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Religion is intelligent

kal-el

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What do you guys think? I would think that anything that has the means to control the masses via fictional stories, is anything but dumb. For someone to come up with these stories in order to suffice our pride, and that we were meant for something greater is pure genious!
 

HU-210

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I do not think that a teaching in itself can be intelligent, or even the usage thereof. After all, the perception of intelligent acts or traits is very much dominated by our own perspectives thereon.

Still, if sociologists are correct, religions have a function, and are automatically created to deal with the high mortality rate. The decline of religion in recent times might be a lower mortality rate. Whatever cause, however, there is no reason to suppose a system of religion, at least at large, is chosen, and thus there is no real intelligent choice in picking a religion either.

Mr U
 

kal-el

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Ohh, the teaching itself isn't intelligent, or even the usage. But for a few to possibly come up with so called "teachings" to condition the masses, is in itself, nothing short of amazing. The promise of immortality is indeed highly attractive, not to mention the assertion that we have souls that escape from our bodies after death, disuades our prideful egos.
 

aps

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kal-el said:
Ohh, the teaching itself isn't intelligent, or even the usage. But for a few to possibly come up with so called "teachings" to condition the masses, is in itself, nothing short of amazing. The promise of immortality is indeed highly attractive, not to mention the assertion that we have souls that escape from our bodies after death, disuades our prideful egos.
How is it possible that very intelligent people can be so easily manipulated by religion? I just don't get it.
 

ngdawg

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Two reasons:
1) everyone wants to believe that if they do good things, they will be rewarded. Why do anything if there's no pay-off?(even if you consider happiness a pay-off)
2) no one wants to think that when they die, that's it. gotta be more...I can't just rot like a leaf, right?
OK, just thought of a third reason:
3) justification. 'God' told me. 'God' has the power. If 'God' wants it to be so, it will be so.
 

kal-el

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aps said:
How is it possible that very intelligent people can be so easily manipulated by religion? I just don't get it.
For the very reasons ngdawg stated. It dosen't take a great mind to be scared to die; hence the idea of an afterlife can be very promising. In my experience, Bible-thumpers seem to be very intelligent, reasonable, logical thinking people, except when it comes to the bible.
 

aps

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ngdawg said:
Two reasons:
1) everyone wants to believe that if they do good things, they will be rewarded. Why do anything if there's no pay-off?(even if you consider happiness a pay-off)
2) no one wants to think that when they die, that's it. gotta be more...I can't just rot like a leaf, right?
OK, just thought of a third reason:
3) justification. 'God' told me. 'God' has the power. If 'God' wants it to be so, it will be so.
kal-el said:
For the very reasons ngdawg stated. It dosen't take a great mind to be scared to die; hence the idea of an afterlife can be very promising. In my experience, Bible-thumpers seem to be very intelligent, reasonable, logical thinking people, except when it comes to the bible.
I totally agree. While I don't believe in God, I don't need him to make me be a decent person. I am absolutely fine with knowing that when I die, it's caput.
 

kal-el

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aps said:
I totally agree. While I don't believe in God, I don't need him to make me be a decent person. I am absolutely fine with knowing that when I die, it's caput.
Yes, exactly. I think, being is there is no definite guarantee of an afterlife, we should all strive to make the most out of our lives, we might just end up being roadkill when we die.
 

aps

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kal-el said:
Yes, exactly. I think, being is there is no definite guarantee of an afterlife, we should all strive to make the most out of our lives, we might just end up being roadkill when we die.
You and I almost always agree. :cool:
 

Stace

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Eh.....I'm not so sold on the whole religion thing. I'm not convinced that there is any sort of life after death.....guess I'll find out when I die, right?

I don't need to derive my opinions on things based on what someone else has said is right....I'm perfectly capable of thinking for myself and determining my own ideas of right and wrong.

What else?

Oh yeah....I don't think people should need motivation, so to speak, to do good things. They should do them simply because they WANT to, because they want to better themselves, or help others, and not in pursuit of any sort of payoff.

