and only from a matter of perspective.
When we has the soviets around, we could say, look, this is why we are good and they are evil, this is what we stand for this is what they stand for.
Yet today, there's a certain wing of thought that seems to have no problem giving away the fundamental principles of our nation and accept the totalitarian mindset of the former soviet block for what is nothing more then paranoia.
We seem more shut off to embracing and learning of other ppls and cultures now and arrogantly shoving down our ideals down others throats.
Sure they may be backwards and ignorant, but then who are we to tell them they are wrong? How is this any different from colonial Europe shoving thier ideals and "educating" the barbarians?
These "barbarians" are millenia old rich cultures. I think we should step back and re-examine much of how we're approaching them with our "iron" fist of unilateral pre-emptive strikes.

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

Religious loons have been saying that the end times are upon us for thousands of years and it has yet to happen. Of course, the end times as portrayed in the Old Testament are entirely different from the end times as portrayed in the New Testament. The arrival of the Messiah is the begining of the end times in the Old Testament and, since the Messiah has yet to arrive, we're a long way away from the end.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Religious loons have been saying that the end times are upon us for thousands of years and it has yet to happen. Of course, the end times as portrayed in the Old Testament are entirely different from the end times as portrayed in the New Testament. The arrival of the Messiah is the begining of the end times in the Old Testament and, since the Messiah has yet to arrive, we're a long way away from the end.

\

Well most interpretations of the Old Testament don't really place the beginning of the end with the arrival of the Messiah. The Messiah was to restore Israel to its intended glory and was actually seen as a new beginning. With the New Testament, depending on which eschatological camp one throws in with, it is the return of the Messiah that factors into the end times and different 'schools' factor that in different ways.

Question for you or anybody: What could pretty much convince you that we are absolutely in our last days on Earth?

 

[tecoyah]

\


Question for you or anybody: What could pretty much convince you that we are absolutely in our last days on Earth?

For me...a Local Supernova generating a massive Gamma Ray burst, documented and confirmed by multiple entities would do the trick. Though I am sure someone would find a passage in one bible or another that linked it to something God once said to someone.

 

[AlbqOwl]

For me...a Local Supernova generating a massive Gamma Ray burst, documented and confirmed by multiple entities would do the trick. Though I am sure someone would find a passage in one bible or another that linked it to something God once said to someone.

Would millions and millions of folks suddenly disappeared all at the same time give you any pause for thought?

 

[cherokee]

Sometime in every generation, there is at least one impromptu revival of Christians preaching a doctrine that the 'signs are right' and the 'end is near'. In previous decades, some groups actually sold everything they owned, gave it to the poor, and retreated to a figurative mountaintop to await the Second Coming and/or the Rapture depending on which they thought would occur first.

To date, all such hopeful groups have been disappointed. Others remain hopeful. Most are of the opinion that a time and date certain is not available to us.

Nevertheless, the current conflict in the Middle East has inevitably raised the level of expection on some religious fronts.

So what do you think? Are we seeing the beginnings of the end here? Or this is just one more war among wars that happen every year or so.? Or all that end times stuff is ust a lot of hooey?

ATTENTION: If we could discuss without personally insulting any person or group it would be very much appreciated.

yea the end is near...I'll make some popcorn..:mrgreen:

 

[tecoyah]

Would millions and millions of folks suddenly disappeared all at the same time give you any pause for thought?

Most definately....should that occur, I might even rethink my position of the "God" question.

Would absolute proof of a 4 billion year old Earth Give YOU pause?
Would absolute verification of 40,000 year old Humans force you to question your faith?

At least these things are plausible, and have support in something other than the Imagination. And, incidentally, they converted at least ONE very devout Christian I know of.

 

[Pen]

I usually enrage those that believe in Armagedon and that the end times are near. It makes perfect sense to me that the "Great Satan" that takes control of the Middle East is Bush, under their belief system. My bad.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Most definately....should that occur, I might even rethink my position of the "God" question.

Would absolute proof of a 4 billion year old Earth Give YOU pause?
Would absolute verification of 40,000 year old Humans force you to question your faith?

At least these things are plausible, and have support in something other than the Imagination. And, incidentally, they converted at least ONE very devout Christian I know of.

I've never questioned a 4 billion year old Earth or 40,000 year old humans or humanlike people. Have you? My faith has no quarrel with most science in any way, and in the very few areas in which I do have issues with popular science, those issues have absolutely nothing to do with my religious faith.

I was just curious what serious 'proof' would convince you of matters of faith in which you do not currently believe.

