Rejecting Israel's Influence over Congress, Rashida Tlaib Plans to Lead Delegation to Palestine

[Fishking]

That's like saying the opposition to the 2003 invasion of Iraq was anti-American, just because it opposed the American government's wishes. There's simply nothing to it, as there's nothing to accusing the UN's human Rights council of antisemitism. :shrug:

Lol...only deep-seated anti-Semitic sentiments could result in such an assessment. I just don't get why the Jews are so hated world wide. I really don't. Nikki Haley did a good job at barely scratching the surface of how deep and pervasive these sentiments go.

 

[ecofarm]

It's not an invalid criticism to point out the ridiculousness of Saudi Arabia being anywhere close to the HRC. It's like saying the Nazi regime had a legitimate place at the table.

You are demonstrating ignorance. You do not understand the Head of the UNHRC position. It is not merit based. It is not leadership based. It is not an enforcement body. It is a diplomatic body. Its purpose is diplomacy.

People can understand how making a problem student the administrator for a day helps get them involved and calm them down. But you can't understand this. It remains a mystery to you. You think it's a legit criticism, like you have any ****ing clue what you're talking about.

What can I say? As someone with a strong stance regarding the UN, in agreement with your positions, all I can say is, "please, ****ing please, stop with the ignorant BS. You're hurting our argument. Why do you have to be right about every single little thing? You're wrong, you look stupid, stop it."

Only someone totally ignorant would be convinced by your idiotic claim. That makes it even worse. Anyone who knows anything about the UN, let alone the UNHRC, can instantly tell you have no idea what you're talking about. Is that what you want?

 

[oneworld2]

Racism is not a valid ideology in the 21st century.

What about the Israeli state racism directed towards the Palestinians ? You cannot be taken seriously if you support the racism dished out by the state of Israel in the treatment of the Palestinians but denounce other forms of racism .

I've pulled you about this before and you have swerved it every time

 

[oneworld2]

Saudi Arabia violates the rights of people all over the world. They are the biggest supporter of terrorism around the globe.

Oh please, sure they are the biggest supporters of radical Islamists groups around the globe but if you are going to go to this place you will have to accept that the US is the real serial killer of human rights around the world. I'll wager you have recoiled in horror at the allegation already but their imperialism and enforcement of the global capitalist system lays waste to the rights of billions of people globally every day of every year.

Further, Israel isn't violating the rights of 4 million people for 50 years.

Yes they are and it's obvious they are to any other than a small percentage of pro Israel extremists

70 years of human rights abuse

In 1948 over 750,000 Palestinians fled or were forced from their homes. They were fleeing conflict and violence – 600 Palestinian villages were sacked during this period. They fled to neighbouring states, and 70 years later they and their descendants are still refugees. Like all other refugees, Palestinians deserve to be able to determine their own futures and choose to return to their homes.

Since the Nakba Palestinians have endured countless horrific human rights abuses. Human rights defenders have been unjustly detained and arrested. Israeli forces have unlawfully killed thousands of Palestinians, including children. Torture and ill-treatment of Palestinian detainees, including children, continues rampant and unchallenged – over 300 Palestinian children, including Ahed Tamimi, are currently detained by Israeli authorities, completely breaking their duties under international law.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/ether/why-palestinians-risk-their-lives-their-rights

They are enacting policies and measures that keep them from being killed, which has been tried to so many times, and continues to happen. See post #49 for the context everyone wants to ignore.



Again, see post #49. You have no standing.

Nope , they thought and still think they have a God given right to ride rough shod over the Arabs as and when they choose. That's why they are forced to defend themselves. That's the context that's missing from your narrative

I have great sympathy for the Jews regarding their treatment throughout history but you don't allow that to blind you to the ill treatment they are dishing out , and have been dishing out to the Arabs since the birth of Zionism.

I have great sympathy for the suffering throughout history of African peoples too but I wouldn't allow it to have me cheer leading or defending any actions that saw them brutalizing and violating another people

Using the suffering of one group in order to defend the crimes against another is BS imo

As for post 49 you need to understand the dynamics and realities of what you speak

The rocket attacks can stop anytime Israel is prepared to negotiate and stick to an agreement with Hamas. They reject it

They have the ability to conclude a reasonable deal with the Palestinians if they are prepared to give up the greater Israel project. They reject it

The attacks you are probably referring to were in many cases acts of aggression by Israel against it's Arab neighbours that had precious little to do with national survival after the war of 48

Why were the Arabs forced to pay the price for the excesses and crimes of European antisemites ?