That being said, I don't think religion as a whole is a bad thing. If it helps someone find meaning and purpose to their lives, that's awesome....right now, it's just not for me.
 

ngdawg

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Even to better themselves is a payoff. For every yin there's a yang. Those that adhere to their religious beliefs just seem to take it that one step further (my mother-in-law is the REAL 'Church Lady') and truly believe that everyone gets their 'just reward' after death.
While I don't believe really in any deity at all and I think that, for the most part, we do just 'die', I also believe there's something...energy, souls, something...too many coincidences in life that can't be written off as coincidence, but won't hijack this for that.
I see more of the 'justification' for things as being used in believing the bible-that anything can be explained away as "God's will", be it hurricanes, war or alcoholism. Of course, if a believer doesn't like how things go, ie; homosexualism, it's also 'God' who could 'fix it'....just reminds me of a 3 year old who doesn't want to be punished for breaking something, "wasn't ME, Momma-GOD did it!"
 

CaliNORML

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kal-el said:
What do you guys think? I would think that anything that has the means to control the masses via fictional stories, is anything but dumb. For someone to come up with these stories in order to suffice our pride, and that we were meant for something greater is pure genious!
Does this definition of religion include the mass media today as well?

Watching the BBC and other world news sources I see a huge spin on the stories as reported by strictly American media and how they are reported by the other countries.

Fiction? Probably on the line but truly slanted none the less. Slanted to the American Pride point of view and how they want us to pridefully view the rest of the world.


KMS
 
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HU-210

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Amazing? I would not call the scripture, the Bible or the Quran amazing. There are far more intricate moral belief system that tap closer on the nature of human beings, and are thus able to create more stable societies.
If religion is engineered, its 'intelligence' can be studied, I would think, bu its resulting society. I give you the last 2000 years and ask you whether it is intelligent.

Personally, I can't judge, because the ideas that I have, have not yet been executed. Still, human beings as beings of conflict should always fare better in a system of conflict, than of artificial peace (that Christianity and Islam attempt to create).

Mr U
 

kal-el

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CaliNORML said:
Does this definition of religion include the mass media today as well?
Negative. Point out in my post where you seen the word "mass media".

Watching the BBC and other world news sources I see a huge spin on the stories as reported by strictly American media and how they are reported by the other countries.
Uhh, we're not talking about politics here. Try reading the title of the tread.

Fiction? Probably on the line but truly slanted none the less. Slanted to the American Pride point of view and how they want us to pridefully view the rest of the world.
Slanted? So you think the parting of the Red Sea was an actual event? Jonah being swallowed by a great fish really happened? A talking donkey? I guess this could seem non-fictional to someone if they have the ability to think themself through a corkscrew without twisting, of course, then you will think it's a reasonable explanation.
 

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kal-el said:
Negative. Point out in my post where you seen the word "mass media".

I only saw religion in the topic, not the definition

I read the title and your claims that "Anything" that can be used to create a feeling of pride and used to control people is intelligent.



Uhh, we're not talking about politics here. Try reading the title of the tread.

Isn't the majority of religion political? I did read this thread and religion is contained the header, however the way you described it, it also fits the mass media.



Slanted? So you think the parting of the Red Sea was an actual event? Jonah being swallowed by a great fish really happened? A talking donkey? I guess this could seem non-fictional to someone if they have the ability to think themself through a corkscrew without twisting, of course, then you will think it's a reasonable explanation.
I never said I believed these "stories" as such physical happenings. I am happy to see the abstract behind the actions that run in the same lines of all the stories through time, even way before religion was changed. I find the meaning and the lessons the stories contained within a metaphorical field, not a physical one.

Yet America believes the President when he puts his spin on a tale. The same way one faction believes they can wage a Holy War and have the right to rule over others through a simple tale.

Are stories slanted in our own media as baseless as they are in religion? Yes. Do these stories affect the way we view others and our world? Yes. Are they all totally true? No. That is the same mind set being created.

If the two were compared I would have to say politicians tell whoppers as big as that of Joanah.

Isn't this what you said was so intelligent about religion? The ability to use a story to control the masses for the tellers own ends?