 

[AlbqOwl]

yea the end is near...I'll make some popcorn..:mrgreen:

I love popcorn. :2razz:

 

[cherokee]

I love popcorn. :2razz:

Cool thats two for the end of the world party! andybody else?...

ps. I make it the old fashion way with REAL butter...

 

[PrimBabUB]

I usually enrage those that believe in Armagedon and that the end times are near. It makes perfect sense to me that the "Great Satan" that takes control of the Middle East is Bush, under their belief system. My bad.

Really? You think Bush is the "Great Satan" of the middle east? So what do you think Ahmadinejad is, the bringer of love beads and flowers?

“From the beginning of time, humanity has longed for the day when justice, peace, equality and compassion envelop the world. All of us can contribute to the establishment of such a world. When that day comes, the ultimate promise of all Divine religions will be fulfilled with the emergence of a perfect human being [12th Imam] who is heir to all prophets and pious men. He will lead the world to justice and absolute peace. O mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace.”

“Our revolution’s main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi,” Ahmadinejad said in the speech to Friday Prayers leaders from across the country.

“I do not doubt that the new wave which has begun in our dear Palestine and which today we are also witnessing in the Islamic world is a wave of morality which has spread all over the Islamic world. Very soon, this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel ] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world – and this is attainable.”

"Considering his aggressive radicalism in context with the potential convergence of nuclear opportunity, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could be the most dangerous foreign leader we have faced. He must be seen and analyzed as more than just ‘potentially’ irrational, as his religious beliefs must be clearly and thoroughly understood. His openly stated desires to “wipe Israel off the map” and “pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam” open the possibility that, with the power of nuclear weaponry at hand, he could unthinkably forsake the well-being of his own nation. In order to serve a ‘greater purpose’, he may be capable of creating a situation so cataclysmic that it would usher in the 12th Imam, thereby, potentially in his mind, saving the world and restoring Islam."

http://analysis.threatswatch.org/2005/11/understanding-ahmadinejad/

What do you make of Ahmadinejad's cryptic and veiled threats regarding 8/22, which is only about three days away?

Further reading:

He literally believes in the imminent emergence of the Mahdi, the Shiites’ Promised One who is expected to appear to set aright a decadent and wretched world.
He views himself as the vassal of the Mahdi, working for him and being accountable to him.
His main task is to prepare the world so as to hasten the Mahdi’s coming, using much destruction and bloodshed if necessary.
As a former mayor of Tehran, he developed elaborately detailed plans preparing the city for the arrival of the Mahdi.
He allocated generous sums for extensive road improvement to a mosque at Jamkaaraan near the city of Qum where it is believed the promised Mahdi has been hiding in a well for more than 1100 years.
He reportedly visits the well frequently and drops his written supplications into the well for the hidden Mahdi to act upon.
He sees the Jews as the sworn enemies of Islam.
He has said that the Holocaust is a myth. He is, in this respect, in good company with a number of other revisionist claimants.
He wants Israel to be wiped off the map or transferred to Europe.
In his speech at the UN general assembly, he implored the Mahdi to come and save the world. He claimed that during his speech of some twenty odd minutes, a powerful light enveloped him and all participants were held transfixed unable to move their eyes.
He believes that the earth is Allah’s and all people must either become believers of his brand of Islam or must perish as infidels najis (unclean) who by their very presence defile Allah’s earth.
He believes that if a faithful Muslim kills an infidel, he goes to Allah’s paradise; and, if a Muslim is killed in the process of serving the faith, again he goes to Allah’s paradise. Hence, it is a win-win proposition for the faithful.


http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/challenges.php?id=110573

 

[tryreading]

Really? You think Bush is the "Great Satan" of the middle east? So what do you think Ahmadinejad is, the bringer of love beads and flowers?

“From the beginning of time, humanity has longed for the day when justice, peace, equality and compassion envelop the world. All of us can contribute to the establishment of such a world. When that day comes, the ultimate promise of all Divine religions will be fulfilled with the emergence of a perfect human being [12th Imam] who is heir to all prophets and pious men. He will lead the world to justice and absolute peace. O mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace.”

“Our revolution’s main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi,” Ahmadinejad said in the speech to Friday Prayers leaders from across the country.

“I do not doubt that the new wave which has begun in our dear Palestine and which today we are also witnessing in the Islamic world is a wave of morality which has spread all over the Islamic world. Very soon, this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel ] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world – and this is attainable.”

