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Remember Ruby Ridge

Wehrwolfen

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By Tim Lynch
Aug. 21, 2002

“Ruby Ridge” used to refer to a geographical location in the state of Idaho, but after an incident that took place there 10 years ago on Aug. 21, the phrase has come to refer to a scandalous series of events that opened the eyes of many people to the inner workings of the federal government, including the vaunted Federal Bureau of Investigation. Now that 10 years have passed, the feds will accelerate their ongoing effort to “move forward” and have the scandal declared “ancient history.” But the Ruby Ridge episode should not be soon forgotten.


{Snip}
The Department of Justice was so disturbed by the indictment of its agent that they dispatched the solicitor general to a federal appellate court to argue that the charges should be dismissed. (The solicitor general ordinarily only makes oral arguments to the Supreme Court). The solicitor general told the judicial panel that even if the evidence supported the charges, the case should be thrown out because “federal law enforcement agents are privileged to do what would otherwise be unlawful if done by a private citizen.” The appeals court rejected that sweeping argument for a license to kill, but by the time that ruling came down last June, a new local prosecutor was in office in Boundary County, Idaho, and he announced that it was time to put this whole unpleasant episode behind us and to “move on.” Thus, the criminal case against the sniper was dropped.

A new generation of young people who have never heard of Ruby Ridge are now emerging from the public school system and are heading off to college and will thereafter begin their careers in business, education, journalism, government and other fields. This generation will find it hard to fathom that the federal government could have killed a boy and an unarmed woman and then tried to deceive everyone about what had actually occurred and, in some instances, rationalize what did occur. That is why it is important to remember Ruby Ridge. Someone needs to remind the young people (and everyone else) that it really did happen — and that it will happen again if the government is not kept on a short leash. No one will learn about the incident when they tour the FBI facility in Washington. It goes unmentioned for some reason.

[Excerpt]

Read more:
Remember Ruby Ridge | Cato Institute

Shouldn't this incident have alerted Americans? Isn't this part of the BATF's M.O., look at the Fast & Furious operations and their repercussions still happening today.
 

sawyerloggingon

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You should have seen all the military vehicles rolling through town that fateful day. I thought Canada had declared war on us or something.:lol: Randy was an idiot and a well know cull around town but he and his family surly did not have that coming.
 

WCH

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"Someone needs to remind the young people (and everyone else) that it really did happen — and that it will happen again if the government is not kept on a short leash."

IMO, when actions like this by Federal officials go unpunished [and basically forgotten], it only emboldens them to do the same the next time someone 'interferes' with their authority.
 

Lutherf

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"Someone needs to remind the young people (and everyone else) that it really did happen — and that it will happen again if the government is not kept on a short leash."

IMO, when actions like this by Federal officials go unpunished [and basically forgotten], it only emboldens them to do the same the next time someone 'interferes' with their authority.

It certainly has.

Since Ruby Ridge and Waco the militia movement became more "mainstream" which was a reasonable response to government overreach. The response from the government was to become more aggressive in their military style training for law enforcement. This has now trickled down to the state and local levels. The result of that is, rightly, that the limited government movement has also upped their game.

This continued escalation could be stopped if the government simply made a few public apologies and changed their tactics to something less directly aggressive but now they've latched on to the anti-terrorism thing and it's only getting worse.

I sincerely believe that we are not too far off from a direct conflict between the government and the people.
 

CRUE CAB

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You should have seen all the military vehicles rolling through town that fateful day. I thought Canada had declared war on us or something.:lol: Randy was an idiot and a well know cull around town but he and his family surly did not have that coming.

I had and have no sympathy for Weaver. He chose his fight and placed his family in the crosshairs.
I dont agree with the lenghts the G went about either, but a real man puts his family's well being above ALL else.
 

WCH

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It certainly has.

Since Ruby Ridge and Waco the militia movement became more "mainstream" which was a reasonable response to government overreach. The response from the government was to become more aggressive in their military style training for law enforcement. This has now trickled down to the state and local levels. The result of that is, rightly, that the limited government movement has also upped their game.

This continued escalation could be stopped if the government simply made a few public apologies and changed their tactics to something less directly aggressive but now they've latched on to the anti-terrorism thing and it's only getting worse.

I sincerely believe that we are not too far off from a direct conflict between the government and the people.

It's happening all over the world..we are not immune.

Possible trigger: Agenda 21 For Dummies - YouTube
 

Lutherf

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I had and have no sympathy for Weaver. He chose his fight and placed his family in the crosshairs.
I dont agree with the lenghts the G went about either, but a real man puts his family's well being above ALL else.

Weaver complied right along to the point where the actions of the AG made it quite clear that he was NEVER going to get fair treatment under the law. He didn't pick the fight and even when stuff started getting ugly he STILL dealt with the authorities. In fact he had agreed to terms for turning himself in but the AG changed the deal on him.

The guy was never going to be sainted but he put up with an unconscionable amount of **** and NEVER took up arms in his defense.
 

CRUE CAB

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Weaver complied right along to the point where the actions of the AG made it quite clear that he was NEVER going to get fair treatment under the law. He didn't pick the fight and even when stuff started getting ugly he STILL dealt with the authorities. In fact he had agreed to terms for turning himself in but the AG changed the deal on him.

The guy was never going to be sainted but he put up with an unconscionable amount of **** and NEVER took up arms in his defense.
But allowed his family to be put at risk. He had ample time to surrender after his son shot the police officer.
And surrender he should have to protect his wife and baby.
 

sawyerloggingon

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I had and have no sympathy for Weaver. He chose his fight and placed his family in the crosshairs.
I dont agree with the lenghts the G went about either, but a real man puts his family's well being above ALL else.

