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Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

I have said for a while now that if you REALLY want to be environmentally conscience (in the current sense of the word) you should buy old, used fuel efficient cars.

Considering that you are (at least) deferring the energy cost and pollution output involved in recycling (and replacing) the cars, that's not such a bad idea.

Yeah, I never really understood that. Like a vegan who wears leather because "the animal is already dead."

... in the end, the best I can surmise is that they are just against everything.

"Back in the day" I used to be "against everything" (well, except for the military, but that was only because I was in it) and when we used to hold protests, you got food, drink, dope, fun, entertainment, and sex. Today's "protests" come up short on all six counts.

Colour me "Flip-flop" if you want to, but, today, I no longer "protest". (Which, of course, doesn't mean that I'm not "politically active", nor does it mean that I am "silent".)
 
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the omg.... :facepalm#1:

Fossil Fuels: a natural fuel such as coal or gas, formed in the geological past from the remains of living organisms.​


You have to be the most uninformed poster on this topic I've ever seen.

You don't seem to understand, the guy is a cornucopean who believes that petroleum is infinite, and was given by GOD to mankind, and that all oil wells are constantly replenishing from a virtually infinite source deep within "God's Earth"...by God Himself.

Cornucopeanist petroleum conspiracy theorists believe that leftist media is covering up "the truth" about oil, that it is overwhelmingly abiogenic and infinite.

You can shove facts about it under his nose all day long, and you can expect "FAKE NOOZ" as a response.
 
You don't seem to understand, the guy is a cornucopean who believes that petroleum is infinite, and was given by GOD to mankind, and that all oil wells are constantly replenishing from a virtually infinite source deep within "God's Earth"...by God Himself.

Cornucopeanist petroleum conspiracy theorists believe that leftist media is covering up "the truth" about oil, that it is overwhelmingly abiogenic and infinite.

You can shove facts about it under his nose all day long, and you can expect "FAKE NOOZ" as a response.

Some people do need "minders" lest they wander out into traffic on the freeway.
 
OK, so at 80 ft[SUP]2[/SUP] per vehicle, how many ft[SUP]2[/SUP] of panels would you need to meet the needs of an apartment building with 100 units where the average unit has 1.5 vehicles?

By my simple math that works out to 12,000 ft[SUP]2[/SUP].



True, like shutting down most of the automobile and automobile related industries.



Indeed, one of the unintended consequences of "improving traffic flow" is an increase in traffic volume.



It's called a "cost of doing business".



"Flat lot" parking is a dying breed.



Yep, and buses produce even more. Strangely enough, I haven't seen any studies on "pollution per ACTUAL passenger mile" studies. What I have seen are studies that run along the lines of "A 40 passenger bus produces 20 times more pollution per mile than a car does, but that actually works out to one half the pollution because the bus carries 40 times as many passengers as a car does.".

In reality, if the bus is only carrying one passenger, then the bus produces 40 times as much "pollution per ACTUAL passenger mile" than does a car with only the driver in it.

Unfortunately the numbers for "pollution per ACTUAL passenger mile" are both difficult to calculate and don't look all that good in debates over the "evils of the car".



I live about 1.5 miles from the nearest store. Health benefits be damned, I'm not going to carry 40 pounds of groceries 1.5 miles.



Have you ever lived in the downtown core of a major city? Just going grocery shopping can prove to be a major expedition if you do.

One great thing is you can use existing infrastructure that a lane only used for buses can transport a lot more people than a lane for cars. It also for example a lot cheaper to build bike lanes than roads for cars.

In China you already have city trains that can transport 300 people without railway tracks or power lines.

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...el-zhuzhou-hyper-loop-elon-musk-a7770786.html

While nearly half of the world's municipial buses are expected to be electric by 2025.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...blic-transport-renewable-energy-a8190651.html
 
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One great thing is you can use existing infrastructure that a lane only used for buses can transport a lot more people than a lane for cars. It also for example a lot cheaper to build bike lanes than roads for cars.

In China you already have city trains that can transport 300 people without railway tracks or power lines.

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...el-zhuzhou-hyper-loop-elon-musk-a7770786.html

While nearly half of the world's municipial buses are expected to be electric by 2025.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...blic-transport-renewable-energy-a8190651.html

Have you ever tried riding your bike to work when there is a couple of inches of snow on the ground?
 