"Considering his aggressive radicalism in context with the potential convergence of nuclear opportunity, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could be the most dangerous foreign leader we have faced. He must be seen and analyzed as more than just ‘potentially’ irrational, as his religious beliefs must be clearly and thoroughly understood. His openly stated desires to “wipe Israel off the map” and “pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam” open the possibility that, with the power of nuclear weaponry at hand, he could unthinkably forsake the well-being of his own nation. In order to serve a ‘greater purpose’, he may be capable of creating a situation so cataclysmic that it would usher in the 12th Imam, thereby, potentially in his mind, saving the world and restoring Islam."

http://analysis.threatswatch.org/2005/11/understanding-ahmadinejad/

What do you make of Ahmadinejad's cryptic and veiled threats regarding 8/22, which is only about three days away?

Further reading:

He literally believes in the imminent emergence of the Mahdi, the Shiites’ Promised One who is expected to appear to set aright a decadent and wretched world.
He views himself as the vassal of the Mahdi, working for him and being accountable to him.
His main task is to prepare the world so as to hasten the Mahdi’s coming, using much destruction and bloodshed if necessary.
As a former mayor of Tehran, he developed elaborately detailed plans preparing the city for the arrival of the Mahdi.
He allocated generous sums for extensive road improvement to a mosque at Jamkaaraan near the city of Qum where it is believed the promised Mahdi has been hiding in a well for more than 1100 years.
He reportedly visits the well frequently and drops his written supplications into the well for the hidden Mahdi to act upon.
He sees the Jews as the sworn enemies of Islam.
He has said that the Holocaust is a myth. He is, in this respect, in good company with a number of other revisionist claimants.
He wants Israel to be wiped off the map or transferred to Europe.
In his speech at the UN general assembly, he implored the Mahdi to come and save the world. He claimed that during his speech of some twenty odd minutes, a powerful light enveloped him and all participants were held transfixed unable to move their eyes.
He believes that the earth is Allah’s and all people must either become believers of his brand of Islam or must perish as infidels najis (unclean) who by their very presence defile Allah’s earth.
He believes that if a faithful Muslim kills an infidel, he goes to Allah’s paradise; and, if a Muslim is killed in the process of serving the faith, again he goes to Allah’s paradise. Hence, it is a win-win proposition for the faithful.


http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/challenges.php?id=110573

Iran's president is a fanatic who would like to have his holy book's predictions occur in his lifetime. There are fanatics of every religion who want this. I think there are more than a couple who would like to somehow initiate the 'end times' conditions themselves. The prophecy, written by men, will be fulfilled by men. Whether the prophecy was written from any truly divine angle, or if people who believe it, since they believe it, will do their best to make sure the predictions come true, it will be those people themselves causing the messianic ending, because their book foretold it. Even if there is no God, men can ensure that the revelations occur.

Wouldn't it be funny if ten thousand years from now Jack Van Impe's future peer is urgently broadcasting on his daily galactic web show that Earth better prepare, the end times are near?

 

[PrimBabUB]

Iran's president is a fanatic who would like to have his holy book's predictions occur in his lifetime. There are fanatics of every religion who want this. I think there are more than a couple who would like to somehow initiate the 'end times' conditions themselves. The prophecy, written by men, will be fulfilled by men. Whether the prophecy was written from any truly divine angle, or if people who believe it, since they believe it, will do their best to make sure the predictions come true, it will be those people themselves causing the messianic ending, because their book foretold it. Even if there is no God, men can ensure that the revelations occur.

Wouldn't it be funny if ten thousand years from now Jack Van Impe's future peer is urgently broadcasting on his daily galactic web show that Earth better prepare, the end times are near?

I had never heard of JVI before you referenced him. I'm not impressed.

I'm not familiar with other fanatics of every religion who are wanting armageddon. Perhaps you could enlighten me. Just remember, referencing something, does not mean you are wanting it.

I don't really think man can bring about total destruction of the earth. He may be able to kill his fellow man, all animals, lots of plant life, (I doubt he could destroy cockroaches) and himself in the process but not totally destoy the world. Some life form would emerge.

Just because you believe that God will destroy the earth in his own time for his own reasons doesn't mean you want to see it happen in your lifetime.

My point WAS Pres. Bush is not the great satan in the middle east.

 

[tryreading]

I had never heard of JVI before you referenced him. I'm not impressed.

I'm not familiar with other fanatics of every religion who are wanting armageddon. Perhaps you could enlighten me. Just remember, referencing something, does not mean you are wanting it.

I don't really think man can bring about total destruction of the earth. He may be able to kill his fellow man, all animals, lots of plant life, (I doubt he could destroy cockroaches) and himself in the process but not totally destoy the world. Some life form would emerge.

