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Religion : the downfall of humanity.


You said;




This is what I mean when I say your arguments are very poor. Your inability to understand that what you have said here is recorded and can be quoted back to you makes plain your lack of internal honesty.

You really want to pick apart my grammar? You really believe that is what I said? I was right, your post was cretinous and so was the follow up post.

If you so desperately want to believe that then go ahead and argue a strawman. Enjoy.
 

You said;




This is what I mean when I say your arguments are very poor. Your inability to understand that what you have said here is recorded and can be quoted back to you makes plain your lack of internal honesty.
................flip side being that so can yours. More so, actually.
 
First of all, I think this guy is a terrific writer.

The guy writes energetically.

Part III of III
Expelling the Demons of the Opiate
Into the Mind and Ego
By Manuel Valenzuela
February 24, 2005
Valenzuela's Veritas: The Evolution of Revolution, Part III: Expelling the Demons of the Opiate

Afraid of loneliness and fearful of the world around them, early humans developed beliefs that would better control the ever-insecure human thought process. In order to understand what was then unknown early man developed entities, known as gods, and stories, myths and fables that explained, in very primitive ways, the world they inhabited. The fear of primitive thought was controlled by stories of how man had been created, helping to restore the human ego's questions on origin and reason for existence. Gods were created, based on the imagination and observation of nature, to help explain the unexplained and the paradigms of fear the natural world conveyed.

By introducing the concept of gods, early humans were able to find meaning in their world. They were at once able to differentiate themselves from animals and the natural world surrounding them. Questions that arose were answered easily enough through stories and myths created out of human ingenuity and imagination, and soon nature itself became a series of gods, as did anything not understood that needed explaining, such as the sun, moon, rain, wind, water, fire, the seasons, soil, harvest and the animal world. The concept of being alone in the world was erased as stories of creation and of metaphysical entities made man the foundation of existence, placing us at the throne of Earth and helping, in many ways, to squash the incessant fears early man had of the world it inhabited. Thus, questions were answered, the ego was satisfied, and the idea of religion was born.

Calm
 
You really want to pick apart my grammar? You really believe that is what I said? I was right, your post was cretinous and so was the follow up post.

If you so desperately want to believe that then go ahead and argue a strawman. Enjoy.

I don't want to pick appart your grammer. I cut and copied this from your post;

Many of our ancestors had to bridge an agricultural energy deficit before they could afford to really spend time contemplating their existence. Those cultures that successfully harnessed other people's labour to free themselves from that toil managed to throw up some great minds but, the general population was a little too busy to join them; They had religion as shorthand to make sense of things and accept their lot so, I don't judge them to harshly.

It is those people in modern times that are free of the shackles and persist in lazy thinking that are wasting our time and energy.

Admittedly my bold.

You said that you did not say that you judged them too harshly. You did say that.
 
I don't want to pick appart your grammer. I cut and copied this from your post;


apparently you did so without reading your cut and paste first.

Admittedly my bold.

You said that you did not say that you judged them too harshly. You did say that.

Yes, and what precedes it? Could it be, 'They had religion as shorthand to make sense of things and accept their lot so, I don't judge them to harshly' in the full sentence. Now which section of the population do you think I might be referring to there? Do you think that it was the people with power/slave owners that accepted their lot and so I don't judge them or the general population living under either subsistence or slavery that found comfort in religion as a shorthand to make sense of their desperate plight? It really, really concerns me that I am having to explain this to you Tim because I had you pegged as one of the better posters in this forum section.
 
[/COLOR]

apparently you did so without reading your cut and paste first.



Yes, and what precedes it? Could it be, 'They had religion as shorthand to make sense of things and accept their lot so, I don't judge them to harshly' in the full sentence. Now which section of the population do you think I might be referring to there? Do you think that it was the people with power/slave owners that accepted their lot and so I don't judge them or the general population living under either subsistence or slavery that found comfort in religion as a shorthand to make sense of their desperate plight? It really, really concerns me that I am having to explain this to you Tim because I had you pegged as one of the better posters in this forum section.

So you don't judge the slaves too harshly?????????

Bonkers.
 
First of all, I think this guy is a terrific writer.

The guy writes energetically.

