Red States / Blue States

[Doug64]

The top 2 states in the country you disparage. Lol

“The top 2 states in the country” at what?

 

[noonereal]

“The top 2 states in the country” at what?

GDP, art, quality of life, amenities...

 

[Conservative]

“The top 2 states in the country” at what?

Cult followers never look at results which don't resonate with them therefore you won't get an answer

 

[ElChupacabra]

You see, I don't see the benefits that you see.

I would imagine that to be the case because your reasons for being there are likely very different than my reasons for being here. You're trying to make the argument that people should be free to choose where they want to live, but there is only one "right" choice. Much of the measure you make for this is purely economic, which is not the only consideration people make when selecting where to live.

If I make the same money as you I have more spendable income than you thus can take better care of my family or people in my community through things like Interfaith of The Woodlands. So tell me what I am missing that people keeping more of what they earn cannot pay for?

As I stated above, there are many reasons people choose to live where they do, and I am not a spokesperson for everyone to be able to speak to all of those decisions. They are clearly being made since people elect to live in certain places rather than others. As for the spendable income, that depends on how comfortable you are with the trade off of services funded by taxes versus having that money in your pocket and making that decision on your own.

For example, if you live in a county with low taxes you might have significantly less in the form of public services, which means you bear the brunt of those expenses. Depending on how important that is to you, that choice is for you to make. If I live in NYC, I might pay a lot in taxes but have access to much more in the way of public services the I may prefer to paying them on my own; take transportation for example. Owning a car is something most NYC residents forgo because it is not critical for transportation, so it might be financially advantageous to pay those taxes and not have to deal with those out of pocket expenses. Access to a competitive job market and other amenities might make the high taxes acceptable.

 

[Conservative]

I would imagine that to be the case because your reasons for being there are likely very different than my reasons for being here. You're trying to make the argument that people should be free to choose where they want to live, but there is only one "right" choice. Much of the measure you make for this is purely economic, which is not the only consideration people make when selecting where to live.

But here is the problem, you live in a state that you are benefiting from but ignoring the purpose of liberal economics which is what? Why are you paying high state and local taxes and what benefit are you getting that I am not getting living in TX?

As I stated above, there are many reasons people choose to live where they do, and I am not a spokesperson for everyone to be able to speak to all of those decisions. They are clearly being made since people elect to live in certain places rather than others. As for the spendable income, that depends on how comfortable you are with the trade off of services funded by taxes versus having that money in your pocket and making that decision on your own.

Right you have a choice and a purpose but what you seem to be doing is judging everyone else by your standards and those results aren't getting to everyone else.

For example, if you live in a county with low taxes you might have significantly less in the form of public services, which means you bear the brunt of those expenses. Depending on how important that is to you, that choice is for you to make. If I live in NYC, I might pay a lot in taxes but have access to much more in the way of public services the I may prefer to paying them on my own; take transportation for example. Owning a car is something most NYC residents forgo because it is not critical for transportation, so it might be financially advantageous to pay those taxes and not have to deal with those out of pocket expenses. Access to a competitive job market and other amenities might make the high taxes acceptable.

The operative word is MIGHT but you don't know that. People have a choice where to move but as stated liberalism is all about spending in the name of compassion so tell me what is compassionate about making people dependent? Why are people in Blue states so loyal, paying such high taxes to get results that we see today in California and NY for the less fortunate

 

[ElChupacabra]

But here is the problem, you live in a state that you are benefiting from but ignoring the purpose of liberal economics which is what?

You would have to define what "liberal economics" is. If I am in a state where the benefits for me outweigh the negatives, there isn't a "problem".

Why are you paying high state and local taxes and what benefit are you getting that I am not getting living in TX?

State and local taxes go toward very good public schools, and maintaining the services which make it convenient to live where I do. NJ's public schools are among the better ones in the country and at the time my wife and I were deciding on where to live, that was high on the list. Property resale value was another important factor, and the good thing about property in our general area is you tend to make a good profit when you sell.

Proximity to work and great job opportunities were also key for us. I don't like the idea of being car dependent for everything as I try to minimize my driving for both environmental reasons and reducing wear and tear on the car. These benefits made it an easier decision to move where we did versus cheaper areas in the state which would not have had those benefits.

Right you have a choice and a purpose but what you seem to be doing is judging everyone else by your standards and those results aren't getting to everyone else.

I'm not sure how you're pinning this on me when your entire thread is premised on this very idea. What I'm responding to your contention that liberalism isn't a viable ideology because of the problems in states like California and New York (homelessness, poverty, etc.) yet offer no counter ideology that has solved those problems either.

The operative word is MIGHT but you don't know that.