Just because you believe that God will destroy the earth in his own time for his own reasons doesn't mean you want to see it happen in your lifetime.

My point WAS Pres. Bush is not the great satan in the middle east.

I'm not impressed with van Impe either, I think he's a jackass. I chose him for comic reasons.

I was referring to the end-times prophecy and the book of Revelations, and armageddon too. To certain religious prophecy. Its not my idea of a good time, but some people do want it. For instance, if one is a Christian, and the Bible he believes in tells him there will be an armageddon, and then the Messiah will return, why would he not want the process to begin? It is the word of his God. And if he's a fanatic, maybe he'd want to start things rolling himself.

This wouldn't only apply to Christianity though, but to any Messianic faith.

 

[PrimBabUB]

I'm not impressed with van Impe either, I think he's a jackass. I chose him for comic reasons.

I was referring to the end-times prophecy and the book of Revelations, and armageddon too. To certain religious prophecy. Its not my idea of a good time, but some people do want it. For instance, if one is a Christian, and the Bible he believes in tells him there will be an armageddon, and then the Messiah will return, why would he not want the process to begin? It is the word of his God. And if he's a fanatic, maybe he'd want to start things rolling himself.

This wouldn't only apply to Christianity though, but to any Messianic faith.

You are replying with opinion, supposition and 'what if'. I am more concerned with Ahmadinejab who, while he is a fanatic, is also the leader of a country with access to the weapons that could bring about a man made armageddon. I think there is a big differerence between him and your average fanatic who believes in a religion that has an apocalyptic ending to the world.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[tryreading]

You are replying with opinion, supposition and 'what if'. I am more concerned with Ahmadinejab who, while he is a fanatic, is also the leader of a country with access to the weapons that could bring about a man made armageddon. I think there is a big differerence between him and your average fanatic who believes in a religion that has an apocalyptic ending to the world.

Wouldn't you agree?

Ahmadinejab is a fanatic, you bet. And a lunatic. He would like to be the one to start the war, and he does have modern weapons and an army. I think he would be crushed if he tried it, though.

He has something ominous up his sleeve for tomorrow, August 22, he said the other day. Probably missle tests.

My point is that there are nuts of every messianic faith that want the end now. I am not talking about the average religious person.

 

[PrimBabUB]

Ahmadinejab is a fanatic, you bet. And a lunatic. He would like to be the one to start the war, and he does have modern weapons and an army. I think he would be crushed if he tried it, though.

He has something ominous up his sleeve for tomorrow, August 22, he said the other day. Probably missle tests.

My point is that there are nuts of every messianic faith that want the end now. I am not talking about the average religious person.

The only nuts I'm aware of that follow a messianic faith that want the end now are associated with Islam.

 

[Tinker]

Jesus himself said that he didn't even know when he would return. Only His Father in Heaven knows for sure the time and the day of His return.

We as humans can guess and prognosticate all we want. Anyone who actually gets the date and time right will do so more out of luck than any real knowledge of future events. All these nuts who are predicitng the end of the world every ten years or so, are just that, nuts. Nuts who are hoping to use the concept of self fullfilling prophecy to make the end come.

Which brings us to this Ahmadinejab fellow. He wants to see what he believes to be the first or second coming, depending on the specifics of his beliefs, in his life time. And he is willing to destroy himself and his entire country in an attempt to bring that about. Other than destroying a small chunk of land and maybe irradiating more land, that is about all he is going to do. He will turn his area of influence into a glass topped parking lot.

Believing the bible or not is not necessary to understand this 'parable'. Abraham was told by his God that he would be the father of a nation that would be as numerous as the stars in the sky and the sand of the seashore. His wife was supposedly too old to bear children so she told him to lay with one of her maidservants and have this child through her. So he did. And the maidservant had a son who was named Ishmael. Several years later, Sarah did in fact bear Abraham the son His God promised him. The maidservant had been playing up her role as the woman who had born Abraham the father of a nation. Sarah had a fit and cast her out. God heard the maid's cries and blessed her son with a nation as nurmerous as the stars in the sky and the sands of the seashore.

There are two lessons there. (Probably more, but I am only going to hit two.) One, if your God says he is going to do something, LET HIM DO IT. Don't try to stick your nose into it. It will only screw up what your God is trying to do. The other lessons is that when you do stick your nose wheree it doesn't belong, there will be consequences. A common belief is that the ultimate sons of Ishmael are the Nation of Islam and the ultimate sons of Isaac is the Nation of Isreal. Regardless of what God you believe in, know that the principles hold true. Keep your nose out of what your God is up to and your life will be better. If you God tells you to do something, then do it with all your heart. But don't take pre-emptive action, it will backfire. If for no other reason than Murphy's Laws in action.