Why were a people forced into giving up their territory and possessions for a recent immigrant populations benefit ? You would not accept it but I suspect you think they should have

As I said earlier and you didn't attempt to answer. If you want to cherry pick from international law laws that suit your agenda but openly support the flouting of others because they don't you should not be taken seriously imo

Crying about group terrorism but supporting state terrorism is just a ridiculous position to hold

 

[Fledermaus]

Oh please, sure they are the biggest supporters of radical Islamists groups around the globe but if you are going to go to this place you will have to accept that the US is the real serial killer of human rights around the world. I'll wager you have recoiled in horror at the allegation already but their imperialism and enforcement of the global capitalist system lays waste to the rights of billions of people globally every day of every year.




Yes they are and it's obvious they are to any other than a small percentage of pro Israel extremists



https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/ether/why-palestinians-risk-their-lives-their-rights




Nope , they thought and still think they have a God given right to ride rough shod over the Arabs as and when they choose. That's why they are forced to defend themselves. That's the context that's missing from your narrative

I have great sympathy for the Jews regarding their treatment throughout history but you don't allow that to blind you to the ill treatment they are dishing out , and have been dishing out to the Arabs since the birth of Zionism.

I have great sympathy for the suffering throughout history of African peoples too but I wouldn't allow it to have me cheer leading or defending any actions that saw them brutalizing and violating another people

Using the suffering of one group in order to defend the crimes against another is BS imo

As for post 49 you need to understand the dynamics and realities of what you speak

The rocket attacks can stop anytime Israel is prepared to negotiate and stick to an agreement with Hamas. They reject it

They have the ability to conclude a reasonable deal with the Palestinians if they are prepared to give up the greater Israel project. They reject it

The attacks you are probably referring to were in many cases acts of aggression by Israel against it's Arab neighbours that had precious little to do with national survival after the war of 48

Why were the Arabs forced to pay the price for the excesses and crimes of European antisemites ?

Why were a people forced into giving up their territory and possessions for a recent immigrant populations benefit ? You would not accept it but I suspect you think they should have

As I said earlier and you didn't attempt to answer. If you want to cherry pick from international law laws that suit your agenda but openly support the flouting of others because they don't you should not be taken seriously imo

Crying about group terrorism but supporting state terrorism is just a ridiculous position to hold

In 1948 the Palestinians had a choice. Peace or war. They chose war.

They lost not only the territory they sought to conquer the remaining territories were taken by Egypt and Jordan.

Their choice.

Israel is now dealing with a terrorist entity in Gaza that is constantly carrying out both acts of terrorism and acts of war against the Israeli state and its civilians.

 

[Apocalypse]

You are demonstrating ignorance. You do not understand the Head of the UNHRC position. It is not merit based. It is not leadership based. It is not an enforcement body. It is a diplomatic body. Its purpose is diplomacy.

People can understand how making a problem student the administrator for a day helps get them involved and calm them down. But you can't understand this. It remains a mystery to you. You think it's a legit criticism, like you have any ****ing clue what you're talking about.

What can I say? As someone with a strong stance regarding the UN, in agreement with your positions, all I can say is, "please, ****ing please, stop with the ignorant BS. You're hurting our argument. Why do you have to be right about every single little thing? You're wrong, you look stupid, stop it."

Only someone totally ignorant would be convinced by your idiotic claim. That makes it even worse. Anyone who knows anything about the UN, let alone the UNHRC, can instantly tell you have no idea what you're talking about. Is that what you want?

Fishking is right eco.

While it's true that the position of being the head of such bodies is given to get the nations given it to take the subject into matter, the reality is that the antisemitic body known as the UNHRC was created for a logical and necessary purpose and that purpose is still attributed to it by many and as such when ill intentions carrying factions such as the Saudis or others are given that role they are being handed a form of power with which to use to serve the agenda they carry, which as one can understand from their human rights record is a very bad agenda by the moral standards of the civilized world who created that body to begin with.

