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Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

Litwin

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it means end of states gas-stations : KSA, "Russia", all Gulf states , etc. how our world without states gas-stations will be look like?

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020,
The organisation – which has more than 150 member countries – says the cost of generating power from onshore wind has fallen by around 23% since 2010 while the cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity has fallen by 73% in that time. With further price falls expected for these and other green energy options, IRENA says all renewable energy technologies should be competitive on price with fossil fuels by 2020.Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

1458982466856.jpg

https://www.forbes.com/sites/domini...ost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/#1d27268b4ff2
 
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gfm7175

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Litwin

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For starters, read through the link that you are peddling... The article says "competitive on price", NOT that they will be "cheaper"...

which means states gas-stations´s kaput
 

gfm7175

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its means end of states gas-stations : KSA, "Russia", all Gulf states , etc. how our world without states gas-stations will be look like?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/domini...ost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/#1d27268b4ff2

Secondly, nobody uses fossils for fuel. They don't burn very well... I believe you are referring to things such as coal, oil, and natural gas though. The terminology "renewable energy" is also falsely applied, because both oil and natural gas are quite renewable sources of energy.

And no, there will be no end to gas stations, at least not for a very long time. Wind/Solar/Hydro (people always forget about hydro)/etc. simply don't produce near enough energy (and take up more space to produce the same amount of energy) to fully replace coal/oil/natural gas... One can't charge an electric car up in two minutes, but one can easily fill up a gas tank in two minutes. Gasoline vehicles are much more convenient for many people, including myself.
 

poweRob

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Secondly, nobody uses fossils for fuel. They don't burn very well... I believe you are referring to things such as coal, oil, and natural gas though.

the omg.... :facepalm#1:

Fossil Fuels: a natural fuel such as coal or gas, formed in the geological past from the remains of living organisms.​

The terminology "renewable energy" is also falsely applied, because both oil and natural gas are quite renewable sources of energy.

The omg.... :facepalm#2:

Renewable energy: Renewable energy is energy that is collected from renewable resources, which are naturally replenished on a human timescale, such as sunlight, wind, rain, tides, waves, and geothermal heat.​

And no, there will be no end to gas stations, at least not for a very long time. Wind/Solar/Hydro (people always forget about hydro)/etc. simply don't produce near enough energy (and take up more space to produce the same amount of energy) to fully replace coal/oil/natural gas... One can't charge an electric car up in two minutes, but one can easily fill up a gas tank in two minutes. Gasoline vehicles are much more convenient for many people, including myself.

World’s fastest EV charger gives drivers 120 miles in 8 minutes

You have to be the most uninformed poster on this topic I've ever seen.
 
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Hawkeye10

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An apples to apples comparison must include also all of the infrastructure that solar and wind power require, the building and the maintenance,
 

poweRob

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An apples to apples comparison must include also all of the infrastructure that solar and wind power require, the building and the maintenance,

Like what for instance? What infrastructure does solar and wind require above and beyond that you are implying needs more building and maintenance?
 
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gfm7175

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the omg.... :facepalm#1:

Fossil Fuels: a natural fuel such as coal or gas, formed in the geological past from the remains of living organisms.​
Coal may very slightly consist of some fossils, but oil and natural gas do not consist of fossils...

The omg.... :facepalm#2:

Renewable energy: Renewable energy is energy that is collected from renewable resources, which are naturally replenished on a human timescale, such as sunlight, wind, rain, tides, waves, and geothermal heat.​
Oil and Natural Gas are naturally replenished... Did you not know that?

Did you even read the article that you quickly googled up and linked? It specifically states that cars are not ready to handle it yet... It is also obviously NOT readily available yet, like gasoline and gas powered vehicles are, and MUCH more expensive... Plus, 120 miles in 8 minutes is NOT anywhere near 300+ miles in 1-2 minutes...

Reading beyond the headline and using your own reasoning skills are smart things to do... ;)

You have to be the most uninformed poster on this topic I've ever seen.
Inversion Fallacy... Maybe you should try to use your OWN reasoning skills sometime instead of thoughtlessly googling links in which the headline supports your assertions... Using one's own reasoning skills is such a lost art in these tech savvy days...
 

Litwin

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Secondly, nobody uses fossils for fuel. They don't burn very well... I believe you are referring to things such as coal, oil, and natural gas though. The terminology "renewable energy" is also falsely applied, because both oil and natural gas are quite renewable sources of energy.

And no, there will be no end to gas stations, at least not for a very long time. Wind/Solar/Hydro (people always forget about hydro)/etc. simply don't produce near enough energy (and take up more space to produce the same amount of energy) to fully replace coal/oil/natural gas... One can't charge an electric car up in two minutes, but one can easily fill up a gas tank in two minutes. Gasoline vehicles are much more convenient for many people, including myself.

