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Religion of Peace?

Should anyone coming to the U.S. HAVE to know english?

  • Hell yes! It's about time....

    Votes: 19 48.7%
  • Hell no! Let 'em all in like roachs.

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • Who care's they should retain as much of their homland as they can.

    Votes: 12 30.8%
  • Close the doors & start sending some back.

    Votes: 4 10.3%

  • Total voters
    39

Messerschmitt

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Start with this:

Stop blowing things up. It's not helping. At all.
Stop shooting people. It's not helping. At all.

We will begin with this question:

What do you think $400 billion dollars could do if it went to finding an alternative fuel source?

This isn't a plan to prevent terrorism. Sure getting away from a dependance on oil will help the US from being at the mercy of Sadui Arabia. The ammount of money spend on alternative fules since 1999 is actualy over a trillion, but that isn't the topic SAY ON TOPIC.

Okay... You have two people sitting around just nodding their heads at what the they are saying... It's not debate... it's... for lack of a better word... lame.

Well I am sorry this lame for you with this grown-up talk, but its not our job to keep you entertained.
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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Messerschmitt said:
This isn't a plan to prevent terrorism. Sure getting away from a dependance on oil will help the US from being at the mercy of Saudi Arabia. The amount of money spend on alternative fules since 1999 is actualy over a trillion, but that isn't the topic. STAY ON TOPIC.

A. Mine is a more effective plan for preventing terrorism than any counter-productive war you or the Bush administration could think up.

B. You don't think oil is in any way related to terrorism?

C. If you're concerned about the topic, shouldn't we be talking about Islam being or not being a peaceful religion.

Well I am sorry if this is lame for you with this grown-up talk, but its not our job to keep you entertained.

I wasn't looking for entertainment. I guess it doesn't matter 'SAY ON TOPIC.'
 

Messerschmitt

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I wasn't looking for entertainment. I guess it doesn't matter 'SAY ON TOPIC.'

You know pointing out bad behavior doesn't justify bad behavior.

A. Mine is a more effective plan for preventing terrorism than any counter-productive war you or the Bush administration could think up.

B. You don't think oil is in any way related to terrorism?

C. If you're concerned about the topic, shouldn't we be talking about Islam being or not being a peaceful religion.

(BTW you are still off topic with your plan, and war for oil, and pointing out my wrong doing you hypocrite) It sounds like I have heard this before Hmmm Kerry perhaps? Whats your little plan. Thats right you don't have a plan because pacifists do nothing they just refuse to eat and lie around (no pun intended) and do nothing. Oil is not the cause for war. We are in the middle east to prevent terrorism (and to free Iraqis from Saddam) before it happens and it seems to be quite effective because I haven't seen any terrorists attacks since 9/11. I dare you to disprove me about the "war for oil" there is no credible information that this "theory" is true. Don't complain about me being off topic I'm just answering your questions.
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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Messerschmitt said:
(BTW you are still off topic with your plan, and war for oil, and pointing out my wrong doing you hypocrite) It sounds like I have heard this before. Hmmm Kerry perhaps? Whats your little plan? Thats right you don't have a plan because pacifists do nothing they just refuse to eat and lie around (no pun intended) and do nothing.

Are you trying to imply that Gandhi did nothing?

Oil is not the cause for war.

I didn't say it was. It certainly plays a factor in the leadership of islamic terrorist organizations and those who sponsor them.

We are in the middle east to prevent terrorism (and to free Iraqis from Saddam) before it happens and it seems to be quite effective because I haven't seen any terrorists attacks since 9/11.

?

London, Madrid, Russia... What a silly thing to say...

I dare you to disprove me about the "war for oil." There is no credible information that this "theory" is true.

I sincerely believe George Bush thinks he is on the right path. I sincerely believe that he is incredibly wrong.

I don't think he's over there for oil.

Don't complain about me being off topic. I'm just answering your questions.

:moon:
 

Messerschmitt

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If your at the point where you are making insulting gestures then you might as well say that you give up and that your frustrated.

London, Madrid, Russia... What a silly thing to say...

Yea this is a really DUMB thing to say, because its obvious that these countries don't need help. They are capable of taking care of themselves. Unlike Afganastan, and Iraq where the people couldn't help themselves because of dictatorship by Saddam (Iraq) and the Taliban (Afganistan).

Are you trying to imply that Gandhi did nothing?