Part III of III
Expelling the Demons of the Opiate
Into the Mind and Ego
By Manuel Valenzuela
February 24, 2005
Valenzuela's Veritas: The Evolution of Revolution, Part III: Expelling the Demons of the Opiate

Afraid of loneliness and fearful of the world around them, early humans developed beliefs that would better control the ever-insecure human thought process. In order to understand what was then unknown early man developed entities, known as gods, and stories, myths and fables that explained, in very primitive ways, the world they inhabited. The fear of primitive thought was controlled by stories of how man had been created, helping to restore the human ego's questions on origin and reason for existence. Gods were created, based on the imagination and observation of nature, to help explain the unexplained and the paradigms of fear the natural world conveyed.

By introducing the concept of gods, early humans were able to find meaning in their world. They were at once able to differentiate themselves from animals and the natural world surrounding them. Questions that arose were answered easily enough through stories and myths created out of human ingenuity and imagination, and soon nature itself became a series of gods, as did anything not understood that needed explaining, such as the sun, moon, rain, wind, water, fire, the seasons, soil, harvest and the animal world. The concept of being alone in the world was erased as stories of creation and of metaphysical entities made man the foundation of existence, placing us at the throne of Earth and helping, in many ways, to squash the incessant fears early man had of the world it inhabited. Thus, questions were answered, the ego was satisfied, and the idea of religion was born.

Calm

Greetings, Calm. :2wave:

Very well said! :thumbs:
 
True. That's a valid point.

Since people have evolved a higher level of intelligence, however, there's a level of malice which sometimes exists which doesn't exist in other species.



You sure about that? We have a crow problem here. They are nesting and become aggressive in protecting their nests, several people have been injured. However sometimes there is no nest and they are actually waiting for you. True fact they can identify use by our face and if you mess with them, they will haunt you all summer

Saying malice does not exist in animals has not seen what a Grizzly bear can do just because it can. I have seen Orcas playing "catch" with sea lions, where the Orca slams the sea lion with it's fluke sending it hundreds of meters through the air to an awaiting Orca who will also slam it, all across the pod till long after it's dead; an example of killing for sport in the animal kingdom.
 
First of all, I think this guy is a terrific writer.

The guy writes energetically.

Part III of III
Expelling the Demons of the Opiate
Into the Mind and Ego
By Manuel Valenzuela
February 24, 2005
Valenzuela's Veritas: The Evolution of Revolution, Part III: Expelling the Demons of the Opiate

Afraid of loneliness and fearful of the world around them, early humans developed beliefs that would better control the ever-insecure human thought process. In order to understand what was then unknown early man developed entities, known as gods, and stories, myths and fables that explained, in very primitive ways, the world they inhabited. The fear of primitive thought was controlled by stories of how man had been created, helping to restore the human ego's questions on origin and reason for existence. Gods were created, based on the imagination and observation of nature, to help explain the unexplained and the paradigms of fear the natural world conveyed.

By introducing the concept of gods, early humans were able to find meaning in their world. They were at once able to differentiate themselves from animals and the natural world surrounding them. Questions that arose were answered easily enough through stories and myths created out of human ingenuity and imagination, and soon nature itself became a series of gods, as did anything not understood that needed explaining, such as the sun, moon, rain, wind, water, fire, the seasons, soil, harvest and the animal world. The concept of being alone in the world was erased as stories of creation and of metaphysical entities made man the foundation of existence, placing us at the throne of Earth and helping, in many ways, to squash the incessant fears early man had of the world it inhabited. Thus, questions were answered, the ego was satisfied, and the idea of religion was born.

Calm



Well, that's an old, old theory. In this case however, we're dealing with a guy with a blog. That's it. Google him and you get manuel valenzuela - Bing

So I can't quite understand what the intent is here. It's another rant, undocumented theorizing how 'gods' came into the culture. It is one of hundreds.

Just as there are opposites, that theological studies equally theorize how God revealed Himself to man in stages over aeons.

What we DO know is that we KNOW nothing, we have beliefs. This guy believes God was a creation of man. I do have to say he did it rather objectively but there's nothing here to discuss
 
Well, that's an old, old theory. In this case however, we're dealing with a guy with a blog.
It's another rant, undocumented theorizing how 'gods' came into the culture. It is one of hundreds.

Well, of course many people have written their views or theory concerning this topic.

I thought that Manuel Valenzuela made his in an intelligent way. I enjoyed reading it.

I don't understand what your complaint was/is.