"oil and natural gas are quite renewable sources of energy" can you write more , why do you think so?

" convenient for many people, including myself." you are an old man for sure, have you ever been driving an electric car ?
 

TU Curmudgeon

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An apples to apples comparison must include also all of the infrastructure that solar and wind power require, the building and the maintenance,

No, NO - NO!

You can't do that, it makes it difficult to show how something that costs "X+Y" is cheaper than something that costs "A+B" simply because "X" is less than "A". (We won't go into how inconvenient it is to attempt to prove that "X+Y" is cheaper than something that costs "A+B" when "B" is substantially more than "Y" regardless of whether "A" is less than "X".)
 

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The problem with saying that cheap renewable energy will be around does not necessarily mean that
Gas stations will go away.
I think it will simply mean that the fuel sold at those stations may be carbon neutral man made fuels,
which will be used as a storage medium for all of that renewable energy.
The real problems with renewable s storage and density, they can provide the energy,
but it may not be when and in the quantity you need.
Also renewable energy is not currently compatible, with vast amounts of our transport infrastructure.
It is unlikely that we will fly planes across oceans with batteries.
or move transport ships across the oceans. Nature evolved the most practical way to store energy, hydrocarbons.
People talk about things like getting rid of gas stations without considering the enormous changes to infrastructure
required to shift that amount of energy use to some other method.
The simple fact is that, something will need to be as good or better than what we have now to get broad buy in
from the general public.
A Good example would be flat screen TVs, they were so clearly better, that when the price dropped, people changed
almost overnight.
 

poweRob

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Coal may very slightly consist of some fossils, but oil and natural gas do not consist of fossils...

Fossil fuels are made from living organisms of the past. Its not just tapping into a dinosaur skeleton. It's biological breakdowns.

Oil and Natural Gas are naturally replenished... Did you not know that?

JFC read the definitions. Replenished IN HUMAN TIME SCALE. Not replenished over eons. So no, it is not "renewable" by the very definition of "renewable".

Did you even read the article that you quickly googled up and linked? It specifically states that cars are not ready to handle it yet... It is also obviously NOT readily available yet, like gasoline and gas powered vehicles are, and MUCH more expensive... Plus, 120 miles in 8 minutes is NOT anywhere near 300+ miles in 1-2 minutes...

Reading beyond the headline and using your own reasoning skills are smart things to do... ;)

Inversion Fallacy... Maybe you should try to use your OWN reasoning skills sometime instead of thoughtlessly googling links in which the headline supports your assertions... Using one's own reasoning skills is such a lost art in these tech savvy days...

Other than truckers... pretty much nobody drives 300 miles every day. :roll:

holy cow it's like teaching kindergarten. Except they'd actually learn.
 

gfm7175

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"oil and natural gas are quite renewable sources of energy" can you write more , why do you think so?
Because they are both naturally formed continuously within the Earth... Also, we can synthesize them from non-biological materials...

" convenient for many people, including myself." you are an old man for sure, have you ever been driving an electric car ?
Bulverism Fallacy.

Electric cars simply aren't convenient for many people and how they drive... Additionally, some of us need to haul heavy loads with big pickup trucks... Not all of us are city dwellers ya know...
 

Hawkeye10

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No, NO - NO!

You can't do that, it makes it difficult to show how something that costs "X+Y" is cheaper than something that costs "A+B" simply because "X" is less than "A". (We won't go into how inconvenient it is to attempt to prove that "X+Y" is cheaper than something that costs "A+B" when "B" is substantially more than "Y" regardless of whether "A" is less than "X".)

We cant be honest in this society anymore, which according to Jordan Peterson is our bedrock problem, it is why we are in such decline.
 

Litwin

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Because they are both naturally formed continuously within the Earth... Also, we can synthesize them from non-biological materials...


Bulverism Fallacy.

Electric cars simply aren't convenient for many people and how they drive... Additionally, some of us need to haul heavy loads with big pickup trucks... Not all of us are city dwellers ya know...

Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US (In Revenue)
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/09/tesla-model-3-becomes-1-best-selling-car-in-the-us/
 

TU Curmudgeon

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Like what for instance? What infrastructure does solar and wind require above and beyond that you are implying needs more building and maintenance?

Both solar and wind require a means of storing the extra energy developed during "high input" stages (i.e during the daytime or when the wind is blowing) for use during "low input" stages" (i.e. at night or when the wind is not blowing).

Additionally, the existing electric grid is incapable of handling the additional power load required to transmit the power from point of generation to point of consumption.

Additionally, some provision has to be made for people like myself who (occasionally [about 8 trips per year]) travel around 300 miles (one way) for personal reasons (we won't bother about the 1,500+ pounds of personal kit that goes with me when I do. Trying to do that in a Chevy Bolt is simply asking for failure.

