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Regarding Secession...

Goshin

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You can only command another person if they agree or if they agree to buckle to your will. If they never buckle then you can never command them.



Yabbit, there's always the old "shoot them in the head" trick. :)
 

Tigerace117

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Why is leaving due to an election not good cause? If you have been losing elections for quite some time then likely the country itself is too far gone for you to be happy in it.

Because it's the equivalent of trying go to steal the ball and go home. It's immature. Perhaps instead of seceding you should consider what in your philosophy makes it unlikely for people to vote for you.
 

SailaWay

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this secession is not men against men.. this is conservatives against liberals...the 40% conservatives in NY has more power than the 60% who votes liberal.. those will not fight the conservative states nd they are MEN
 

Henrin

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Yabbit, there's always the old "shoot them in the head" trick. :)

Of course killing them is not commanding them. In fact, when you go to a man to make him do your will and end by killing him you leave with just as many people under your command as you came with.
 

Henrin

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Because it's the equivalent of trying go to steal the ball and go home. It's immature. Perhaps instead of seceding you should consider what in your philosophy makes it unlikely for people to vote for you.

Wanting to live in a land that respects my views is not childish and hardly immature. You can only be ignored by a people you are attempting to work with for so long until it is obvious that the partnership is not worthy to stand.
 

SailaWay

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the sat math test measures logic... but logic can be measured in other ways if one cannot read for example.. inventors are inventors because of logic NOT education.. predictors comes from logic and not education.. prophets come from logic and not education... the world gets controlled by logic and their inventions NOT education
 

Tigerace117

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Wanting to live in a land that respects my views is not childish and hardly immature. You can only work with a people for so long until it is obvious that the partnership is not worthy to stand.

Then move. If you dislike the country so much, well, there's plenty of others in the world.
 

Henrin

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Then move. If you dislike the country so much, well, there's plenty of others in the world.

Of course your views are everywhere, so yeah.

My views far better represent what this land was meant to be, so this is where my fight is.
 

Goshin

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Of course killing them is not commanding them. In fact, when you go to a man to make him do your will and end by killing him you leave with just as many people under your command as you came with.



Well actually if done right, you can leave with lots more followers... all those who DON'T want to get shot in the head. :)


I know I'm being facetious about something grim, but seriously that's how lots of dictatorships and other tyrannies keep power: maintain a privileged class that supports the system because they're in the top drawer, and periodically shoot a few refuseniks. Working well in China.



We both know the answer of course: when the oppressed start shooting back.
 

Goshin

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Because it's the equivalent of trying go to steal the ball and go home. It's immature. Perhaps instead of seceding you should consider what in your philosophy makes it unlikely for people to vote for you.




Hmm. Counter-examples: The election of Hamas to govern Palestine; the election of Hugo Chavez to govern Venezuela into the ground.... etc.





Sometimes, elections can have severe consequences.
 

Tigerace117

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Of course your views are everywhere, so yeah.

My views far better represent what this land was meant to be, so this is where my fight is.

I hear Orban's Hungary and Putinist Russia are lovely this time of year.
 

Grand Mal

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yep might makes RIGHT...and that comes from the ones with the highest logical thinking ability because they invent to control the world look at who supports liberalism and who supports conservatism..check their IQ's check who are hillarys supporters to see if she is elected how there will be a revolt to stop that harm of electing harm... soon there will be.. THE CONSERVATIVE STATES OF AMERICA

Beware the jabberwock, my son, the jaws that bite and claws that catch.
Beware the jujub bird and shun the frumious bandersnatch.
 

Tigerace117

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Hmm. Counter-examples: The election of Hamas to govern Palestine; the election of Hugo Chavez to govern Venezuela into the ground.... etc.






Sometimes, elections can have severe consequences.

Chavez did a decent job for a while. Things weren't great, but they didn't really fall apart until after his death. I don't see how trying to set up an independent country would have really helped tbh.

Palestine is tiny. I don't honestly think there's even enough resources for two separate states on what's left.

Part of the risk you pay in a democracy is that people might not agree with what you do, and there's enough of them to elect somebody who in the long run is bad for the country.
 

Goshin

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Chavez did a decent job for a while. Things weren't great, but they didn't really fall apart until after his death. I don't see how trying to set up an independent country would have really helped tbh.

Palestine is tiny. I don't honestly think there's even enough resources for two separate states on what's left.

Part of the risk you pay in a democracy is that people might not agree with what you do, and there's enough of them to elect somebody who in the long run is bad for the country.


The examples in question weren't to say "they should have seceded", necessarily.

My point was that elections have consequences, and sometimes those consequences are much more severe than just "I didn't get My Way".
 

Henrin

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Well actually if done right, you can leave with lots more followers... all those who DON'T want to get shot in the head. :)


I know I'm being facetious about something grim, but seriously that's how lots of dictatorships and other tyrannies keep power: maintain a privileged class that supports the system because they're in the top drawer, and periodically shoot a few refuseniks. Working well in China.



We both know the answer of course: when the oppressed start shooting back.

Yes, fear is a great motivator to get people to obey, but of course as shown by even dictatorships the idea can only work on most people and only for so long. Eventually people get sick and tired of seeing their friends and family shot in the head.
 

the_recruit

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As a matter of principle, agreed. Who judges this, though?

Well I don't think there is an arbiter for this kind of thing. So the concerned parties involved make their own judgments I suppose.

Did the US have sufficient cause to break with Britain?

**** yeah! Have you seen the goofy wigs the Brits wear? I wouldn't want to associate with them either... :lol:

Did Britain have sufficient cause to break with the EU?

This is a little bit different. The EU explicitly grants member-states a process for leaving of their own accord. It's not quite the same for a state here in 'Murica. So the Brexit is perfectly legitimate. But it's also a short-sighted mistake as far as I'm concerned.

Does Texas have just cause to break with the US? What if you don't think so but a majority of Texans did? Isn't it their place to decide their own fate? Free country and so on?

For what reason though? If Texas wants to leave just because they're unhappy with Obamacare or deficit spending I say no.
 

Tigerace117

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The examples in question weren't to say "they should have seceded", necessarily.

My point was that elections have consequences, and sometimes those consequences are much more severe than just "I didn't get My Way".

That's true.
 

Tigerace117

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Can you give me some reasons why I would want to live there?

Hm. They don't like Muslims; they don't like the West; they don't like liberals; they follow a "strict interpretation".
 

Henrin

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Hm. They don't like Muslims; they don't like the West; they don't like liberals; they follow a "strict interpretation".

Ummm...I have nothing against Muslims. :/

And I can live with classical liberals. Modern liberals however need to be thrown off a cliff with their socialists BFF tied to them.
 

Tigerace117

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Ummm...I have nothing against Muslims. :/

And I can live with classical liberals. Modern liberals however need to be thrown off a cliff with their socialists BFF tied to them.
Any cliff in specific?

Russia has plenty of mountains.
 
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