• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

Even Shell and GE have to accept the decline in fossil fuels and the great potential in renewable energy.

"Royal Dutch Shell is looking to slash up to 40 per cent off the cost of producing oil and gas in a major drive to save cash so it can overhaul its business and focus more on renewable energy and power markets, sources told Reuters.

Shell's new cost-cutting review, known internally as Project Reshape and expected to be completed this year, will affect its three main divisions and any savings will come on top of a $4 billion US target set in the wake of the COVID-19 crisis.

Reducing costs is vital for Shell's plans to move into the power sector and renewables where margins are relatively low. Competition is also likely to intensify with utilities and rival oil firms including BP and Total all battling for market share as economies around the world go green."



There also Airbus is planing for a transition towards hydrogen and other alternative fuels for airplanes.

Just remember what I said about how oil companies do not sell oil, but finished fuel products,
and that how at some point the greater profits will be with making their own carbon neutral feedstock
from electricity, water and atmospheric CO2.
What you cite, is the type of movements expected, Shell is not going into batteries,
when they say they are entering the renewable market!
 
Just remember what I said about how oil companies do not sell oil, but finished fuel products,
and that how at some point the greater profits will be with making their own carbon neutral feedstock
from electricity, water and atmospheric CO2.
What you cite, is the type of movements expected, Shell is not going into batteries,
when they say they are entering the renewable market!

Shell is investing in battery technology.

"We’re proud to have partnered with sonnen, a world leading manufacturer of battery storage and member of the Shell family. This partnership offers customers with solar panels a complete battery storage solution that helps to reduce their electricity bills."


Oil companies like Shell are also reducing their numbers of refineries and focusing on bio fuels.

"Besides cutting costs at its downstream retail business, Shell is pressing ahead with plans to reduce the number of its oil refineries to 10 from 17 last year. It has already agreed to sell three.

The review of refining operations also includes finding ways to sharply increase the production of low-carbon fuels such as biofuels, chemicals and lubricants. That could be done by using low-carbon raw materials such as cooking oil, one source said."


 
Shell is investing in battery technology.

"We’re proud to have partnered with sonnen, a world leading manufacturer of battery storage and member of the Shell family. This partnership offers customers with solar panels a complete battery storage solution that helps to reduce their electricity bills."


Oil companies like Shell are also reducing their numbers of refineries and focusing on bio fuels.

"Besides cutting costs at its downstream retail business, Shell is pressing ahead with plans to reduce the number of its oil refineries to 10 from 17 last year. It has already agreed to sell three.

The review of refining operations also includes finding ways to sharply increase the production of low-carbon fuels such as biofuels, chemicals and lubricants. That could be done by using low-carbon raw materials such as cooking oil, one source said."


They are decommissioning older refineries that are too expensive to upgrade, and increasing the capacity of existing refineries.
 
How Green Are Electric Cars?
  • Date: 29/09/20

  • Press Release, Global Warming Policy Foundation
Debate over environmental impacts continues



How green are electric cars? Are they really greener and more environmentally friendly than the cleanest conventional cars? That’s a question that is dividing opinion, even among green campaigners.

Environmental activist George Monbiot has warned that electric cars won’t solve the problems of car pollution and may even “create another environmental disaster.”
Recently Auke Hoekstra and Professor Maarten Steinbuch published a study that claims electric vehicles already emit less than half the CO2 of combustion engine vehicles.
Professor Gautam Kalghatgi wrote a critique of this new study, claiming that the advantages of electric vehicles were smaller. We approached Mr Hoekstra with a request to react to this criticism. Professor Kalghatgi in turn reacted to that and we gave Mr Hoekstra the final word.
Professor Gautam Kalghatgi says that since much of the world’s electricity comes from fossil fuels, carbon dioxide emissions are simply being moved from driving electric cars to charging their batteries. And once the impact of obtaining the resources required to build electric cars is taken into account, he thinks they may even be worse for the environment.
But opinions among researchers are divided. A leading proponent of electric cars, Auke Hoekstra of the Technical University of Eindhoven, maintains that the environmental disadvantages of fossil-fuelled cars outweigh their advantages.
The different views of Kalghatgi and Hoekstra are set out in a new Open Debate paper, published by the Global Warming Policy Foundation today.
At the Global Warming Policy Foundation we encourage robust academic discussion and in that light we present the entire exchange so readers can draw their own conclusions.
GWPF director Dr Benny Peiser said:
“The GWPF has no collective view on this question, but we are keen to encourage and foster a culture of open and fact-based discussions on all aspects of climate and energy policy. This is why we are very pleased to be publishing this debate between two eminent researchers.”

How Green Are Electric Cars? (PDF)
 
How Green Are Electric Cars?
  • Date: 29/09/20

  • Press Release, Global Warming Policy Foundation
Debate over environmental impacts continues



How green are electric cars? Are they really greener and more environmentally friendly than the cleanest conventional cars? That’s a question that is dividing opinion, even among green campaigners.

