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Redefining Race in America

I would agree. There are plenty of good conservatives on this site who present themselves well and who are not extremists. The ones you mention are just a few.

One of these days, though, we're going to have to explore what it means to be extreme. Can you have consistently conservative views and not be extreme? Are there extreme liberals?
 
comments such as these from the right were more isolated, less frequent in the past ... not anymore ... I think having a black guy in the WH helped bring this kind of thing out more quickly and in higher volumes ... the thing is that there is a lot to criticize Obama about (for example, if he appoints Summers as the Fed Chair instead of a much more qualified individual, hopefully Janet Yellen), but they criticize EVERYTHING he does and make up scandals, take his words out of context, etc. that no one listens to them much anymore ... it defnitely is good for the Dems ....

Who is the "they" you keep referring to?
 
One of these days, though, we're going to have to explore what it means to be extreme. Can you have consistently conservative views and not be extreme? Are there extreme liberals?

Yes and yes... and you are doing it again. You know my position on extremism. I don't care one iota whether someone is an extreme conservative or extreme liberal. There is no difference between the style and substance of the two. Only the content is different.
 
Who is the "they" you keep referring to?

you're kidding, right? the GOP House before he was even in office, party leaders like Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity et al. ... He's not one of us, he's really a Muslim, he wasn't born here, he's the foodstamp president, the hateful cartoons like in the NY Post (a conservative rag) with two cops shooting a Chimp that was clearly Obama, etc. ... Where have you been for the past five years?
 
you're kidding, right? the GOP House before he was even in office, party leaders like Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity et al. ... He's not one of us, he's really a Muslim, he wasn't born here, he's the foodstamp president, the hateful cartoons like in the NY Post (a conservative rag) with two cops shooting a Chimp that was clearly Obama, etc. ... Where have you been for the past five years?

Right, because Dems have never done such things. Where were you for the 8 years of the Bush administration? Don't tell me, all that mocking and calling for his death and comparing him with a chimp was completely reasonable and justified.

Actually, don't bother answering, I know exactly what you are.
 
Right, because Dems have never done such things. Where were you for the 8 years of the Bush administration? Don't tell me, all that mocking and calling for his death and comparing him with a chimp was completely reasonable and justified.

Actually, don't bother answering, I know exactly what you are.

w that in the mass media outlets?
 
And you are doing precisely what you are complaining about that those on the other side do. Congratulations. You have failed on DPd favorite game show, Hypocrisy Check!. I'd give you a consolation prize, but I've had to give out so many, we ran out.

I find the lying and disinformation being spread by the Progressive Left is much greater than I can do in small measure here. If there's any hypocrisy here, it comes from the Left. They seem to be capable of dishing it out, but incapable of taking it. As Obama puts it, all that phony business.
 
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Naw, there was zero unfair and downright conspiracy theorist bull**** about Bush from the mass media outlets. :roll:

I'm talking about the death chants and comparing him to a chimp.
 
I find the lying and disinformation being spread by the Progressive Left is much greater than I can do in small measure here. If there's any hypocrisy here, it comes from the Left. They seem to be capable of dishing it out, but incapable of taking it.

No, the hypocrisy is all yours. The lying and disinformation spread by extreme right wingers like you... who then make accusations that they do not do it and only those on the other side of the aisle do present that hypocrisy completely clearly. Apparently they are so focused on attack that they are incapable of self-assessment. Being incapable of self-assessment is a cornerstone of being extreme rightwing.
 
Damn. I thought this was a legitimate thread, and was hoping for an honest dialogue on the topic. Then I saw who the OP was... :(
 
I find the lying and disinformation being spread by the Progressive Left is much greater than I can do in small measure here. If there's any hypocrisy here, it comes from the Left.

Lol, do you realize that you just admitted to lying and spreading disinformation? :D Claims of hypocrisy are always a two way street. Name anything that you believe the left to hypocritical about and I'll show how the right can be just as hypocritical.
 
Right, because Dems have never done such things. Where were you for the 8 years of the Bush administration? Don't tell me, all that mocking and calling for his death and comparing him with a chimp was completely reasonable and justified.