In my case I certainly do know that, and for those who choose to live here it is likely the same thing.

People have a choice where to move but as stated liberalism is all about spending in the name of compassion so tell me what is compassionate about making people dependent?

I don't agree that liberals creates that kind of dependence. If liberals were exclusively beneficiaries of liberal social programs you would have a point, but the demographics of people who identify as liberals runs across a wide gamut of the socio-economic spectrum.

Why are people in Blue states so loyal, paying such high taxes to get results that we see today in California and NY for the less fortunate

You might understand if you broadened your focus beyond just the reasons you think life in these places would be unacceptable. It's like me saying I would never live in a red state because they haven't solved the poverty in Appalachia.

 

[Conservative]

You would have to define what "liberal economics" is. If I am in a state where the benefits for me outweigh the negatives, there isn't a "problem".

Spending in the name of compassion and buying votes but making people dependent

State and local taxes go toward very good public schools, and maintaining the services which make it convenient to live where I do. NJ's public schools are among the better ones in the country and at the time my wife and I were deciding on where to live, that was high on the list. Property resale value was another important factor, and the good thing about property in our general area is you tend to make a good profit when you sell.

Yes they do and that is up to the people not bureaucrats to decide

NJ schools may be good but other states are just as good. My kids are examples os a great education too and not in New Jersey. Money does determine a good education

Proximity to work and great job opportunities were also key for us. I don't like the idea of being car dependent for everything as I try to minimize my driving for both environmental reasons and reducing wear and tear on the car. These benefits made it an easier decision to move where we did versus cheaper areas in the state which would not have had those benefits.

Look you are fine doing well but what about those the left claims they want to help. Why is liberalism so popular with you? You had a choice why NJ? Other states have equal opportunities, great schools, better weather and lower cost of living

I'm not sure how you're pinning this on me when your entire thread is premised on this very idea. What I'm responding to your contention that liberalism isn't a viable ideology because of the problems in states like California and New York (homelessness, poverty, etc.) yet offer no counter ideology that has solved those problems either.

Results matter and those states are bastions of liberalism and the results don't warrant the loyalty or support

In my case I certainly do know that, and for those who choose to live here it is likely the same thing.


I don't agree that liberals creates that kind of dependence. If liberals were exclusively beneficiaries of liberal social programs you would have a point, but the demographics of people who identify as liberals runs across a wide gamut of the socio-economic spectrum.

Then you are naive and poorly informed. Feed someone and they eat for a day and they become dependent, teach them to fish and they eat for a lifetime. Too many get personal responsibility issues funded by someone else

You might understand if you broadened your focus beyond just the reasons you think life in these places would be unacceptable. It's like me saying I would never live in a red state because they haven't solved the poverty in Appalachia.

My focus and experience are spot on. Been all over the country, managed thousands of people and a great understanding of people and human nature

Poverty will never be solved by government it will only be solved by people when they stop expecting government to be the answer and solution

 

[ElChupacabra]

Spending in the name of compassion and buying votes but making people dependent

What explains the people who vote along liberal lines who are not dependent?

Yes they do and that is up to the people not bureaucrats to decide

Except in a representative democracy the elected officials are charged with managing these issues on behalf of the people. The decision is made when people vote for those who represent their interests.

NJ schools may be good but other states are just as good. My kids are examples os a great education too and not in New Jersey. Money does determine a good education

Going by public high school graduation results, no, not all states are equal. NJ is among the highest in terms of results; in both percentage of high school graduates and in a highly educated workforce. That's not to say students can't excel anywhere else, but if results are important, then it would be odd to ignore them when making a decision on where the educational system produces better results.

Look you are fine doing well but what about those the left claims they want to help. Why is liberalism so popular with you? You had a choice why NJ? Other states have equal opportunities, great schools, better weather and lower cost of living

I've already answered why I chose to live where I do.

Results matter and those states are bastions of liberalism and the results don't warrant the loyalty or support

To you perhaps, but for those of us who choose to live here it's a different story. The results work in my favor and cater to my preferences across a wide variety of criteria. That doesn't mean everything is perfect, but there is no Utopia as you often point out.

Then you are naive and poorly informed. Feed someone and they eat for a day and they become dependent, teach them to fish and they eat for a lifetime. Too many get personal responsibility issues funded by someone else

Having lived in countries with far broader social programs, I can say from experience your generalizations ring hollow.

My focus and experience are spot on. Been all over the country, managed thousands of people and a great understanding of people and human nature

Your broad generalizations about creating dependence show otherwise.

Poverty will never be solved by government it will only be solved by people when they stop expecting government to be the answer and solution

So how has that worked out in places that hold this idea; has poverty been solved there?