It's like the difference between giving the bully of the class the role of choosing the fitting reward for the good behavior of the entire class and between giving that same bully the role of choosing who is punished.

 

[Apocalypse]

What about the Israeli state racism directed towards the Palestinians ? You cannot be taken seriously if you support the racism dished out by the state of Israel in the treatment of the Palestinians but denounce other forms of racism .

I've pulled you about this before and you have swerved it every time

I didn't change my view regarding anything, including my view that there's no such "state racism". There are cases of racism within Israel, and within the conflict zones, not "state racism". What you referred to as state racism was called out by others here as nonsense, hence I had no reason to intervene and call it nonsense myself - but it is what it is. You're deliberately mistaking Israeli acts to self defense as "Racism" so to do two things at the same time, that is smear Israel and deny the right of Israelis to defend their lives. As such it's the same old propaganda nonsense.

 

[ecofarm]

Fishking is right eco.

While it's true that the position of being the head of such bodies is given to get the nations given it to take the subject into matter, the reality is that the antisemitic body known as the UNHRC was created for a logical and necessary purpose and that purpose is still attributed to it by many and as such when ill intentions carrying factions such as the Saudis or others are given that role they are being handed a form of power with which to use to serve the agenda they carry, which as one can understand from their human rights record is a very bad agenda by the moral standards of the civilized world who created that body to begin with.

It's like the difference between giving the bully of the class the role of choosing the fitting reward for the good behavior of the entire class and between giving that same bully the role of choosing who is punished.

I agree it's antisemitic, but the whole "the Head is in charge" is BS. Learn why those nations are assigned that position. It's absurd to paint it as the UN ignoring their records. Their records got them the position. You have it backwards.

 

[Apocalypse]

I agree it's antisemitic, but the whole "the Head is in charge" is BS. Learn why those nations are assigned that position. It's absurd to paint it as the UN ignoring their records. Their records got them the position. You have it backwards.

Which is what I said, while at the same time explaining why it is a bad form of action.

 

[ecofarm]

Which is what I said, while at the same time explaining why it is a bad form of action.

One can't be "look who they put there!" without being ignorant. They don't know what the deal is. So why listen to them.

 

[oneworld2]

I didn't change my view regarding anything, including my view that there's no such "state racism". There are cases of racism within Israel, and within the conflict zones, not "state racism". What you referred to as state racism was called out by others here as nonsense, hence I had no reason to intervene and call it nonsense myself - but it is what it is. You're deliberately mistaking Israeli acts to self defense as "Racism" so to do two things at the same time, that is smear Israel and deny the right of Israelis to defend their lives. As such it's the same old propaganda nonsense.

I never claimed that you changed your mind

Yes there most definitely is Israeli state racism against the Palestinians. Off the top of my head............

There is an anti Arab racism with regards to the Palestinians right to build homes with planning permission being denied them,. Much of which is not even in Israeli territory

Israeli only roads in Palestinian territory. This is explained away as a security measure. The elephant in the room being that the people using it are illegally residing in that territory. They have no legal right to be there and so the Palestinians are denied access to roads illegally built on their territory without their permission on grounds of security for illegal immigrants

To try to explain all of the above away on grounds of illegal settler security shows an extreme racism all by itself

Military courts for Palestinians in the West Bank but civilian courts for illegal settlers there

Live rounds used against Palestinian protesters but never against Jewish protesters

Has the state of Israel ever demolished the houses of Jewish terrorists as punishment for their terrorist acts ? We all know they have with Palestinians

There are some to be going on with for now

 

[Apocalypse]

I never claimed that you changed your mind

Yes there most definitely is Israeli state racism against the Palestinians. Off the top of my head............

There is an anti Arab racism with regards to the Palestinians right to build homes with planning permission being denied them,. Much of which is not even in Israeli territory

Where?

Israeli only roads in Palestinian territory.

Self-defense not wanting Palestinians to murder Israelis. It's the only reason.

This is explained away as a security measure. The elephant in the room being that the people using it are illegally residing in that territory. They have no legal right to be there and so the Palestinians are denied access to roads illegally built on their territory without their permission on grounds of security for illegal immigrants

It's irrelevant, the lives of humans are the same lives and the right to self-defense is of the greatest importance.