Actually, don't bother answering, I know exactly what you are.

so you think that depicting Bush as a chimp is the same thing as depicting Obama as a Chimp? And, I'm sorry, but I don't recall libs wondering out loud whether Bush was really one of us, questioned where he was born, questioned his religious beliefs, etc. .... I have no problem people making fun of presidents, calling them stupid, in fact, I've said some inkind things about Obama myself, but the racist crap is something altogether different ... but do you really think likening Bush to a chimp is the same as likening Obama and his family to chimps? Really?
 
so you think that depicting Bush as a chimp is the same thing as depicting Obama as a Chimp? And, I'm sorry, but I don't recall libs wondering out loud whether Bush was really one of us, questioned where he was born, questioned his religious beliefs, etc. .... I have no problem people making fun of presidents, calling them stupid, in fact, I've said some inkind things about Obama myself, but the racist crap is something altogether different ... but do you really think likening Bush to a chimp is the same as likening Obama and his family to chimps? Really?

Well, you didn't ask me but... yeah, depicting Bush as a chimp is pretty much the same thing as depicting Obama as a chimp. :shrug:

Now I hated Bush with a pink and purple passion, and I'm not nuts about Obama either, but calling the President of the United States a monkey is basically your every-day partisan insult no matter who's in office at the moment. :)
 
the left doesn't have to accuse the Right of those things ... you guys do a good job of demonstrating it day in and day out ... after all, look at your posts! Are you blind?

Are you? You're just the other side of the same coin as the OP.
 
Well, you didn't ask me but... yeah, depicting Bush as a chimp is pretty much the same thing as depicting Obama as a chimp. :shrug:

Now I hated Bush with a pink and purple passion, and I'm not nuts about Obama either, but calling the President of the United States a monkey is basically your every-day partisan insult no matter who's in office at the moment. :)

you clearly know very little about how race has played out in this country ... have whites historically been likened to monkeys, said to be inferior, lower in the evolutionary chain? Is calling a man a slut the same thing as calling a woman a slut? but you know what, keep it up ... given the demographic changes we're observing in this country, that kind of thing can only help the Dems mobilize their base ...
 
One of these days, though, we're going to have to explore what it means to be extreme. Can you have consistently conservative views and not be extreme?

Of course you can. Look at Zyphlin as a great example. Probably about as conservative as you can be, and yet far from extreme.

Are there extreme liberals?

Many.
 
Of course you can. Look at Zyphlin as a great example. Probably about as conservative as you can be, and yet far from extreme.



Many.

I think it's an interesting question though what makes someone considered extreme. There's generally not a world of difference ideology-wise between Zyphlin and some of the "extreme conservatives" on this board. Same for the differences between strong liberals and "extreme" liberals. In my opinion it comes more from the way they present themselves. One arguing from a logical, reasonable place for their views and the other coming from an emotional, provocative place. You could have two people with the same overall opinion on several issues, with one being extreme and one not. Obviously, you can also have extremeness coming from ideological views too, such as someone arguing for anarchy, but I don't think you really need to have extreme positions to be extreme either here or as a politician.

I don't know, maybe that doesn't really make any sense. It's just something I've been thinking about since I read an article about the Alaska Senate race and how the GOP needs to stop nominating extremist Republicans. It got me thinking about what the difference really is between Mead Treadwell and Joe Miller and Sarah Palin. There isn't really much policy difference between the three of them, but while Treadwell is seen as conservative, he isn't really seen as extreme like the other two. I see the difference as Miller and Palin love to make purposely provocative statements and use divisive, emotional rhetoric. That's what make them extreme.
 
I think it's an interesting question though what makes someone considered extreme. There's generally not a world of difference ideology-wise between Zyphlin and some of the "extreme conservatives" on this board. Same for the differences between strong liberals and "extreme" liberals. In my opinion it comes more from the way they present themselves. One arguing from a logical, reasonable place for their views and the other coming from an emotional, provocative place. You could have two people with the same overall opinion on several issues, with one being extreme and one not. Obviously, you can also have extremeness coming from ideological views too, such as someone arguing for anarchy, but I don't think you really need to have extreme positions to be extreme either here or as a politician.