 

[Grim17]

You see the terms used all the time--Red States / Blue States. But they aren't exactly defined very well, leading to questions of just who belongs in which category. Does a state that has been consistently voting for Democratic candidates for president become a red state if they vote for a Republican once, then flip back to Blue when they resume their usual pattern? So I came up with my own way of measuring, giving equal weight for votes for each of four categories--president, senators, House representatives, and governors--over sixteen years. This is what I came up with (the higher the percentage, the more support for Republicans):

I figure, any state up to 33.3% is Blue, any state up to 67.7% is Purple, and any state that is above that is Red. You can get surprises with this. Montana, for instance, is normally considered a Red state, and with good reason--all eight of its House and President votes over the past 16 years have been Republican. But 4 out of six votes for Senator and three out of four votes for Governor have gone to Democrats, so a final score of 64.6% ... barely into Purple territory.

In my view, if you want to determine if a state is red, blue, or purple, you first look at the political makeup of their state's legislature and senate, then next you can factor in to a lesser degree the party that holds the governorship. Who a state votes for for president is the least significant way to determine the party leaning of a state.

.

 

[Doug64]

In my view, if you want to determine if a state is red, blue, or purple, you first look at the political makeup of their state's legislature and senate, then next you can factor in to a lesser degree the party that holds the governorship. Who a state votes for for president is the least significant way to determine the party leaning of a state.

.

I tried to include the state legislatures, it turned out to be too much work.

GDP, art, quality of life, amenities...

"Art" is rather subjective, quality of life I'll have to investigate, but GDP I can provide some numbers for. First you have to look at per capita GDP, and second you have to adjust by cost of living. When you do, here's what you get for 2021:

You will note that 1st & 2nd place are red states (North Dakota & Nebraska), as are three of the top five and five of the top ten. The first blue state comes in 3rd (Illinois), with two of the top five and four of the top ten also blue. New York comes in at #26, California at #30, while Texas comes in at #9.

 

[Conservative]

What explains the people who vote along liberal lines who are not dependent?

You never bite the hand that feeds you

Except in a representative democracy the elected officials are charged with managing these issues on behalf of the people. The decision is made when people vote for those who represent their interests.

Spending in the name of compassion will always create dependence and career politicians

Going by public high school graduation results, no, not all states are equal. NJ is among the highest in terms of results; in both percentage of high school graduates and in a highly educated workforce. That's not to say students can't excel anywhere else, but if results are important, then it would be odd to ignore them when making a decision on where the educational system produces better results.

Again statistics don't tell the who story, there are a lot of degrees that aren't worth the paper they are written on creating a lot of book smart street stupid individuals

I've already answered why I chose to live where I do.

What you haven't explained is why you judge everyone else by your own standards and never see the consequences of those standards on others. Oh by the way

Moving from New Jersey to Texas: Costs + Benefits

Moving from New Jersey to Texas can be quite an undertaking. Want to know the benefits and cost to relocating? Get your questions answered and a free quote.

www.northamerican.com

To you perhaps, but for those of us who choose to live here it's a different story. The results work in my favor and cater to my preferences across a wide variety of criteria. That doesn't mean everything is perfect, but there is no Utopia as you often point out.

No problem at all just don't force your ideology and economics on others

Having lived in countries with far broader social programs, I can say from experience your generalizations ring hollow.

You opinion noted, my experience and management of people tell a different story

Your broad generalizations about creating dependence show otherwise.

So you claim and as the data I just posted it is cheaper to live in TX than your state so is that a generalization

So how has that worked out in places that hold this idea; has poverty been solved there?

You will have to ask the people there why they are poor and look at their resume vs yours

 

[ElChupacabra]

You never bite the hand that feeds you

But my question was about those who aren't fed by the hand.

Spending in the name of compassion will always create dependence and career politicians

This harkens back to the many times I've pointed to other countries with much broader social programs that do not have this problem. Why is that? You imply that Americans are somehow unique in this category and would become dependent compared with others. The data shows otherwise, since many on assistance programs are also working.

Again statistics don't tell the who story, there are a lot of degrees that aren't worth the paper they are written on creating a lot of book smart street stupid individuals

Then it's on you to tell that story. Your comment provides no kind of insight or facts to prove your point. Considering that many of the jobs in NJ are largely in professional services (medical, technology, logistics), your comment doesn't ring particularly true.

What you haven't explained is why you judge everyone else by your own standards and never see the consequences of those standards on others. Oh by the way

Moving from New Jersey to Texas: Costs + Benefits

Moving from New Jersey to Texas can be quite an undertaking. Want to know the benefits and cost to relocating? Get your questions answered and a free quote.

www.northamerican.com

Please cite where I have judged anyone. It's odd that you project so much since you're the one consistently making these comparisons between states.

