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Reform Judaism’s Leader Criticizes Religious Right for Intolerance

Caine

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Whew! Its about time SOMEONE spoke up!
Althought its still not on a level that attracts national headlines im sure, but its something.
I don't know about other groups speaking up against the "Christian Right" but maybe if you have some info on that you could post it as well.

Rabbi Yoffie said:
Yoffie said the lay leaders and clergy assembled “are religious Jews, gathered in Houston to study, pray, and commit ourselves to God. And yes, we are generally liberal in our politics,” adding, “our liberalism flows directly from our religious commitments.”

Drawing the distinction even further between a liberal religious believer and the Religious Right, Yoffie continued, saying that the former believe that “’family values’ requires providing health care to every child and that God cares about the 12 million children without health insurance.

“It means valuing a child with diabetes over a frozen embryo in a fertility clinic, and seeing the teaching of science as a primary social good.

And it means reserving the right for each person to prayerfully make decisions for herself about when she dies.”

And, he said, “it means believing in legal protection for gay couples,” noting that there is room for disagreement about gay marriage, “but there is no excuse for hateful rhetoric that fuels the hellfires of anti-gay bigotry.”

Yoffie accused the Religious Right of refusing to acknowledge that there are religious perspectives different from its own, and of misreading religious texts sacred to both Christians and Jews. He noted that “the Bible, both Hebrew and Christian, has far more to say about caring for the poor than about eradicating sexual sin.”
http://urj.org/pr/2005/051119c/
 

Apostle13

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I was just curious Caine... What is your take on the Messianic Jews?
I recognize that the Jewish people are "The apple of God's eye" as the scripture so states. The True Believers acknowledge this. Evangelicals (as am I) and I as a pastor teach that if you say you love God and yet you despise the Jews... The Love of God is not in you. We are friends of the Jews and have given/raised much in the interests of russian jews that they may return to Israel.

http://ifcj.org/site/PageServer?pagename=programs_wings

I think I read in one of your posts that you were converting to Judahism..?
Is that to say you were not born as such?
Again just curious.

But for the record I don't agree with much of Rabbi Yoffie's
assertions/interpretives...But then I tend a little to the right on moral/social matters.
 

Caine

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Apostle13 said:
I was just curious Caine... What is your take on the Messianic Jews?
I recognize that the Jewish people are "The apple of God's eye" as the scripture so states. The True Believers acknowledge this. Evangelicals (as am I) and I as a pastor teach that if you say you love God and yet you despise the Jews... The Love of God is not in you. We are friends of the Jews and have given/raised much in the interests of russian jews that they may return to Israel.

http://ifcj.org/site/PageServer?pagename=programs_wings

I think I read in one of your posts that you were converting to Judahism..?
Is that to say you were not born as such?
Again just curious.

But for the record I don't agree with much of Rabbi Yoffie's
assertions/interpretives...But then I tend a little to the right on moral/social matters.

Messianic Jews? You mean that organization developed by a Protestant Christian to convert more Jews over to Jesus? That movement started in the 1970s, as another tricky way to trick Jews into converting, since in this day and age, something like the Inquisition wouldn't be liked too much.

I don't agree with all Yoffies stances, Im not very Anti-Gun, being a combat veteran and a cop, I understand that the right to bear arms is important in defending yourself, whether it be as a cop or even in your own home.


I think you missed the point of me posting this article though. In the article he mentions getting together with other religious groups to speak out against these fundamentalist "Christian Right" people who think if you don't think like them your "goin' to hell". I don't think that the messages of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell are helping our nation, and I think its time for all the christians out there who disagree with these guys to stand up and get some attention, be heard, etc. etc, etc.

People like Pat and Jerry make Christians look bad.

That and people like ptsdkid on this forum, and others....
 

Apostle13

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Caine said:
I think you missed the point of me posting this article though. In the article he mentions getting together with other religious groups to speak out against these fundamentalist "Christian Right" people who think if you don't think like them your "goin' to hell". I don't think that the messages of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell are helping our nation, and I think its time for all the christians out there who disagree with these guys to stand up and get some attention, be heard, etc. etc, etc.

People like Pat and Jerry make Christians look bad.