Solar only works in the day. Wind blows harder during the daylight hours and blows harder mid day. And at times there are clouds and the wind does not blow. Unless they have HUGE storage capacity wind and solar are not going to cover our energy needs at night or during lack of wind or during cloud cover. So we will STILL need fossil fuel backup generation. We aren't going to see the demise of fossil fuels anytime soon.
 
Have you ever tried riding your bike to work when there is a couple of inches of snow on the ground?

It is a lot better but still bad idea to take a bike without winter tires than a car without winter tires than it's snowy and icy. While thankfully you have winter tires for both cars and bikes. While at the same time you of course need to plow and put sand and salt on bikeroads just like you need to do with car roads.
 
Solar only works in the day. Wind blows harder during the daylight hours and blows harder mid day. And at times there are clouds and the wind does not blow. Unless they have HUGE storage capacity wind and solar are not going to cover our energy needs at night or during lack of wind or during cloud cover. So we will STILL need fossil fuel backup generation. We aren't going to see the demise of fossil fuels anytime soon.

You are seing a rapid advancement in battery storage. Like for example Tesla's giant battery in Australia have proven to be very effective.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/how-the...-the-heartbeat-of-australias-main-grid-11288/

You also for example have concentrated solar power plants with thermal storage, pump storage hydropower and regular hydropower and sustainable biopower that can regulate demands.
 
It is a lot better but still bad idea to take a bike without winter tires than a car without winter tires than it's snowy and icy. While thankfully you have winter tires for both cars and bikes. While at the same time you of course need to plow and put sand and salt on bikeroads just like you need to do with car roads.

I live approximately 3/4 mile from a main (read as "gets plowed") road and have to travel approximately 60 miles (round trip) to attend to business every second week (primarily I work from home so I don't have to "commute").

3/4s of a mile of snowdrifts plus 60 miles of plowed (but definitely NOT level [some grades are better than 30% and over 300']) is a real "deal breaker" as far as I am concerned.

The last place where I worked (away from home) was over 2 miles from the nearest bus stop and (because of the unpredictable effects of the weather on public transit) I had to leave home at least 1 1/2 hour early in order to ensure timely arrival (the actual bus ride took around 15 minutes).
 
it means end of states gas-stations : KSA, "Russia", all Gulf states , etc. how our world without states gas-stations will be look like?



1458982466856.jpg

https://www.forbes.com/sites/domini...ost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/#1d27268b4ff2

Time for Trump to send his Italian and Russian Mafia friends in to bomb factories which make solar panels. He won't, of course, but that's what he would love to do and call it MAGA. :mrgreen:
 
You are seing a rapid advancement in battery storage. Like for example Tesla's giant battery in Australia have proven to be very effective.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/how-the...-the-heartbeat-of-australias-main-grid-11288/

You also for example have concentrated solar power plants with thermal storage, pump storage hydropower and regular hydropower and sustainable biopower that can regulate demands.
I think the Flow Battery has the most promise. You could conceivably have filling stations that pump the spent electrolyte out and recharge it and pump it into the next car. The electrolyte can be salt water. Google up the Quant Car. It's a 920 hp Flow Battery concept car.Has a range of about 350 miles. Pretty slick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWaOEldsJ9Q.
 
I think the Flow Battery has the most promise. You could conceivably have filling stations that pump the spent electrolyte out and recharge it and pump it into the next car. The electrolyte can be salt water. Google up the Quant Car. It's a 920 hp Flow Battery concept car.Has a range of about 350 miles. Pretty slick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWaOEldsJ9Q.

I think people need to widen their ideas of what a battery is.
A battery is an energy storage device.
A normal vehicle running on fuel made from electricity is still a battery powered vehicle.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/power-to-liquids/
The technology that people pick up is the one that does the job as transparently as possible.
The simplest path is to not change all the cars, trucks, planes and ships, but to change how we make the fuel.
At some point the cost for a refinery to make their own fuel, will be less than making fuel from oil.
So far the main limitation, seems to be that making long chain hydrocarbons with catalyst, tend to make only high octane fuels.
I suspect that most vehicles can have their software altered to take greater advantage of only premium fuel.
 