Calm
 
Never happen. First of all, evolution is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind because it lowers man to the level of animals. Second, without G-d, nothing can exist. Sorry, but your Communist brainwashing does not match the divine power of G-d.

this post makes me question that the interpretation of evolution is backwards, that it has lowered animals to the level of humans

"god" would be a much greater hoax since it would mean the vast majority of humans have utterly wasted their lives worshiping a fantasy and slaughtering each other for even less of a cause than to appease this deity
 
In December 1973 Playboy published an article by Alan Watts entitled "The Most Dangerous Book in the World". Alan Watts is gone now, but he wrote extensively about comparative religion.

One of the questions I contemplate is whether religion has caused more harm than good to the human species. It brings so much superstition and hatred that it is hard to reconcile some of the New Testament principles with the rest.
 
I don't get it. If there is the way of truth and the way of opinion and we should always follow the way of the truth wouldn't that be his opinion? What is philosophy except the way of opinion? Is philosophy, or any other opinion based ideology any different from a religion? Religion is just something held onto by faith and with ardor, as Parmenides' opinion seems to be.

So philosophy is not reason, but unsubstantiated opinion?
 
Well, of course many people have written their views or theory concerning this topic.

I thought that Manuel Valenzuela made his in an intelligent way. I enjoyed reading it.

I don't understand what your complaint was/is.

Calm



I'm wondering why you consider it a complaint when its an observation of one guy without ONE NOTE of research. Not one reference to theological study, just his parochial opinion, unverified by anything.
I guess if you figure every single idiot who posts a blog is accurate, smart enough to reason all this out on their own as some kind of gospel you will, of course, be entertained.

Like any comic book
 
I'm wondering why you consider it a complaint when its an observation

I never read the article as part of my PHD in theology ....

I read it as a view from an ordinary Joe and who does not wear a religious collar and does not ever claim to be theologian.

It is like reading a story concerning politics or finance even if the person writing does not have a Masters Degree.

But, not to worry. I am not offended.

If everybody enjoyed the read as much as I did, it would of been a NYT best seller. But obviously it was not.

Balm
 
I never read the article as part of my PHD in theology ....

I read it as a view from an ordinary Joe and who does not wear a religious collar and does not ever claim to be theologian.

It is like reading a story concerning politics or finance even if the person writing does not have a Masters Degree.

But, not to worry. I am not offended.

If everybody enjoyed the read as much as I did, it would of been a NYT best seller. But obviously it was not.

Balm



I really do not give a ****.

It's a BLOG one of thousands, millions. If it were paper its ass wipe


Please don't bother me on this horse****, OK?
 
Parmenides explained reality as well as he could... 500 BCE... then all Western thought was plunged into a tar pit of religion... and we still have not been able to come out of it.

Humans are not relevant to reality, we know that much, but without religion we would be in a so much better place in understanding the universe.

Physics and Cosmology have come a long way to get rid of superstition and show us what reality is. I hope for the best in the next 200 years.



Humans are not relevant to reality? Without Humans, there IS no reality.

We invented to concept.

It's like those shows that looks at Earth 'after people'.....who cares if there are no humans around to see it?
 
Humans are not relevant to reality? Without Humans, there IS no reality.

The bible always talks about the "Unseen World" and the battles taking place there between good and evil.

Maybe we humans are just a reflection of reality and of what is happening in the Unseen World?

Calm
 
The bible always talks about the "Unseen World" and the battles taking place there between good and evil.

Maybe we humans are just a reflection of reality and of what is happening in the Unseen World?

Calm

The Bible is a book written by primitive nomads beginning in the 7th or 6th centuries BC. It has no more weight on the reality of the universe than does Moby Dick.
 
The Bible is a book written by primitive nomads beginning in the 7th or 6th centuries BC. It has no more weight on the reality of the universe than does Moby Dick.

I am just commenting.

Although I have studied religion endlessly, (My identical twin is a theologian of sorts. He knows the complete bible by memory)

I am sort of an atheist.

I don't believe in any organized religion.

Calm
 
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I am just commenting.

Although I have studied religion endlessly, (My identical twin is a theologian of sorts. He knows the complete bible by memory)

I am sort of an atheist.

I don't believe in any organized religion.

Calm

Then, and I'm just curious now, why mention the bible in your earlier post?
 
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