To try to explain all of the above away on grounds of illegal settler security shows an extreme racism all by itself

Propaganda nonsense.

Military courts for Palestinians in the West Bank but civilian courts for illegal settlers there

Legitimate. Israeli citizens can be judged by Israeli law. Arab or Jewish Israeli citizens.

Live rounds used against Palestinian protesters but never against Jewish protesters

Pathetic argument. If there was a need to use live rounds it means a threat to the security forces and this sets the difference.

Has the state of Israel ever demolished the houses of Jewish terrorists as punishment for their terrorist acts ? We all know they have with Palestinians

Again pathetic argument, how many Jewish terrorists were there? And Palestinian? The destruction of houses is a deterrence policy due to the frequency of Palestinian terrorism.

There are some to be going on with for now

Which is exactly nothing. Needless to say but even if you did manage to show these acts of self-defense as discriminating against Palestinians as you desired to it's still not racism. Arab citizens of Israel, for example, have none of that going for them.

 

[oneworld2]

Where?

Area C and East Jerusalem

Self-defense not wanting Palestinians to murder Israelis. It's the only reason.

There should be no Israelis there. That you can dismiss the fact that these Israelis are illegals that are violating the rights of the Palestinians by illegally residing in their territory shows just how extreme and unjust your view really is

It's irrelevant, the lives of humans are the same lives and the right to self-defense is of the greatest importance.

What do you mean " it's irrelevant " ? What are you even saying here ?

The elephant in the room being that the people using it are illegally residing in that territory. They have no legal right to be there and so the Palestinians are denied access to roads illegally built on their territory without their permission on grounds of security for illegal immigrants

How can the above be " irrelevant " ? There is only one way to interpret that . It's " irrelevant " because the rights of illegal Jewish settlers trump the rights of Palestinians living in their own territory. Once again that's about as racist a position as a person can hold

Legitimate. Israeli citizens can be judged by Israeli law. Arab or Jewish Israeli citizens.

Truly bizarre !

I am talking about the Palestinians in Palestinian territory , obviously. So why have you ignored that to talk about different people altogether ?

Pathetic argument. If there was a need to use live rounds it means a threat to the security forces and this sets the difference.

It's your own argument that's pathetic

A stone thrown by a Palestinian is no more dangerous than a stone thrown by a Jew. You know that the Haredi Jews have thrown stones at police , cars , gays , women etc etc and yet they are not shot at with live fire as the Palestinians are

Again pathetic argument, how many Jewish terrorists were there? And Palestinian? The destruction of houses is a deterrence policy due to the frequency of Palestinian terrorism.

Did they bulldoze Barruch Goldstein house ?

Did they bulldoze the houses of those that murdered Abu Khdair ?

What about those settler terrorists that murdered 18 month old Ali Dawabsheh and his parents ?

That you defend a collective punishment if it is carried out by the state of Israel is only to be expected seeing as you also defend the murders of any protesters shot. That's why you self proclaimed moral integrity is only believed by yourself and roundly dismissed by anyone familiar with your posts

Which is exactly nothing. Needless to say but even if you did manage to show these acts of self-defense as discriminating against Palestinians as you desired to it's still not racism. Arab citizens of Israel, for example, have none of that going for them.

It is " nothing " to you because you live in a complete bubble where Israel and it's people / forces have never done anything wrong. Any crimes can be dismissed as " self defence "

You will never see the racism ,not because it doesn't exist , but because you prefer self deceit to facts

The absolute and undeniable racism in the reply you concocted doesn't surprise me tbh but should serve as a good reference point to others imo

 

[Apocalypse]

What do you mean " it's irrelevant " ? What are you even saying here ?

That your opinion regarding the occupation and whether or not people who are Jews should be allowed to live in that territory is irrelevant to whether or not they have the right to life which is the most basic right of all.
Palestinians can use other roads. Having the terrorists among them freely murdering Jews is not an acceptable situation unfortuantely to you.

Truly bizarre !

I am talking about the Palestinians in Palestinian territory , obviously. So why have you ignored that to talk about different people altogether ?

You were talking about how Palestinians who aren't Israeli citizens aren't judged by Israeli civil courts and rather by military courts. The very question is ridiculous.