I don't know, maybe that doesn't really make any sense. It's just something I've been thinking about since I read an article about the Alaska Senate race and how the GOP needs to stop nominating extremist Republicans. It got me thinking about what the difference really is between Mead Treadwell and Joe Miller and Sarah Palin. There isn't really much policy difference between the three of them, but while Treadwell is seen as conservative, he isn't really seen as extreme like the other two. I see the difference as Miller and Palin love to make purposely provocative statements and use divisive, emotional rhetoric. That's what make them extreme.

I agree with you to some extent. I always say presentation is EVERYTHING, and the extreme tend to present in an overgeneralized, dogmatic, attacking, and absolutist way. I think there is another distinction, though. If you watch a "strong" conservative or liberal speak, you will notice that they present their position. An "extreme" conservative or liberal tends to not present their position at all... but instead only presents how much they dislike the other side. It's completely negative with little or any support for their side at all. I wouldn't even call them extreme conservatives or extreme liberals because they actually don't stand for anything at all. Instead, they are ANTI-liberals and ANTI-conservatives. All they really stand for is what they don't like. They offer no solutions. They just assign blame.
 
Yes and yes... and you are doing it again. You know my position on extremism.

Yes, I do. Sorry CC, I didn't notice who you were replying to.

]I don't care one iota whether someone is an extreme conservative or extreme liberal. There is no difference between the style and substance of the two. Only the content is different.


Of course you can. Look at Zyphlin as a great example. Probably about as conservative as you can be, and yet far from extreme.

I tend to see "extreme" and "extremism" as a relative "in the eye of the beholder" kind of thing. I'm sure any of us who have any leanings one way or the other is seen as extreme by somebody.
 
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I agree with you to some extent. I always say presentation is EVERYTHING, and the extreme tend to present in an overgeneralized, dogmatic, attacking, and absolutist way. I think there is another distinction, though. If you watch a "strong" conservative or liberal speak, you will notice that they present their position. An "extreme" conservative or liberal tends to not present their position at all... but instead only presents how much they dislike the other side. It's completely negative with little or any support for their side at all. I wouldn't even call them extreme conservatives or extreme liberals because they actually don't stand for anything at all. Instead, they are ANTI-liberals and ANTI-conservatives. All they really stand for is what they don't like. They offer no solutions. They just assign blame.

I can mostly agree with that. There are some liberals and conservatives that I would consider extreme that do present their positions using emotionally charged rhetoric that isn't necessarily anti-other side, but I agree that a lot of what I consider extreme comes from that sort of divisiveness.
 
Yes, I do. Sorry CC, I didn't notice who you were replying to.






I tend to see "extreme" and "extremism" as a relative "in the eye of the beholder" kind of thing. I'm sure any of us who have any leanings one way other the other is seen as extreme by somebody.

For anyone you could definitely find at least one person willing to label them extreme. And I think a lot of people try to get the extreme label to stick to anyone from the side they don't like, whether they are extreme or not.

Outside of those hacks though, I think there is a sense of the extreme that non-hacks would mostly agree on about various people.
 
I agree with you to some extent. I always say presentation is EVERYTHING, and the extreme tend to present in an overgeneralized, dogmatic, attacking, and absolutist way. I think there is another distinction, though. If you watch a "strong" conservative or liberal speak, you will notice that they present their position. An "extreme" conservative or liberal tends to not present their position at all... but instead only presents how much they dislike the other side. It's completely negative with little or any support for their side at all. I wouldn't even call them extreme conservatives or extreme liberals because they actually don't stand for anything at all. Instead, they are ANTI-liberals and ANTI-conservatives. All they really stand for is what they don't like. They offer no solutions. They just assign blame.

I can mostly agree with that. There are some liberals and conservatives that I would consider extreme that do present their positions using emotionally charged rhetoric that isn't necessarily anti-other side, but I agree that a lot of what I consider extreme comes from that sort of divisiveness.

Ok but is that being extreme or is that just being a shill? Using abortion as an example (and no, I don't want to turn this into an abortion debate). Certain posistions and beliefs are considered extreme regardless of how nicely someone presents those positions.
 
Ok but is that being extreme or is that just being a shill? Using abortion as an example (and no, I don't want to turn this into an abortion debate). Certain posistions and beliefs are considered extreme regardless of how nicely someone presents those positions.

I agree, there are some political positions I would consider extreme regardless of how they are presented. I just don't think that's the only source of extremeness. It can come from presentation too.
 
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