No I didn't say Gandi did nothing I said that the approach that he used was really inefficient and time consuming.
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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Messerschmitt said:
Yea this is a really DUMB thing to say, because its obvious that these countries don't need help. They are capable of taking care of themselves. Unlike Afganastan, and Iraq where the people couldn't help themselves because of dictatorship by Saddam (Iraq) and the Taliban (Afganistan).

You said you hadn't seen any terrorist attacks since 9/11. Unless you've been living under a rock for the past few years, I don't see how that's true. The revolution in Islam has to come from within. Not the West. You should want to get involved, and you do. You should want to help, and you do. I know you and Bush mean well, but my friend, you're working backwards

No I didn't say Gandhi did nothing I said that the approach that he used was really inefficient and time consuming.

Do you know how many lives that man saved? Do you know how many would have died in a bloodbath revolution with England? Time? Who gives a **** about time? You will never see mother crying her eyes out over a flag draped coffin because of the lost time is inside of it. Do you know how much potential is in a SINGLE human life? Do you know how many are thrown away in a war? Gandhi was the closest thing to Christ any man on the face of the Earth has ever come(that wasn't christ)and he wasn't even christian. When I think about what he did and what he symbolizes to me, I get lost in awe and amazement. If you don't understand the value of his selfless actions and everything that he symbolizes, I don't know where to begin with you.
 

Messerschmitt

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You said you hadn't seen any terrorist attacks since 9/11. Unless you've been living under a rock for the past few years, I don't see how that's true. The revolution in Islam has to come from within. Not the West. You should want to get involved, and you do. You should want to help, and you do. I know you and Bush mean well, but my friend, you're working backwards

I said there were no terrorists attacks sine 9/11 in the US.

Do you know how many lives that man saved? Do you know how many would have died in a bloodbath revolution with England? Time? Who gives a **** about time? You will never see mother crying her eyes out over a flag draped coffin because of the lost time is inside of it. Do you know how much potential is in a SINGLE human life? Do you know how many are thrown away in a war? Gandhi was the closest thing to Christ any man on the face of the Earth has ever come(that wasn't christ)and he wasn't even christian. When I think about what he did and what he symbolizes to me, I get lost in awe and amazement. If you don't understand the value of his selfless actions and everything that he symbolizes, I don't know where to begin with you.

No I didn't say Gandhi did nothing I said that the approach that he used was really inefficient and time consuming, Gandhi's method won't work against religious extremists. Do you think that for one second that if Americans, British, and Iraqis protested against religious extremists that they would stop. The same religious extremists who you kill themselves just to hurt you. No way, there is only an offensive option to deal with religious extremists. If there was another way that path would have already been taken, but it has not because it doesn't exist.
 

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Messerschmitt said:
You know pointing out bad behavior doesn't justify bad behavior.



(BTW you are still off topic with your plan, and war for oil, and pointing out my wrong doing you hypocrite) It sounds like I have heard this before Hmmm Kerry perhaps? Whats your little plan. Thats right you don't have a plan because pacifists do nothing they just refuse to eat and lie around (no pun intended) and do nothing. Oil is not the cause for war. We are in the middle east to prevent terrorism (and to free Iraqis from Saddam) before it happens and it seems to be quite effective because I haven't seen any terrorists attacks since 9/11. I dare you to disprove me about the "war for oil" there is no credible information that this "theory" is true. Don't complain about me being off topic I'm just answering your questions.


I'm quoting you're entire thread so you can't claim i'm "spinning". You didn't say anything about "In the US". You'r exact quote is "We are in the middle east to prevent terrorism (and to free Iraqis from Saddam) before it happens and it seems to be quite effective because I haven't seen any terrorists attacks since 9/11." Word for word right there. I'm not always agreeing with G>B here, but don't back peddle and change what you said when we can look up and SEE it. Just admit you were wrong
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Messerschmitt said:
I said there were no terrorists attacks sine 9/11 in the US.

Who cares? Are we trying to stop terrorism or terrorism in the US? Why do you think terrorism has stopped? Because we're bombing people in foriegn countries? I doubt it. It would be more intelligent to say it was the reforms to the intelligence community. Hell, blame the USA PATRIOT act. It's not because of a war. That's ridiculous. You think you can scare people who are willing to blow them selves up int submission with... bombs; with death?

No I didn't say Gandhi did nothing I said that the approach that he used was really inefficient and time consuming,

So do you think he should have led riots and raids? Killed hundreds? Thousands? Got indpendence in 10 years instead of all the precious time he lost when he decided "I WILL NOT BE A MURDERER?"