A stone thrown by a Palestinian is no more dangerous than a stone thrown by a Jew. You know that the Haredi Jews have thrown stones at police , cars , gays , women etc etc and yet they are not shot at with live fire as the Palestinians are

First of all Israeli rules of engagement don't allow shooting at someone for throwing a stone but rather only in cases of life threatening situations, otherwise we'd have thousands of dead violent Palestinians every week.
Secondly a person who doesn't threaten the forces can clearly be arrested while not being shot, while a person who threatens their lives cannot be just arrested without being neutralized first.
Again the argument is a pathetic one.

Did they bulldoze Barruch Goldstein house ?

If such acts as Goldstein's massacre were frequent as Palestinian terrorism or at least coming close to being as frequent I'm sure there would need to be further decisions on ways to create a greater deterrence.
Another stupid argument.

It is " nothing " to you because you live in a complete bubble where Israel and it's people / forces have never done anything wrong. Any crimes can be dismissed as " self defence "

It's just you getting angry at how self-defense can be applied to Israelis, at how the logic and the facts of reality are in the way of your attempt to smear and lie about the nature of such policies and actions.
I also don't understand your constant attempts to stick a racism label to your opposition when you seem to be so much in favor of the concept of racism with your antisemitic agenda here.

 

[JBG]

The pro-Israel lobby has a coming crisis on their hands, as many Jewish groups have been at the forefront of changing the demographics of the USA and Europe for several decades. Now the children of Palestinian & Somali iimmigrants are getting elected to Congress, as the children of Pakistani immigrants have been elected to Parliament in the UK. They are much less likely to be supportive of a monolithic Israel, and some like Tlaib support BDS.

I don't know where to start to rebut this pure BS. Many people have stated that our alliance with Israel is based upon the fact that they are Western and to some extent that they are "white." Putting aside the fact that many Israelis are of Middle Eastern origin and some are black, i.e. the Falashas of Ethiopian descent, Israel is a major, probably indispensable Western asset.

Israel is vital to U.S. and overall Western interests in ways that may not be totally obvious. If you are familiar with WW II history, Hitler controlled Europe to the Atlantic Ocean. Spain and Portugal were "neutral in favor of the Axis." Italy was separated from most of Europe by the Alps, and in any event was not conquered until sometime in late 1943 or early 1944.

The only usable avenues of attack to regain Europe was on the beaches of France; Normandy and/or Calais. The battle to make a beachhead was a bloodbath. Israel is a giant "Normandy" in the Middle East, a fraught and unstable area. Should the West need to enter the Middle East militarily, Israel is the only country that, as a stable democracy, that can be counted on as a springboard. That is why some Arab countries and groups want Israel out so desperately. Knocking off Israel knocks the West out of a large chunk of the world.

During the Obama years, his approach was that there is really only one world and that no country's military should dominate. A beautiful dream and a recipe for chaos. I feel that most Presidents and especially their Defense Departments understood the essential role Israel played. The State Department, in general, has considered Israel to be an obstacle to peace. Over the years, during the Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton and Trump years (Ford and Carter were decidedly of two minds, as was Obama, and Eisenhower was hostile to Israel) the U.S. has been pro-Israel or neutral in favor of Israel.

I consider that we should be allied to Israel both as based on ideological similarities, i.e. it's a democracy, and for strategic purposes. I consider undermining Israel's legitimacy to verge on treason.

The dream of the American Democratic party is to wrest political control from what they see as a white male dominated political system. But the typical white men and women in government have been much more receptive to AIPAC and the Israeli lobby than many ethnic minorities. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez even referred to Israel as 'occupied territory' this past summer. She's noticeably toned down her speech concerning Israel, the reasons remaining to be seen.

Perhaps the Jewish people have been major contributors to the well-being of the U.S. and the world?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Israel doesn't even place in the top 10 countries that spend the most to influence US policy:

Which foreign countries spend the most to influence U.S. politics?

The UAE, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Canada pretty much dominate across the board.

Israel is a nothingburger.

 

[truthatallcost]

I don't know where to start to rebut this pure BS. Many people have stated that our alliance with Israel is based upon the fact that they are Western and to some extent that they are "white." Putting aside the fact that many Israelis are of Middle Eastern origin and some are black, i.e. the Falashas of Ethiopian descent, Israel is a major, probably indispensable Western asset.