We won't even go into the number of long-distance, over the road, semi-trailer tractors that are available as all electric models because I consider the fact that all of them are equipped with Olympic sized swimming pools to be ecologically unsound.
 

TU Curmudgeon

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Coal may very slightly consist of some fossils, but oil and natural gas do not consist of fossils...

Gosh, and duckboards aren't made out of ducks nor are henhouses made out of hens.

Oil and Natural Gas are naturally replenished... Did you not know that?

Many people "know" things that simply aren't true. Did YOU know that?

Given the known amount of oil, did you know that that would mean that if it was being created then it was being created at around 6,000 barrels of (usable) oil PER YEAR. This works out to approximately 0.0001% of the DAILY oil consumption in the US.


Did you even read the article that you quickly googled up and linked? It specifically states that cars are not ready to handle it yet... It is also obviously NOT readily available yet, like gasoline and gas powered vehicles are, and MUCH more expensive... Plus, 120 miles in 8 minutes is NOT anywhere near 300+ miles in 1-2 minutes...

The possibility of being able to recharge you electric vehicle in about the same time that it takes to fill up your gas tank now is there, so is the increase in range.

Using one's own reasoning skills is such a lost art in these tech savvy days...

I know, sad isn't it.

Why some people are so dumb as to believe things as silly as Abiogenic Generation.
 

poweRob

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Both solar and wind require a means of storing the extra energy developed during "high input" stages (i.e during the daytime or when the wind is blowing) for use during "low input" stages" (i.e. at night or when the wind is not blowing).

It doesn't need it now and it's working just fine. Perhaps if 100% of our energy were derived from solar and wind but that's not the argument at this point.

Additionally, the existing electric grid is incapable of handling the additional power load required to transmit the power from point of generation to point of consumption.

The grid is handling 12% renewable energy right now and delivering it to pretty much everyone. It can be improve to better smart grid tech but the grid is there already and doing it's job.

Additionally, some provision has to be made for people like myself who (occasionally [about 8 trips per year]) travel around 300 miles (one way) for personal reasons (we won't bother about the 1,500+ pounds of personal kit that goes with me when I do. Trying to do that in a Chevy Bolt is simply asking for failure.

We won't even go into the number of long-distance, over the road, semi-trailer tractors that are available as all electric models because I consider the fact that all of them are equipped with Olympic sized swimming pools to be ecologically unsound.

So other than those 8 drives... the rest of your life is within short distance right?
 

Bullseye

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poweRob

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Gosh, and duckboards aren't made out of ducks nor are henhouses made out of hens.

Alright.. not THAT is ****ing hilarious. Don't you use chickens to make chicken wire?
 
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TU Curmudgeon

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Fossil fuels are made from living organisms of the past.

Not true. God created those so-called "fossil" fuels. The Bible says so.

Its not just tapping into a dinosaur skeleton.

Quite right, not only that but it couldn't be because you won't find any mention of those so-called "dinosaurs" in The Bible.

It's biological breakdowns.

No, it's the way that God Created The Universe to be. Any reference to any so-called "breakdown" in the way that God Created the Universe is blasphemy.

JFC read the definitions. Replenished IN HUMAN TIME SCALE. Not replenished over eons. So no, it is not "renewable" by the very definition of "renewable".

When you are dealing with God's Most Perfect Creation, then you have to use God's Definition and God doesn't do things in a so-called "human" timescale. I know because The Bible doesn't say He does.

Other than truckers... pretty much nobody drives 300 miles every day.

So what, If I want to drive to Yakima for a weekend, do you think that I should start on Thursday, get halfway, stop overnight to recharge my vehicle, drive the other half way on Friday, and then do what I intended to do - or would it make more sense for me to simply drive to Yakima on Friday and leave on Monday in order to be home on Monday?

holy cow it's like teaching kindergarten. Except they'd actually learn.

Your problem is that you are attempting to teach out of the WRONG books.

You should be drawing all of your lessons from The Good Book and not out of any of those so-called "science" books.

I know that all of this is true because one of Mr. Trump's disciples told me so.
 

TU Curmudgeon

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Because they are both naturally formed continuously within the Earth... Also, we can synthesize them from non-biological materials...


Bulverism Fallacy.

Electric cars simply aren't convenient for many people and how they drive... Additionally, some of us need to haul heavy loads with big pickup trucks... Not all of us are city dwellers ya know...

Wouldn't the "logical" solution be to get a longer extension cord?
 

poweRob

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No, it's the way that God Created The Universe to be. Any reference to any so-called "breakdown" in the way that God Created the Universe is blasphemy.

I think God had a breakdown the day he made many of his religious followers.
 
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