Gandhi's method won't work against religious extremists. Do you think that for one second that if Americans, British, and Iraqis protested against religious extremists that they would stop. The same religious extremists who you kill themselves just to hurt you. No way, there is only an offensive option to deal with religious extremists. If there was another way that path would have already been taken, but it has not because it doesn't exist.

Gandhi's hunger strikes and marches to the sea to make salt wouldn't work, of course not. Nonviolence would. It may "time consuming" to say the least, but think of how the entire world would change America, the greatest nation on God's green earth, said, "I will not be a murderer. Even if my enemy will be."
 

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I think it's easy to figure out why terrorists are attacking us - we're the biggest target. If it wasn't us, they'd be after someone else, anyone else the terrorists could use to advance their political agenda.
 

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galenrox said:
Somehow I doubt that Akbhar Doe who blows himself up is really concerned with pushing much of political agenda.
No, but the people who coordinate terrorism sure are pushing an agenda...
 

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galenrox said:
True, but they're not the ones we need to worry about. What we need to take care of is all of the Akbhar Doe's out there who we've pushed from passively disliking America to blowing his ass up in a car to take out a few Americans. Maybe if we stopped doing **** to **** him off, things would slow down, cause god knows the ones with the actual political agendas aren't gonna blow themselves up.
But see, that's what makes terrorist acts out to be acts of war - the political agenda of the people at the top. The footsoldiers are just cannon fodder. If it weren't for the people at the top, these acts would be far less common, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The entire conflict is about power and influence. We exert our influence in the world, and the islamo/fascists want to exert theirs. The arguments from both sides are nothing more than rhetoric used to convince undecided or uncommitted people that the use of power is justified. Bottom line is people will always exert whatever power they can. It's human nature...
 

Nemo

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The Rapture

March on, Christian soldiers -
March on to Armageddon;
Let none fainthearted sigh.
Follow on, Christian soldiers -
Follow the Four Horsemen;
The Apocalypse is nigh.

March on, Christian soldiers -
March on to Judgment Day;
For all that lives must die.
Carry on, Christian soldiers -
Carry on and lead the way;
For now Death’s angels fly.

The bell tolls and trumpet calls
From high on Heaven’s gate.
Mark good the rolls as evil falls
To Hell, their eternal fate.

Comes the Lord to show favor -
God’s faithful full deployed.
For the love of Christ our Savior
Shall all now be destroyed.
 

Imudman

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galenrox said:
Except there is obviously an increase in the amount of foot soldiers since we've been ignoring them and going after those on top instead, when in fact it's the foot soldiers who are doing all the damage, and if we did what was neccisary to make the foot soldiers not hate us, then those on the top would be back in the situation they were in before Bush was off trying his hardest to **** everyone in the world off, which is they wanted to bring us down but didn't have enough people or resources to actually do it in any effective manor.
That makes sense, I"ll admit. Only, it's out of our hands. We were attacked on 911, and responded. Right response or not, we're in it now. I don't think Bush is evil personified - I think he's a fallable human being who did what he thought was right. And when it's all said and done, he had access to a lot more info than any of us...
 

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galenrox said:
I don't think Bush is evil personified, but he's definately not a good person either.
My suggested response is still not impossible, although it is improbable, considering who's in charge, and their limited mental capacities. But basically what we would need to do is take steps in Iraq to show them that we really are on their side. We need to stop taking a political role, and just play a defender role in Iraq, and do the simple ****, like restore electricity and revitalize the economy, and really show them that the government that's being formed is indeed theirs, and we have no intentions to form a pupper government (of course, for that to work it would actually have to be true, which I have some doubts). Basically we need to show them that we are there to help them, not ourselves.
And also we need to remove our ****ing military base from Mecca! I mean, *******it, ****ing Mecca! If that isn't the biggest "**** you, we rule!" to the muslims, I don't know what is!
I might be wrong, but I think we've already removed our military presence from Saudi lands. Or we're at least in the process of doing it. Another thing we could do is develop better, more fuel efficient transportation. I mean, the sad reality of it all is we need to keep the oil running, no matter what. But if we didn't need the oil so bad, then there would be less pressure on us to influence the politics of the middle east...
 

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galenrox said:
True, but Bush wouldn't be down with that either. I once watched a biography on Bush, and do you remember when the gas prices plummeted after the fuel crisis in the 70's? In his biography they presented that as a tragic event, because he always has and always will be in the oil game, so he has no interest in alternative fuels and fuel efficiency.
I could swear I've heard him talking about hydrogen fuel cells. Anyway, have a good one today, galenrox. I gotta run and make money to support our socialist friends both here and abroad...
 

cnredd

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galenrox said:
And also we need to remove our ****ing military base from Mecca! I mean, *******it, ****ing Mecca! If that isn't the biggest "**** you, we rule!" to the muslims, I don't know what is!