I know of no argument in favor of Israel based on race. As seen throughout the I/P section, Israelis abhor being termed as white. They see themselves as some 'other' race, which science hasn't confirmed, yet nevertheless is real in their mind. Israel does not practice racial inclusivity in the same manner of Western nations. There's a multitude of data which illuminates the many racist attitudes and practices which comprise the norm in Israel. You have to seek out this data however, mainstream American news sources rarely depict it accurately.

Israel is vital to U.S. and overall Western interests in ways that may not be totally obvious. If you are familiar with WW II history, Hitler controlled Europe to the Atlantic Ocean. Spain and Portugal were "neutral in favor of the Axis." Italy was separated from most of Europe by the Alps, and in any event was not conquered until sometime in late 1943 or early 1944.

The only usable avenues of attack to regain Europe was on the beaches of France; Normandy and/or Calais. The battle to make a beachhead was a bloodbath. Israel is a giant "Normandy" in the Middle East, a fraught and unstable area. Should the West need to enter the Middle East militarily, Israel is the only country that, as a stable democracy, that can be counted on as a springboard. That is why some Arab countries and groups want Israel out so desperately. Knocking off Israel knocks the West out of a large chunk of the world.

Our springboard has typically been Saudi Arabia, which was used during for the Persian Gulf War, Iraq War, etc, etc.

We've operated 5 military bases in Saudi Arabia for many years. In spite of the $100 billion in aid we've given to Israel in the past 30 years, we were not even granted 1 military base until Trump's first year in the White House, which Israel unabashedly stated was for their benefit, to help their air capabilities.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-us-establishes-permanent-military-base-in-israel/

During the Obama years, his approach was that there is really only one world and that no country's military should dominate. A beautiful dream and a recipe for chaos. I feel that most Presidents and especially their Defense Departments understood the essential role Israel played. The State Department, in general, has considered Israel to be an obstacle to peace. Over the years, during the Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton and Trump years (Ford and Carter were decidedly of two minds, as was Obama, and Eisenhower was hostile to Israel) the U.S. has been pro-Israel or neutral in favor of Israel.

One cannot over state the level of influence that Israel and its supporters in the West play in Western politics. Prior to the late 1950's to 1960's, Americans didn't pay any special favor to Israel, and weren't the tireless devotees they are now. Years of propaganda in media, Hollywood and the like have managed to radically change that. Plus the rise of Islamic terrorism in Europe and the USA has benefitted Israel to no end. Netanyahu boasted of the increased support for Israel after 9/11, with the glee of a child who'd received exactly the gift he'd wanted for Christmas. In a very perverse way, Israel has a vested interest in Islamic terrorism perpetrated upon Europeans and Americans.

I consider that we should be allied to Israel both as based on ideological similarities, i.e. it's a democracy, and for strategic purposes. I consider undermining Israel's legitimacy to verge on treason.

That's grossly absurd, bordering on treasonous in its own right. As Israel continues to help build up China's arsenal and weapons technology, here you are asserting that anything less than a pledge to Israel is treasonous. Maybe you should research how your good buddies over in Israel have repeatedly stabbed us in the back for the last 40 years, by being China's arms dealer. Where's the strategic advantage in Israel helping to advance our biggest military threat??

Perhaps the Jewish people have been major contributors to the well-being of the U.S. and the world?

That's a very broad statement, which I doubt you've really given much thought to. It's also another topic entirely removed from the OP. And if I were to offer a strong rebuttal to that statement, I'll only hear predictable accusations in reply.

 

[truthatallcost]

Israel doesn't even place in the top 10 countries that spend the most to influence US policy:

Which foreign countries spend the most to influence U.S. politics?

The UAE, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Canada pretty much dominate across the board.

Israel is a nothingburger.

They don't have to, their American supporters do it for them Abba.

https://m.jpost.com/US-Elections/US...-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774

Think outside of the box Abba.

 

[CJ 2.0]

I know of no argument in favor of Israel based on race. As seen throughout the I/P section, Israelis abhor being termed as white. They see themselves as some 'other' race, which science hasn't confirmed, yet nevertheless is real in their mind. Israel does not practice racial inclusivity in the same manner of Western nations. There's a multitude of data which illuminates the many racist attitudes and practices which comprise the norm in Israel. You have to seek out this data however, mainstream American news sources rarely depict it accurately.