KMS
 
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kal-el

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CaliNORML said:
I never said I believed these "stories" as such physical happenings. I am happy to see the abstract behind the actions that run in the same lines of all the stories through time, even way before religion was changed. I find the meaning and the lessons the stories contained within a metaphorical field, not a physical one.

Yet America believes the President when he puts his spin on a tale. The same way one faction believes they can wage a Holy War and have the right to rule over others through a simple tale.

Are stories slanted in our own media as baseless as they are in religion? Yes. Do these stories affect the way we view others and our world? Yes. Are they all totally true? No. That is the same mind set being created.

If the two were compared I would have to say politicians tell whoppers as big as that of Joanah.

Isn't this what you said was so intelligent about religion? The ability to use a story to control the masses for the tellers own ends?

KMS
I don't think the stories politicians tell are nearly in the same ballpark as the stories fabricated in the bible. Politicians don't tell stories that cleary can be ripped apart by simple logic and reason. (exception Bush's wmd claims :lol: ) But on the whole, political discourse pales in comparison with the fairy stories of the bible.
 

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Thanks for the giggle, I needed that. WMD was a whopper to be sure, bigger than that whale who swallowed Jonah I bet.

I appreciate the ear, and understand that most of the political direction the world is now turning seems to be "Faith" based. There are new programs being implimened with political directions and financing in the cases of abortion rights, learning disabilities, even run away children and the foster care system is moving towards more to religious views. I am still trying to figure out just who made this faith, as it is not mine to be sure.

What scares me is that this religious interpretation is being made government policy to restrict freedoms of citizens in America today. The media is geared towards showing us that this is a great thing. The control has gone from mere words in stories to actions directly effecting us today, and the majority of people it seems believe it to be a wonderfull thing.

We no longer have the right to say if we believe in what is happening or not, it is becoming law. No longer ruled by only our beliefs, which are then turned into actions; actions of some form of belief are being pressed upon us, all from the view of a "Faith." These policies have effectively gained control over us all, whether we like it or not based on spiritual principals.

The control of the masses is helped through the media to gain this "faith based" foothold in our society, and it is almost enough to shake my own personal faith of humanity in the process.

KMS
 
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kal-el

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CaliNORML said:
Thanks for the giggle, I needed that. WMD was a whopper to be sure, bigger than that whale who swallowed Jonah I bet.
No problem. I thought you'd find it quite funny.

I appreciate the ear, and understand that most of the political direction the world is now turning seems to be "Faith" based. There are new programs being implimened with political directions and financing in the cases of abortion rights, learning disabilities, even run away children and the foster care system is moving towards more to religious views. I am still trying to figure out just who made this faith, as it is not mine to be sure.
Yes, but what does this have to do with religion is intelligent? But I see what you are getting at, it seems George Bush thinks he has some epic calling, of some sorts, that gives him power to enact certain programs, and sell them as "faith based" initiaitives.

What scares me is that this religious interpretation is being made government policy to restrict freedoms of citizens in America today. The media is geared to showing us that this is a great thing. The control has gone from mere words in stories to actions directly effecting us today, and the majority of people it seems believe it to be a wonderfull thing.
You're preaching to the choir, here. I totally agree.

We no longer have the right to say if we believe in what is happening or not, it is becoming law. No longer ruled by only our beliefs, which are then turned into actions; actions of some form of belief are being pressed upon us, all from the view of a "Faith." These policies have effectively gained control over us all, whether we like it or not based on spiritual principals.
Yep.

The control of the masses is helped through the media to gain this "faith based" foothold in our society, and it is almost enough to shake my own personal faith of humanity in the process.
Dude, it's like I'm speaking through your mouth here.:2razz:
 

CaliNORML

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Intelligence in a principal such as "I scratch your back and you scratch mine" is a true statment and if implimented correctly, all members are helped none more than another. This is an intelligent statement.

A monkey having the intelligence to realize that if he always moves to the front of the line, thus he never has to scratch another back instead only recieve, is intelligent.

Yet for the over all good, what action is the most intelligent?


KMS

P.S. It's dudess.
 
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