Not Mecca....Mecca has a rule, which tells you all you need to know about Islam...

NO non-Muslim is allowed inside Mecca. NONE. ZERO.

As for the other places in Saudi Arabia, we have been ASKED by their government to be there.

If, for some unknown reason, the US asked China to build a base in America and they did, would you go around sayng "I hate China!"? Would you think people would go to Beijing and blow themselves up over it?

BTW - As a sidenote about Mecca....When they have the Hajj(Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca), officials CONVISCATE every Koran brought into the city and gives out THEIR VERSION of it. How's that for mind control?
Then they BURN the conviscated Korans...you wanna mention Gitmo again?
 

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BTW - As a sidenote about Mecca....When they have the Hajj(Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca), officials CONVISCATE every Koran brought into the city and gives out THEIR VERSION of it. How's that for mind control?



Been to Hajj....never happened
 

cnredd

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Surenderer said:
Been to Hajj....never happened

Just going by what I've read or heard...didn't look for sources...

maybe it's just certain ones that the officials notice? I don't know...
 

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galenrox said:
Of course the Saudi government wants us there, they are propped up by us in the first place. The Saudi royal family is just a puppet for the US. So what message does that send that we're there with a military base on their holy land to help prop up their government.
A more accurate comparison would be if China propped up a government here that didn't act in our interest, but moreso the Chinese interest, and left us to starve, and then placed a military base over part of Arlington cemetary, and we just stewed about it for many years as we watch our friends and family starve to death as those in the government that doesn't represent us becomes billionaires with a lot of help for the Chinese, and in that situation, yes, I think if we could we would blow ourselves up in Beijing.

We did NOT prop up the Saudi Government! The Saud family organized the different sects in the area 80-100 years ago. According to your logic, it must be Herbert Hoover's fault.
 

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We have to kill them to save their immortal souls.
 

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Okidoki, we have two nutters here who want to wipe out 1 BILLION with a *****ing B!, for the actions of a few. Great. Just f-ing great.
 

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You guys got me on the terrorist attacks sine 9/11. What I think I wanted to say was that there weren't any terrorists attacks in the US since the start of the war. As bad as war is, it is still keeping the US safer than it was on 9/11. I have been on religious extremists web sites and read what they write, and it is very clear they don't care who you are if you don't accept their beliefs, they want you dead. With people like that you can't reason with them; if their main goal in life is to kill you or hurt you even if the price is killing themselves. I'm not talking about Islamics or Muslims I am talking about the extremists. Its sad but the only way to deal with people who are that hard core (religious extremists) is to kill them before they kill you; or find them and imprison them. What they are doing has no justification there is nothing we have done to them in the past that is giving them a reason to kill US, Spanish, British, or Russian citizens. It is the ultra hardcore religious extremists who are told by their version of religion that all infidels (people like you and I) must die.


The religious extremists (terrorists) are spread throughout the middle east. The war started in Afghanistan which is where Al Qaeda was until we wiped most of that out. Now we are in Iraq and believe it or not there are terrorists (religious extremists) there. There is lost of evidence to support this if you don't believe me. Here are just a few examples: In the spring of 05 US soldiers discovered a large facility with training materials(for bombs and bio weapons), dead tortured hostages, passports, SUVs with US license plates and registration. More recently Iraq soldiers discovered a huge underground bunker with the same kinds of stuff in it like the other falicity except more of it. Collation soldiers also capture insurgence (terrorists), and gain valuable information on whereabouts of other safe houses and insurgence personnel. If you don't believe me about the religious extremists(terrorists) bunker in Iraq heres the link that details the stuff inside http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/003514.html

I know what you are thinking that if the middle east is full of religious extremists(terrorists) then why not Jordan or Syria. I think that the plan of military strategists is this: we can't go into every middle eastern country to capture or kill religious extremists(terrorists), because of time and money, so we will make our presence known that we are in Iraq to draw them all to one place. That isn't fact thats just what I think the plan is to kill or capture religious extremists(terrorists). So if you see reports on more terrorists coming into Iraq (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/20/britain.allawi/) the plan must be working because its drawing them from other countries to Iraq to confront collation soldiers in Iraq rather than your country weather it be USA, Great Brittan, Russia, or Spain. On another note Australia is gearing up for a terrorist attack. Check it out http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1419352.htm

Kill all terrorists(religious extremists) let Allah sort em out.
 
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