That and people like ptsdkid on this forum, and others....
No... I do understand the importance of unity, but it is and always will be confined and measured in separate by like-minded sorts. Thus, pride and intolerance. Were it possible/feasible even to unify religious factions it could only be resulted by a formulative compromise of our faiths.
Having said that, Christian unification is an unfolding in modern societies, denominational walls are falling fast, and nowhere is this more evident then in the U.S. It is an achieved product of our (Christians) acceptance/tolerance of differed beliefs/biblical interpretations thereof. Yet same God and Christ as our savior. Whereby, we attain unity without compromise.
Jesus prays for his followers to be unified:
"Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
Pat and Jerry what can I say... They are my Bro's
Did you meet the kids?
http://cbnworld.com/indexFrameset.asp?home=true
 

Caine

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Apostle13 said:
No... I do understand the importance of unity, but it is and always will be confined and measured in separate by like-minded sorts. Thus, pride and intolerance. Were it possible/feasible even to unify religious factions it could only be resulted by a formulative compromise of our faiths.
Having said that, Christian unification is an unfolding in modern societies, denominational walls are falling fast, and nowhere is this more evident then in the U.S. It is an achieved product of our (Christians) acceptance/tolerance of differed beliefs/biblical interpretations thereof. Yet same God and Christ as our savior. Whereby, we attain unity without compromise.
Still missing my point. Christian Fundamentalism is getting out of hand. Nothing discredits a religious organization worse than a message of intolerance.

Jesus prays for his followers to be unified:
Don't really follow Jesus, thanks.

Pat and Jerry what can I say... They are my Bro's
Did you meet the kids?
http://cbnworld.com/indexFrameset.asp?home=true
Though I don't deny that Mr. Robertson DOES in fact do some good deeds, his message of intolerance is sickening.
And he isn't the only one. A pastor in a church in East Waynesboro, NC voted anyone who is a democrat out of his church. What kinda crap is that? Is that what the church is these days?

No. Its not. Im not judging all Christian churches by the actions of a few intolerant ones, but I think the good christians as a whole need to get a grip on this fundamentalism movement.


Quotes from Famous Fundamental Christians:
"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." -Bailey Smith

"Hear the word of the LORD, America, fag-enablers are worse than the fags themselves, and will be punished in the everlasting lake of fire!" -Fred Phelps

"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians." -Gary North, Institute for Christian Economics

"When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil." -Gary Potter, Catholics for Christian Political Action

"The Christian community has a golden opportunity to train an army of dedicated teachers who can invade the public school classrooms and use them to influence the nation for Christ." -James Kennedy, Center for Reclaiming America

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being." -Jerry Falwell

"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol." -Joseph Morecraft, Chalcedon Presbyterian Church

"We need a legal strategy which protects the rights of those of us who hold Christian convictions which will afford us the opportunity to contend once again for the mind of this culture." -Keith A. Fournier, Catholic Way

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -Pat Robertson, Christian Coalition

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." -Randall Terry, Operation Rescue

I think you get the picture......

This is why we have to put an end to Fundamentalism.
 

vergiss

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Apostle13 said:
I was just curious Caine... What is your take on the Messianic Jews?
As a fellow Jew, let me say:

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Idiots.
 

Caine

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vergiss said:
As a fellow Jew, let me say:

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Idiots.
Exactly
Idiots Tricked by a "fake" form of Judaism, which is actually a Protestant Ministry Program.
 

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Caine said:
Still missing my point. Christian Fundamentalism is getting out of hand. Nothing discredits a religious organization worse than a message of intolerance.
There are examples on all sides.

Don't really follow Jesus, thanks
I know but for your info as to where we as christians are coming from.

This is why we have to put an end to Fundamentalism.
Can't, ain't gonna happen... It is when fundamentalist become activists the crimes ensue. Otherwise, it is free speech.
 

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Apostle13 said:
There are examples on all sides.
Like? I know some athiests can get crazy, and some pagans can get crazy, I don't know of any Jews that get crazy.. they just want to be left alone. But these cases are few, and most of the time provoked by some Christian trying to force thier beliefs on someone else or 'CONDEM THEM TO HELL'.


I know but for your info as to where we as christians are coming from.
Thats nice, maybe they could come together in a message of peace and not hate?


Can't, ain't gonna happen... It is when fundamentalist become activists the crimes ensue. Otherwise, it is free speech.
Of course it is, but the larger the movement, the larger the activism. Hell, just look at the troubles that the poor abused gay people are going through due to it...