The ATF entrapped Randy. An undercover agent kept asking Randy to saw off a shotgun for him and finally when enough money was offered he did it. That is what Ruby Ridge was all about.
 

Lutherf

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But allowed his family to be put at risk. He had ample time to surrender after his son shot the police officer.
And surrender he should have to protect his wife and baby.

His son likely fired in anger and fear after Degan took the dog out. It could very reasonably be considered self defense. At that point Randy had some decisions to make. Among those decisions would be exactly how safe it was to turn yourself and your family over to people who obviously have no compunction about making you dead. That consideration seems pretty damned reasonable in light of the fact that the next day there was an assassination attempt on him while he was unarmed and then the guy that tried to kill him splattered his wife's brains all over the place while the most dangerous thing she was holding was a 10 month old baby!
 

CRUE CAB

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The ATF entrapped Randy. An undercover agent kept asking Randy to saw off a shotgun for him and finally when enough money was offered he did it. That is what Ruby Ridge was all about.

I wont argue the merits of the case with you. But once it was all going south, he had an obligation to think of his family first.
 

sawyerloggingon

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I wont argue the merits of the case with you. But once it was all going south, he had an obligation to think of his family first.

When the s*** hit the fan Randy didn't know who was shooting at him. The feds never identified themselves and all Randy saw was guys in camo killing his family.
 

CRUE CAB

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His son likely fired in anger and fear after Degan took the dog out. It could very reasonably be considered self defense. At that point Randy had some decisions to make. Among those decisions would be exactly how safe it was to turn yourself and your family over to people who obviously have no compunction about making you dead. That consideration seems pretty damned reasonable in light of the fact that the next day there was an assassination attempt on him while he was unarmed and then the guy that tried to kill him splattered his wife's brains all over the place while the most dangerous thing she was holding was a 10 month old baby!
He could have taken the high road and did whatever to save his wife from danger.
Everyone has an opinion on it, but mine is he had time to give up and sort it out in court.
 

CRUE CAB

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When the s*** hit the fan Randy didn't know who was shooting at him. The feds never identified themselves and all Randy saw was guys in camo killing his family.
Now we are getting into the part where I have to ask, were you there?
 

ecofarm

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VanceMack

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I wont argue the merits of the case with you. But once it was all going south, he had an obligation to think of his family first.
Surrender to the same people that just killed your dog and shot your son in the back? The same people that just set you up to try to turn you into a spy against the Aryan Brotherhood? You have a pretty high expectation that that is going to go well do you? (Edit-Surrender to...whom? At no time prior to the murder of Vicki Weaver (including during the initial exchange) did the Rangers or any other LE agency identify themselves by their own admission).

By all accounts, his wife was the strength of the family-BATF reports advised they take her out first, and their sniper did, with a kill shot to the head of an unarmed woman standing in a doorway holding an infant.
 
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Wehrwolfen

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Weaver complied right along to the point where the actions of the AG made it quite clear that he was NEVER going to get fair treatment under the law. He didn't pick the fight and even when stuff started getting ugly he STILL dealt with the authorities. In fact he had agreed to terms for turning himself in but the AG changed the deal on him.

The guy was never going to be sainted but he put up with an unconscionable amount of **** and NEVER took up arms in his defense.

If I remember correctly, it wasn't even Weaver's shotgun. It was supplied by the ATF to the CI, Weaver cut the barrel after being talked into it.
 

tech30528

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I had and have no sympathy for Weaver. He chose his fight and placed his family in the crosshairs.
I dont agree with the lenghts the G went about either, but a real man puts his family's well being above ALL else.

His wife was shot dead standing in the doorway holding their young son by a sniper who was out of range of any weapons they had. I don't think this incident will be completely forgotten. Maybe by the majority of the population who faithfully put their blinders on every morning when they wake up, but by the growing number of people who are paying attention to what is happening in the federal government. Unfortunately I think it is only a matter of time before armed conflict between government and civilians as well.Of the law enforcement and military people I know the majority of them have stated that they would drop their uniforms and stand with their neighbors. I only hope that when it happens my little corner of the world is so inconsequential that it will pass us by. There will be no winners, only survivors. It's one of those things I hope I am completely wrong about. But I think once the shooting begins it will not end before the federal government collapses. As big as the government seems to be, it is not nearly as large as the citizenry, and citizens are not going to be wearing uniforms or acting like organized military.
 

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Hmm... Can you explain the comparison between John Singer, Ruby Ridge and WACO?

Religious extremism and a mistrust of government resulting in a siege and a shoot out. Martyrdom.
 

CRUE CAB

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His wife was shot dead standing in the doorway holding their young son by a sniper who was out of range of any weapons they had. I don't think this incident will be completely forgotten. Maybe by the majority of the population who faithfully put their blinders on every morning when they wake up, but by the growing number of people who are paying attention to what is happening in the federal government. Unfortunately I think it is only a matter of time before armed conflict between government and civilians as well.Of the law enforcement and military people I know the majority of them have stated that they would drop their uniforms and stand with their neighbors. I only hope that when it happens my little corner of the world is so inconsequential that it will pass us by. There will be no winners, only survivors. It's one of those things I hope I am completely wrong about. But I think once the shooting begins it will not end before the federal government collapses. As big as the government seems to be, it is not nearly as large as the citizenry, and citizens are not going to be wearing uniforms or acting like organized military.
You can quote me years from now, there will be no massive armed conflict between the US government and its citizens.
As far as Weaver, he had chances before that to quell the fight. Surrender in order to protect his family.
 
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