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Religious schooling at it's finest

Tim the plumber

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OrphanSlug

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Well, it was not really wise to ever merge a system of belief with a system of education anyway... bound to end up with **** like this.
 

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National Secular Society - Orthodox school bans mention of “evolution or prehistoric events�



Good to see the commitment to honesty typical of all religions coming out again.

Why is it not acceptable for them to teach their own beliefs? Secularists do it.

Well, it was not really wise to ever merge a system of belief with a system of education anyway... bound to end up with **** like this.

What else can education be based on?

Should they not teach children anything? If so, that's more like daycare than school.
 

What if...?

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Why is it not acceptable for them to teach their own beliefs? Secularists do it.



What else can education be based on?

Should they not teach children anything? If so, that's more like daycare than school.

I would be reluctant to hire a driver who might suddenly let Jesus take the wheel.
 

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What else can education be based on?

Anything but a system of belief, schools like this turn out too many idiots that think the world is around 6000 years old.
 

Tim the plumber

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Why is it not acceptable for them to teach their own beliefs? Secularists do it.



What else can education be based on?

Should they not teach children anything? If so, that's more like daycare than school.

Honesty is more important than what you want to believe.
 

Thrilla

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an all boys orthodox Jewish private school teaches Orthodox Jewish stuff..... why, i'm so very surprised by this.. it's incredible!... unbelievable.!

surely when the parents enrolled them they thought they would be taught secular subjects .. and we're obviously bamboozled!.. conned... defrauded!
 

Thrilla

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Honesty is more important than what you want to believe.

well, personally,I would agree.... but then again, I don't go looking for religious instructions that follow the teachings of a certain religion.... these folks most obviously did.... and i think they have the right to do so.( parents should be a bit more interested in accuracy than they are though, but they have a the right to hold different priorities than i do)

I'm also not a believer in a one size fits all government that forces everyone to teach and learn the same exact thing , according to government bureaucrat standards and timelines..... though I am quite a fan of accuracy ( which is why i'm not a fan of religious school, personally)
 

Thrilla

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Anything but a system of belief, schools like this turn out too many idiots that think the world is around 6000 years old.

public schools that teach along secular lines also put out tons and tons of idiots.....just sayin'.

in any event, believe the earth is 6000 years old , to me, makes one ..umm.. deficient... but in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter.
it really effects nothing.
 

Tim the plumber

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well, personally,I would agree.... but then again, I don't go looking for religious instructions that follow the teachings of a certain religion.... these folks most obviously did.... and i think they have the right to do so.( parents should be a bit more interested in accuracy than they are though, but they have a the right to hold different priorities than i do)

I'm also not a believer in a one size fits all government that forces everyone to teach and learn the same exact thing , according to government bureaucrat standards and timelines..... though I am quite a fan of accuracy ( which is why i'm not a fan of religious school, personally)

Do parents have the right to abuse their children? Including educational abuse?
 

Tim the plumber

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public schools that teach along secular lines also put out tons and tons of idiots.....just sayin'.

in any event, believe the earth is 6000 years old , to me, makes one ..umm.. deficient... but in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter.
it really effects nothing.

That would depend upon you considering any career in any science. Or of being able to understand anything about the universe.
 

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public schools that teach along secular lines also put out tons and tons of idiots.....just sayin'.

in any event, believe the earth is 6000 years old , to me, makes one ..umm.. deficient... but in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter.
it really effects nothing.

I disagree... mainly along the lines of the ability to reason with someone like that.
 

D_NATURED

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an all boys orthodox Jewish private school teaches Orthodox Jewish stuff..... why, i'm so very surprised by this.. it's incredible!... unbelievable.!

surely when the parents enrolled them they thought they would be taught secular subjects .. and we're obviously bamboozled!.. conned... defrauded!

You don't go to school to learn to "believe" this or that. Any idiot can learn to just believe things. A school should have a higher standard for what they teach than just whether it's what they (the clergy in charge) believe.

Let's also be clear about what "secular subjects" are. They are not the subject of atheism, they are subjects lacking religious interpretation. Math is a secular subject, English is a secular subject, comparative religions is a secular subject. What's wrong with learning, real learning, being secular. It should be, if it's called "learning".

People can study the bible for years and never learn anything except that we evolved culturally from a very violent, misogynist tradition. When we seek to perpetuate that shameful tradition, it calls into question whether we've learned anything at all.