Boycotts on Gay Magazine Advertisers who are just trying to make a buck.
Hardly any governments want to give them legal union rights...
Getting beat down and killed cause they are gay...
etc. etc.
 

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Caine said:
Thats nice, maybe they could come together in a message of peace and not hate?
This is the message... Unfortunately, it gets construed.

Of course it is, but the larger the movement, the larger the activism. Hell, just look at the troubles that the poor abused gay people are going through due to it...
Yes, and then what..? Maybe they'll hijack a few airliners and slam 'em in a mosque or gay pride parade.
 

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Apostle13 said:
This is the message... Unfortunately, it gets construed.
You call all that junk I quoted a message of Peace?


Yes, and then what..? Maybe they'll hijack a few airliners and slam 'em in a mosque or gay pride parade.
And... you agree with this?
 

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Caine said:
You call all that junk I quoted a message of Peace?
Uhh... No, I was referencing:
"Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
Caine: "Don't really follow Jesus, thanks."
Apostle: I know but for your info as to where we as christians are coming from.
Caine: Thats nice, maybe they could come together in a message of peace and not hate?
Apostle: This is the message... Unfortunately, it gets construed.
Caine: Of course it is, but the larger the movement, the larger the activism. Hell, just look at the troubles that the poor abused gay people are going through due to it...
Apostle:Yes, and then what..? Maybe they'll ( christian activists as opposed to islamic ones) hijack a few airliners and slam 'em in a mosque or gay pride parade.
Caine said:
And... you agree with this?
Sorry forgot the smily...It was a joke.
 

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Apostle13 said:
No... I do understand the importance of unity, but it is and always will be confined and measured in separate by like-minded sorts. Thus, pride and intolerance. Were it possible/feasible even to unify religious factions it could only be resulted by a formulative compromise of our faiths.
Having said that, Christian unification is an unfolding in modern societies, denominational walls are falling fast, and nowhere is this more evident then in the U.S. It is an achieved product of our (Christians) acceptance/tolerance of differed beliefs/biblical interpretations thereof. Yet same God and Christ as our savior. Whereby, we attain unity without compromise.
Jesus prays for his followers to be unified:

Pat and Jerry what can I say... They are my Bro's
Did you meet the kids?
http://cbnworld.com/indexFrameset.asp?home=true
Christian denominations are uniting because mainline protestantism is shrinking.As mainline protestant churches abandon the Bible and basic christian beliefs for contemporary values they lose members. It is traditional,Bible based christian churches that are growing. Even the Roman Catholic church with all its problems is growing.The Southern Baptist convention is now the biggest protestant church in the USA.
 

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Reform Judaism is the house religion of liberalism and the politicaly correct.So of course they are going to criticize conservative christians.
The truth of course is that they are the intolerant ones.
 

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Religious right ? This is a very questionable phrase. Maybe one of the reasons they seem so far to the right is that you are so far to he left.
I am a JFK democart,but. As the democratic party has veered left, I have becme a conservative democrat without changing my ideas.Since many christian churches have veered to the left.What use to be traditional basic christianity has become right wing to them.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
Christian denominations are uniting because mainline protestantism is shrinking.As mainline protestant churches abandon the Bible and basic christian beliefs for contemporary values they lose members.
This is likely true and valid. However, I see it more of a split between carnality and the True Believers/Spirit-filled/guided. Paul warns in 2Timothy:
People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Have nothing to do with them. always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected
Jesus speaking here in Mathew 15;
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
"These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men."
Also evident in the parables of The wheat and the tares, as well as, The sheep and the goats.
This is proof that all who claim themselves as Christians are not. It is unfortunate that the non-christians judge us as "True Christians" with the lot of them rendering a sort of guilt by association. Whereby, they are quick to label us all as hypocrites.

JONNYJ said:
It is traditional, Bible based christian churches that are growing. Even the Roman Catholic church with all its problems is growing.The Southern Baptist convention is now the biggest protestant church in the USA.
It is more so a lacking/reduction of denominational pride amongst certain individuals (sheep/wheat) from all Christian faiths. Pride having been the original sin.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
Reform Judaism is the house religion of liberalism and the politicaly correct.So of course they are going to criticize conservative christians.
The truth of course is that they are the intolerant ones.
Now, now, let's not do the classic move where either side points at the opposite side as intolerant. Any religion, liberal or conservative, that is intolerant and judges other views and people, is judgmental and obsolete. It is for this reason I agree that conservative Christians active in public affairs generally come across as intolerant, as do ultra-politically correct liberal religious folks. Another thing, I don't think it is right to put a religion with a philosophy as a "house religion."
 