Our springboard has typically been Saudi Arabia, which was used during for the Persian Gulf War, Iraq War, etc, etc.

We've operated 5 military bases in Saudi Arabia for many years. In spite of the $100 billion in aid we've given to Israel in the past 30 years, we were not even granted 1 military base until Trump's first year in the White House, which Israel unabashedly stated was for their benefit, to help their air capabilities.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-us-establishes-permanent-military-base-in-israel/



One cannot over state the level of influence that Israel and its supporters in the West play in Western politics. Prior to the late 1950's to 1960's, Americans didn't pay any special favor to Israel, and weren't the tireless devotees they are now. Years of propaganda in media, Hollywood and the like have managed to radically change that. Plus the rise of Islamic terrorism in Europe and the USA has benefitted Israel to no end. Netanyahu boasted of the increased support for Israel after 9/11, with the glee of a child who'd received exactly the gift he'd wanted for Christmas. In a very perverse way, Israel has a vested interest in Islamic terrorism perpetrated upon Europeans and Americans.



That's grossly absurd, bordering on treasonous in its own right. As Israel continues to help build up China's arsenal and weapons technology, here you are asserting that anything less than a pledge to Israel is treasonous. Maybe you should research how your good buddies over in Israel have repeatedly stabbed us in the back for the last 40 years, by being China's arms dealer. Where's the strategic advantage in Israel helping to advance our biggest military threat??



That's a very broad statement, which I doubt you've really given much thought to. It's also another topic entirely removed from the OP. And if I were to offer a strong rebuttal to that statement, I'll only hear predictable accusations in reply.

I for one would welcome your “strong rebuttal” on the last point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Abbazorkzog]

They don't have to, their American supporters do it for them Abba.

...

You do realize that Americans who support the countries I listed above do exist right? In ADDITION to having the most money.

Israel is out of its league. Only anti-Judaic conspiracy theorists believe Israel rules the world or something when really its essentially a satellite nation of America.

 

[SDET]

...

You do realize that Americans who support the countries I listed above do exist right? In ADDITION to having the most money.

Israel is out of its league. Only anti-Judaic conspiracy theorists believe Israel rules the world or something when really its essentially a satellite nation of America.

Which means that Israel is a force for truth and justice!

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Which means that Israel is a force for truth and justice!

I'm certain most Israelis are good people who mean well. The State as an institution, no matter where in the world or of what people/culture/society it may be at a given time, is capable of more violence and terror than one can imagine. This goes for a Palestinian State as well (at least to Israeli and non-Arab civilians).

 

[truthatallcost]

...

You do realize that Americans who support the countries I listed above do exist right? In ADDITION to having the most money.

Are they using their money to influence foreign policy the way pro-Israel forces are?

Israel is out of its league. Only anti-Judaic conspiracy theorists believe Israel rules the world or something when really its essentially a satellite nation of America.

For being a nation of 8 million, they have undue influence over life in the USA and Europe, and that influence doesn't benefit the majority of Americans & Europeans. That's my belief, not that they rule the world.

 

[truthatallcost]

I for one would welcome your “strong rebuttal” on the last point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The subject isn't relevant to this thread, but if you want to start a thread based around that premise I'll comment.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Are they using their money to influence foreign policy the way pro-Israel forces are?

...Yes... yes, they are. Or have the last 18 years of warfare in the middle-east suddenly slipped by you? Germany and Canada were the most militant, pro-invasion countries in Afghanistan (and Iraq with Canada) besides the US and Britain themselves. Saudi Arabia and the UAE possess the second and seventh-largest reserves of oil in the world. And do I need even mention the Mexican Drug Cartels and Wars that have been ongoing for decades? Israel-Palestine doesn't hold a candle to those, or - let alone - Iraq. Did we find any WMD's? Oh, yeah, that's right, we were there for oil for Saudi and UAE, not nonexistent WMDs.

For being a nation of 8 million, they have undue influence over life in the USA and Europe, and that influence doesn't benefit the majority of Americans & Europeans. That's my belief, not that they rule the world.

Oh, that's right, my apologies, slight addendum, you believe they "have undue influence over life in the USA and the entire ****ing continent of Europe, aka, the Western World..."