Government handouts have nothing to do with the cost of ggoods sold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A product that can't stand on its own without government subsidies is a scam.
 
I live approximately 3/4 mile from a main (read as "gets plowed") road and have to travel approximately 60 miles (round trip) to attend to business every second week (primarily I work from home so I don't have to "commute").

3/4s of a mile of snowdrifts plus 60 miles of plowed (but definitely NOT level [some grades are better than 30% and over 300']) is a real "deal breaker" as far as I am concerned.

The last place where I worked (away from home) was over 2 miles from the nearest bus stop and (because of the unpredictable effects of the weather on public transit) I had to leave home at least 1 1/2 hour early in order to ensure timely arrival (the actual bus ride took around 15 minutes).

Bike is not a solution for all transport and as you write cities can today lack a good public transport system. While you have a lot of positive examples around the world that you can build good public transport systems and also make it easier for people to use bikes for commuting.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-top-10-best-public-transit-systems-in-the-world.html

Copenhagen City of Cyclists - facts and figures 2017 - Cycling Embassy of Denmark : Cycling Embassy of Denmark
 
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A product that can't stand on its own without government subsidies is a scam.

The energy sector have never been a free market. For example that global subsidies to fossil fuel are hundreds of billions of dollars each year. Much more than the subsidies to renewable energy.

https://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2...nsumption-subsidies-are-down-but-not-out.html

Western governments have also heavily involved in the Middle East for many decades to protect the flow of cheap oil, with for example support of brutal dictators and costly wars. The development of nuclear power was also dependent on massive support from the government.

Fossil fuels companies also use the power of government to take over private land for their coal mines and pipelines. That thousands of people have been forced from their homes just in Germany because of coal mining.

German Court to Rule on Property Rights in Brown Coal Mining Dispute - SPIEGEL ONLINE

That at the same time you have massive social costs from the devasting effects of climate change and also toxic pollutants from fossil fuels.

Governments support of renewable energy have been very successful because it have lead to economies of scale and technology development so that you have seen a drastic reduction in cost of renewable energy.
 
I think the Flow Battery has the most promise. You could conceivably have filling stations that pump the spent electrolyte out and recharge it and pump it into the next car. The electrolyte can be salt water. Google up the Quant Car. It's a 920 hp Flow Battery concept car.Has a range of about 350 miles. Pretty slick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWaOEldsJ9Q.

I found this Wiki article that its an intersting concept while you need more proof of concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NanoFlowcell

This is also an intersting video about the advancement of battery technology.

 
I think the Flow Battery has the most promise. You could conceivably have filling stations that pump the spent electrolyte out and recharge it and pump it into the next car. The electrolyte can be salt water. Google up the Quant Car. It's a 920 hp Flow Battery concept car.Has a range of about 350 miles. Pretty slick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWaOEldsJ9Q.

Why not try reading


PS - Your "standard fuel tank" holds around 77 litres of fuel, the "prototype" of the "Quant Car" has fuel tanks that hold 336 litres of "electrolytes".
 
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The energy sector have never been a free market. For example that global subsidies to fossil fuel are hundreds of billions of dollars each year. Much more than the subsidies to renewable energy.

https://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2...nsumption-subsidies-are-down-but-not-out.html

Western governments have also heavily involved in the Middle East for many decades to protect the flow of cheap oil, with for example support of brutal dictators and costly wars. The development of nuclear power was also dependent on massive support from the government.

Fossil fuels companies also use the power of government to take over private land for their coal mines and pipelines. That thousands of people have been forced from their homes just in Germany because of coal mining.

German Court to Rule on Property Rights in Brown Coal Mining Dispute - SPIEGEL ONLINE

That at the same time you have massive social costs from the devasting effects of climate change and also toxic pollutants from fossil fuels.

Governments support of renewable energy have been very successful because it have lead to economies of scale and technology development so that you have seen a drastic reduction in cost of renewable energy.

Tax breaks are not handouts. Government doesn't prop up the energy industry....they can exist without handouts unlike "renewables". Thanks for playing though.
 
Tax breaks are not handouts.

I know - unless some country other than the United States of America is handing them out, in which case they are "subsidies" and "unfair trading practices". And "Price Stabilization Payments" are not subsidies either (unless some country other than the United States of America is making them.)
 
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