Environmental activist George Monbiot has warned that electric cars won’t solve the problems of car pollution and may even “create another environmental disaster.”
Recently Auke Hoekstra and Professor Maarten Steinbuch published a study that claims electric vehicles already emit less than half the CO2 of combustion engine vehicles.
Professor Gautam Kalghatgi wrote a critique of this new study, claiming that the advantages of electric vehicles were smaller. We approached Mr Hoekstra with a request to react to this criticism. Professor Kalghatgi in turn reacted to that and we gave Mr Hoekstra the final word.
Professor Gautam Kalghatgi says that since much of the world’s electricity comes from fossil fuels, carbon dioxide emissions are simply being moved from driving electric cars to charging their batteries. And once the impact of obtaining the resources required to build electric cars is taken into account, he thinks they may even be worse for the environment.
But opinions among researchers are divided. A leading proponent of electric cars, Auke Hoekstra of the Technical University of Eindhoven, maintains that the environmental disadvantages of fossil-fuelled cars outweigh their advantages.
The different views of Kalghatgi and Hoekstra are set out in a new Open Debate paper, published by the Global Warming Policy Foundation today.
At the Global Warming Policy Foundation we encourage robust academic discussion and in that light we present the entire exchange so readers can draw their own conclusions.
GWPF director Dr Benny Peiser said:
“The GWPF has no collective view on this question, but we are keen to encourage and foster a culture of open and fact-based discussions on all aspects of climate and energy policy. This is why we are very pleased to be publishing this debate between two eminent researchers.”

How Green Are Electric Cars? (PDF)

Electric cars leads to less C02 emission even in worst case scenario.

"In the worst case scenario, an electric car with a battery produced in China and driven in Poland still emits 22% less CO2 than diesel and 28% less than petrol. And in the best case scenario, an electric car with a battery produced in Sweden and driven in Sweden can emit 80% less CO2 than diesel and 81% less than petrol.

We also see that electric cars will reduce CO2 emissions four-fold by 2030 thanks to an EU grid relying more and more on renewables."



There even US under a president that promise to save the coal industry gets more power from renewables than coal.

 
They are decommissioning older refineries that are too expensive to upgrade, and increasing the capacity of existing refineries.

Oil companies are also abandoning investments in existing refineries.

Swedish oil refinery makes U-turn on controversial expansion bid - The Local

While instead investing in hydrogen, wind power and electric mobility.


There oil workers also acknowledge that the future is in renewable energy.

 
Electric cars leads to less C02 emission even in worst case scenario.

"In the worst case scenario, an electric car with a battery produced in China and driven in Poland still emits 22% less CO2 than diesel and 28% less than petrol. And in the best case scenario, an electric car with a battery produced in Sweden and driven in Sweden can emit 80% less CO2 than diesel and 81% less than petrol.

We also see that electric cars will reduce CO2 emissions four-fold by 2030 thanks to an EU grid relying more and more on renewables."



There even US under a president that promise to save the coal industry gets more power from renewables than coal.

You like to talk about the ecological footprint of coal and other fossil fuels.

Have you ever taken a moment to look into the ecological impact of mining the metals for the electric car batteries, or are you a professional hypocrite?
 
California’s Looming ‘Green New Car Wreck’
The numbers don’t pencil out for the future where just 25% of cars in California would be electric. On September 23, California Gov. Gavin Newsom issued an executive order that will ban the sale of gasoline-powered cars in the Golden State by 2035. Ignoring the hard lessons of this past summer, when California’s solar- and…
Continue reading →
 
Sustainability
COVID Boosts Private Vehicles Over “Sustainable Mobility”
Guest “silver lining to dark cloud” by David Middleton Sep 29, 2020Covid Causing Shift From Public Transport To CarsDave KeatingContributor Energy The Coronavirus pandemic is causing people to shun public transport in favor of private cars in Germany, according to a report from the German Aerospace Center. In a survey conducted by the center’s Institute for Transport Research…
 
California’s Looming ‘Green New Car Wreck’
The numbers don’t pencil out for the future where just 25% of cars in California would be electric. On September 23, California Gov. Gavin Newsom issued an executive order that will ban the sale of gasoline-powered cars in the Golden State by 2035. Ignoring the hard lessons of this past summer, when California’s solar- and…
Continue reading →

Almost half new cars are already pure electric in Norway.


The battery capacity of electric car batteries are also already ten times the daily commute, so electric car batteries can also be used for energy storage.

 
You like to talk about the ecological footprint of coal and other fossil fuels.

Have you ever taken a moment to look into the ecological impact of mining the metals for the electric car batteries, or are you a professional hypocrite?

The environmental impact are tiny compared that of fossil fuels. That you for example have 500 000 swimmingpools of toxic waste just a long one Canadian river.


Also a lot are done to reduce the social and environmental impact of electric cars. There this will also put pressure on fossil fuel companies and other companies to start caring about social and environmental then they for example buy cobalt from Kongo.