THe concept of a self-fullfilling prophecy is another notion to follow. Will a person make a prophecy that the end of the world is on a certain day and then do everythig in his power to make sure it happens on that day.

 

[tryreading]

The only nuts I'm aware of that follow a messianic faith that want the end now are associated with Islam.

Kind of bigoted, aren't you? All messianic religions have a number of fanatics that would love to hasten the 'end times.'



Then there is Clyde Lott, a Mississippi revivalist preacher and cattle rancher. He is trying to raise a unique herd of red heifers to satisfy an obscure injunction in the Book of Numbers: the sacrifice of a blemish-free red heifer for purification rituals needed to pave the way for the messiah.

...

By contrast, Bill McCartney, a former University of Colorado football coach and co-founder of the evangelical Promise Keepers movement for men, which became huge in the 1990s, has had a devil of a time getting his own apocalyptic campaign off the ground.

It's called The Road to Jerusalem, and its mission is to convert Jews to Christianity — while there is still time.

"Our whole purpose is to hasten the end times," he said. "The Bible says Jews will be brought to jealousy when they see Christians and Jewish believers together as one — they'll want to be a part of that. That's going to signal Jesus' return."

...

Meanwhile, in what has become a spectacular annual routine, Jews — hoping to rebuild the Holy Temple destroyed by the Romans in AD 70 — attempt to haul the 6 1/2 -ton cornerstones by truck up to the Temple Mount, the site now occupied by the Dome of the Rock shrine. Each year, they are turned back by police.

Among those turned away is Gershon Solomon, spokesman for Jerusalem's Temple Institute. When the temple is built, he said, "Islam is over."


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/na...44938.story?page=1&coll=sfla-newsnation-front

 

[tryreading]

...Nuts who are hoping to use the concept of self fullfilling prophecy to make the end come.


THe concept of a self-fullfilling prophecy is another notion to follow. Will a person make a prophecy that the end of the world is on a certain day and then do everythig in his power to make sure it happens on that day.

If you are religious, you believe God has said the world will end a particular way, and the cause will be God, right? If you are not religious, like me, you believe people may cause an end, or there will be no end.

 

[Saboteur]

Sometime in every generation, there is at least one impromptu revival of Christians preaching a doctrine that the 'signs are right' and the 'end is near'. In previous decades, some groups actually sold everything they owned, gave it to the poor, and retreated to a figurative mountaintop to await the Second Coming and/or the Rapture depending on which they thought would occur first.

To date, all such hopeful groups have been disappointed. Others remain hopeful. Most are of the opinion that a time and date certain is not available to us.

Nevertheless, the current conflict in the Middle East has inevitably raised the level of expection on some religious fronts.

So what do you think? Are we seeing the beginnings of the end here? Or this is just one more war among wars that happen every year or so.? Or all that end times stuff is ust a lot of hooey?

ATTENTION: If we could discuss without personally insulting any person or group it would be very much appreciated.

I'm not religious.

I think the end is coming and it will be brutal. But it has nothing to do with anyone's god and everything to do with humans.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I'm not religious.

I think the end is coming and it will be brutal. But it has nothing to do with anyone's god and everything to do with humans.

A couple of questions purely to move the discussion along:

1) Do you see an Armageddon in this brutal ending? Any guesses on what that might look like or who will be involved?

2) How do you think the end will be accomplished?

3) And for those who are religious or at least believe in a 'higher power', do you think it all will be supernatural as imaged in the Bible? Or could God utilize man and his inventions/folllies to accomplish it?

 

[tryreading]

A couple of questions purely to move the discussion along:

1) Do you see an Armageddon in this brutal ending? Any guesses on what that might look like or who will be involved?

2) How do you think the end will be accomplished?

I think that it is inevitable that there will be a war, begun by fanatics, that will spread nuclear radiation and/or biological disease over a part of the earth, maybe over most of it. The world won't end, humanity won't end, but billions could die. I don't think this will happen any time soon, regardless of the current Middle East situation, which happens to seem relevant because of religious prophecy.

I'd like to see a meeting of nations that will begin a real talk over destruction of most of the world's nuclear weapons, and an agreement that any nation that might use an a-bomb will be retaliated against, in kind, by all of the nations party to the agreement. This might make even the riff-raff, South Korea Iran for example, think twice.