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Axismaster said:
Now, now, let's not do the classic move where either side points at the opposite side as intolerant. Any religion, liberal or conservative, that is intolerant and judges other views and people, is judgmental and obsolete. It is for this reason I agree that conservative Christians active in public affairs generally come across as intolerant, as do ultra-politically correct liberal religious folks. Another thing, I don't think it is right to put a religion with a philosophy as a "house religion."
Can you explain/give an example of a "House Religion", as I have not heard this one before.
Anywayz... Religion is just that... And intolerance is what bureaucracy is to democracy...I mean, unfortunate, as well as, unavoidable.
 

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Axismaster said:
Now, now, let's not do the classic move where either side points at the opposite side as intolerant. Any religion, liberal or conservative, that is intolerant and judges other views and people, is judgmental and obsolete. It is for this reason I agree that conservative Christians active in public affairs generally come across as intolerant, as do ultra-politically correct liberal religious folks. Another thing, I don't think it is right to put a religion with a philosophy as a "house religion."
Of course Reform Judaism is the house religion of liberals and the politicaly correct. The left protects Judaism from any criticism .Even going to the extreme to call any criticism of Israel anti-semitiism which is ridiculous. Also Hollywood,yes Hollywood which is heavily influenced by jews,because. Of their talent in the Movie making field protects judaism from any criticism or ridicule.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
Of course Reform Judaism is the house religion of liberals and the politicaly correct. The left protects Judaism from any criticism .Even going to the extreme to call any criticism of Israel anti-semitiism which is ridiculous. Also Hollywood,yes Hollywood which is heavily influenced by jews,because. Of their talent in the Movie making field protects judaism from any criticism or ridicule.
Actually that last part is 100% true. I just don't like calling religions liberal or conservative, even if their leaders tend to lean to either side, I think it kind of leaves out the lay people who may go either way.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
Religious right ? This is a very questionable phrase. Maybe one of the reasons they seem so far to the right is that you are so far to he left.
I am a JFK democart,but. As the democratic party has veered left, I have becme a conservative democrat without changing my ideas.Since many christian churches have veered to the left.What use to be traditional basic christianity has become right wing to them.
Why should Christians be interjecting their views into politics?

Luke 20:21-26 said:
21. And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:
22. Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
23. But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
24. Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
25. And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
26. And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
Seems like Jesus was for a separation of church and state, what a cool guy.
 

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Engimo said:
Seems like Jesus was for a separation of church and state, what a cool guy.
You know, Jesus seems to me today, more to be like a figurehead or an Icon than an actual teacher of the faith.

People pick and choose what they want to from his teachings, and ignore the other parts, while claiming to follow all of his teachings.
 

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Caine said:
You know, Jesus seems to me today, more to be like a figurehead or an Icon than an actual teacher of the faith.

People pick and choose what they want to from his teachings, and ignore the other parts, while claiming to follow all of his teachings.
Matthew 19:24 said:
...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Yeah, picking and choosing for sure.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
Reform Judaism is the house religion of liberalism and the politicaly correct.So of course they are going to criticize conservative christians.
The truth of course is that they are the intolerant ones.
Yes, they are intolerance of intolerance.

I don't see reform Jews praising the work of Abortion bombers.... http://www.armyofgod.com

I don't see reform Jews praising the intolerance of the KKK......
http://www.christianidentity.tv/

So...How are Reform Jews intolerant?

Do they go dragging "niggers" down the road from the back of thier trucks?

Do they post pictures of blow up abortion clinics and claim it was done by an "angel of god"?

I don't think so scooter...... Maybe you should remove your blindfold and wake up, the intolerance ones are the whack ball fundamenalist christians.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
Of course Reform Judaism is the house religion of liberals and the politicaly correct. The left protects Judaism from any criticism .Even going to the extreme to call any criticism of Israel anti-semitiism which is ridiculous. Also Hollywood,yes Hollywood which is heavily influenced by jews,because. Of their talent in the Movie making field protects judaism from any criticism or ridicule.
:roll:

On behalf of the international Jewish conspiracy, I would like to inform you that you are an idiot.
 
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