 
Tens Of Thousands Of Automotive Jobs On The Brink, Climate Policy Hammers Once Mighty German Auto Industry
By P Gosselin on 3. October 2020

Share this...
Share on FacebookTweet about this on Twitter
The future for the backbone of the German economy is looking bleak. A look at the impacts of climate policy on the German car industry.
===============================================
By AR Göhring at EIKE
(Text translated/edited by P. Gosselin)
Not only at Daimler, Volkswagen and others, but elsewhere the working people have to fear for their jobs after Brussels and Berlin have declared war on Germany’s most important industry. Now the automotive supply chain is also being hard hit. . . .
 
Tens Of Thousands Of Automotive Jobs On The Brink, Climate Policy Hammers Once Mighty German Auto Industry
By P Gosselin on 3. October 2020

Share this...
Share on FacebookTweet about this on Twitter
The future for the backbone of the German economy is looking bleak. A look at the impacts of climate policy on the German car industry.
===============================================
By AR Göhring at EIKE
(Text translated/edited by P. Gosselin)
Not only at Daimler, Volkswagen and others, but elsewhere the working people have to fear for their jobs after Brussels and Berlin have declared war on Germany’s most important industry. Now the automotive supply chain is also being hard hit. . . .

German car companies need to be part of the transition towards electric cars to stay competitive.


There German car makers also starting to realize that.



 
Renewables and electric cars are now sound investments.

Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally - 24/7 Wall St.

Investing in renewable energy gets a lot of attention for being the “right thing” to do to save the planet from the effects of climate change. Rarely, however, is it praised as a sound economic investment. That could be changing.
...
"Our analysis indicates that for the same capital outlay today, new wind and solar-energy projects in tandem with battery electric vehicles (EVs) will produce 6x-7x more useful energy at the wheels than will oil at $60/[barrel] for gasoline-powered LDVs, and 3x-4x more than will oil at $60/[barrel] for LDVs running on diesel.” (EVs are defined as all-electric vehicles, not hybrids, plugin or otherwise.)

California's rolling blackouts should be an eye opener.

Bad policies with incompetent planning.
 
California's rolling blackouts should be an eye opener.

Bad policies with incompetent planning.

Even red Texas sees the great benefits of renewable energy.


Also that Denmark gets 64 percent and Germany 42 percent of their electricity from wind and solar power without rolling blackouts.


There are also many ways California can improve their ability to regulate supply and demand like for example through battery storage.



There California are now making investment in those technologies.


Their electric cars can also works as energy storage.


Also that fossil fuel plants will break down more often as heat waves becomes more frequent so that is one more reason for increasing investments in renewable energy and energy storage.

 
Even red Texas sees the great benefits of renewable energy.


Also that Denmark gets 64 percent and Germany 42 percent of their electricity from wind and solar power without rolling blackouts.


There are also many ways California can improve their ability to regulate supply and demand like for example through battery storage.



There California are now making investment in those technologies.


Their electric cars can also works as energy storage.


Also that fossil fuel plants will break down more often as heat waves becomes more frequent so that is one more reason for increasing investments in renewable energy and energy storage.


I'm onboard with renewable energy, but we aren't even close to being there yet.

Pretending that we are doesn't help your argument.
 
Lemming
German car companies need to be part of the transition towards electric cars to stay competitive.


There German car makers also starting to realize that.



Lemmings off a cliff.
 
The environmental impact are tiny compared that of fossil fuels. That you for example have 500 000 swimmingpools of toxic waste just a long one Canadian river.


Also a lot are done to reduce the social and environmental impact of electric cars. There this will also put pressure on fossil fuel companies and other companies to start caring about social and environmental then they for example buy cobalt from Kongo.

Please explain, how they are cleaning the opil out of sand, and that's an ecological disaster?
 
The conclusion of the BNP Paribas analyst was the following:

Here’s his conclusion: “Our analysis indicates that for the same capital outlay today, new wind and solar-energy projects in tandem with battery electric vehicles (EVs) will produce 6x-7x more useful energy at the wheels than will oil at $60/[barrel] for gasoline-powered LDVs, and 3x-4x more than will oil at $60/[barrel] for LDVs running on diesel.”

There is no denying the superior efficiency of electric vehicles. There is simply much more bang for the energy expended. I power my EV from my household renewables. It works out beautifully, so I can fully relate to the author's conclusion. How do you power your EV?
Is your power company run by wind or solar power?
 
German car companies need to be part of the transition towards electric cars to stay competitive.


There German car makers also starting to realize that.



Why not change the fuel to carbon neutral, than to attempt to reinvent the economy?
 
Last edited:
Please explain, how they are cleaning the opil out of sand, and that's an ecological disaster?

The bitumen have to extracted through mining leading to massive amount of pollutions.

"In most of Alberta, the bitumen is buried so deep that wells must be drilled to extract it, and steam injected to mobilize it, at great energy cost. But north of Fort McMurray the bitumen layer is shallow enough that it can be strip mined in huge open pits.

A quick look north using Google map’s satellite view clearly shows some of the impacts on the landscape. Scattered along the banks of the Athabasca River is one of the world’s largest collections of tailings waste ponds—able to fill more than 500,000 Olympic swimming pools. These are so toxic, ducks and other birds have to be prevented from going near them."

 
Back
Top Bottom