Because dogma is very different from facts, the idea of a religious "school" is inherently oxymoronic. If it's religious, they should have to withhold the title "school", so that nobody makes the mistake of thinking that those who graduate will have any accurate knowledge of the world. The irony is that they charge you to send your children there, to come away with a head full of superstitions. What a waste of young minds.
 

Tim the plumber

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it's not abuse, sorry... get a better argument.

Not giving your children acces to even a half decent education because you don't want them to learn anything which might give them the confidence to live in the modern world certainly is abuse.
 

Thrilla

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That would depend upon you considering any career in any science. Or of being able to understand anything about the universe.

that's very true.... my guess is that if these kids continue to be indoctrinated according ot orthodox Jewish beliefs, their careers will be along those lines.... just like everyone else.

not many folks who believe the earth is 6000 years old will be historians or anthropologists, though....

in any event, these kids still have high school ahead of them... there's plenty of time to indoctrinate them according to the incomplete and basic standards of the DOE..... they'll still be idiots, though.
 

Thrilla

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Not giving your children acces to even a half decent education because you don't want them to learn anything which might give them the confidence to live in the modern world certainly is abuse.

no, it's not abuse... abuse is actually illegal.

no need to be melodramatic about any of this.
 

Thrilla

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You don't go to school to learn to "believe" this or that. Any idiot can learn to just believe things. A school should have a higher standard for what they teach than just whether it's what they (the clergy in charge) believe.

Let's also be clear about what "secular subjects" are. They are not the subject of atheism, they are subjects lacking religious interpretation. Math is a secular subject, English is a secular subject, comparative religions is a secular subject. What's wrong with learning, real learning, being secular. It should be, if it's called "learning".

People can study the bible for years and never learn anything except that we evolved culturally from a very violent, misogynist tradition. When we seek to perpetuate that shameful tradition, it calls into question whether we've learned anything at all.

Because dogma is very different from facts, the idea of a religious "school" is inherently oxymoronic. If it's religious, they should have to withhold the title "school", so that nobody makes the mistake of thinking that those who graduate will have any accurate knowledge of the world. The irony is that they charge you to send your children there, to come away with a head full of superstitions. What a waste of young minds.

you're entitled to your opinion.

in the mean time, our secular public schools will keep churning out idiots at high rates, and folks will keep fighting to keep that system perfectly intact.
 

Cyrylek

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OK, let me get it straight. An Orthodox Jewish religious school in Britain has a curriculum that is not ...secular enough? According to some bureaucratic office that apparently has the right to police the educational choices parents make?

While not Jewish and not British (and actually an atheist), I am so inclined to invite Ofsted to go and entertain itself autoerotically....
 

Paleocon

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Anything but a system of belief, schools like this turn out too many idiots that think the world is around 6000 years old.

Instilling a belief system is the entire point of education. For example, because of my physics education, I believe that entropy always tends to increase.
 

Cryptic

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That would depend upon you considering any career in any science. Or of being able to understand anything about the universe.

Way over simplified.

Some of these scientists may of also had beliefs about the resurrection of dead bodie, and water turning to blood under certain circumstances. They were also better scientists than most atheists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists

Anecdotally, I have met very good mathmaticians working on complex software algoritihism (math is a science) who were practicing Hindus and had beliefs in astrology. My evangelical Christian doctor's religous beliefs about life after death and divine judgement never detracted from his ability to practice medicine.

In short, having religous beliefs "X", does not necessarily limit one's ability to be a scientist, or to understand aspects of the physical world.
 

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Instilling a belief system is the entire point of education. For example, because of my physics education, I believe that entropy always tends to increase.

Not it is really not.

The entire point of an education system is to install knowledge and the ability to reason, to prepare and develop the individual for a meaningful contribution and fulfillment.

If it was all about instilling a belief system, religion would have us running around thinking the world was around 6000 years old... like the school mentioned by the OP.
 

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The entire point of an education system is to install knowledge

Exactly. The point of school is to get kids to believe that which is (in the judgment of the one doing the teaching) true.

I'm sure this completely go over your head and you'll continue rationalizing how "evolution is false" is a belief while "evolution is true" is not a belief, but it bears saying anyway.
 

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Exactly. The point of school is to get kids to believe that which is (in the judgment of the one doing the teaching) true.

I'm sure this completely go over your head and you'll continue rationalizing how "evolution is false" is a belief while "evolution is true" is not a belief, but it bears saying anyway.

Don't cut up my posts and misrepresent what I said, it is dishonest.
 
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