No problem at all just don't force your ideology and economics on others

Where have I done that? Your framing of this has been based on the results of one state versus others, and I'm simply pointing out that results in those other states have proved to be as ineffectual at resolving the very issues you claim to be concerned about.

You opinion noted, my experience and management of people tell a different story

Your experience is your experience, but it is hardly representative of everyone else's, and for some reason you seem to think that it is. I don't ever assume that my experience managing people is an accurate representation of human nature. So much depends on the type of people you manage and the circumstances. I guarantee you that managing professionals presents a very different perspective than managing cashiers at a retail store.

So you claim and as the data I just posted it is cheaper to live in TX than your state so is that a generalization

Yes, it's cheaper to live in a lot of places, but I made a decision to live where I do that was based on more than just the cost of living. I suppose you can eat fast food because it's cheaper, but that doesn't mean it's better across the board.

You will have to ask the people there why they are poor and look at their resume vs yours

If you're claiming one ideology is worse than another because of poverty levels then it's on you to explain why one would be better than the other.

 

[Conservative]

But my question was about those who aren't fed by the hand.

Because they are just like you, comfortable and buying the liberal rhetoric ignoring the liberal results. Do you ever think of the poor, homeless?

This harkens back to the many times I've pointed to other countries with much broader social programs that do not have this problem. Why is that? You imply that Americans are somehow unique in this category and would become dependent compared with others. The data shows otherwise, since many on assistance programs are also working.

You believe other countries are better but never talk about the opportunity here or what our Founders created, Suggest a history lesson. Unfortunately it is human nature for many, give them something and they come to expect it. Your ideology has created a dependent class

Then it's on you to tell that story. Your comment provides no kind of insight or facts to prove your point. Considering that many of the jobs in NJ are largely in professional services (medical, technology, logistics), your comment doesn't ring particularly true.

Your state is losing population, your state is expensive and your state doesn't offer the freedoms we have in TX nor the cost of living. Location is the only thing saving your declining state.

Please cite where I have judged anyone. It's odd that you project so much since you're the one consistently making these comparisons between states.

Your posts tell it all, you judge everyone by your own standards defending liberal economic policies and ignoring the liberal results. Sell me on moving to NJ, NY, or California?

Where have I done that? Your framing of this has been based on the results of one state versus others, and I'm simply pointing out that results in those other states have proved to be as ineffectual at resolving the very issues you claim to be concerned about.

No. I am basing it on the reality, blue states have the highest cost of living, highest taxes and some of the worst economic, fiscal and social results

Your experience is your experience, but it is hardly representative of everyone else's, and for some reason you seem to think that it is. I don't ever assume that my experience managing people is an accurate representation of human nature. So much depends on the type of people you manage and the circumstances. I guarantee you that managing professionals presents a very different perspective than managing cashiers at a retail store.

But that experience is broad and in dealing with over a thousand employees and working 35 years in the private sector I will match that resume against yours. As state unfortunately it is human nature for many when given something they lose the incentive to make things beter

Yes, it's cheaper to live in a lot of places, but I made a decision to live where I do that was based on more than just the cost of living. I suppose you can eat fast food because it's cheaper, but that doesn't mean it's better across the board.

Some of the best restaurants in the nation are in low cost states which of course you ignore. I love having more spendable income to do with it as I see fit not giving it to a bureaucrat who has operating expenses thus a dollar in contribution never generates a dollar in results

If you're claiming one ideology is worse than another because of poverty levels then it's on you to explain why one would be better than the other.

Because poverty lacks context, People in Mississippi have more spendable income at the poverty level than people in California and your state at the poverty level and cost of living is a lot less

 

[Conservative]

But my question was about those who aren't fed by the hand.


This harkens back to the many times I've pointed to other countries with much broader social programs that do not have this problem. Why is that? You imply that Americans are somehow unique in this category and would become dependent compared with others. The data shows otherwise, since many on assistance programs are also working.


Then it's on you to tell that story. Your comment provides no kind of insight or facts to prove your point. Considering that many of the jobs in NJ are largely in professional services (medical, technology, logistics), your comment doesn't ring particularly true.


Please cite where I have judged anyone. It's odd that you project so much since you're the one consistently making these comparisons between states.


Where have I done that? Your framing of this has been based on the results of one state versus others, and I'm simply pointing out that results in those other states have proved to be as ineffectual at resolving the very issues you claim to be concerned about.


Your experience is your experience, but it is hardly representative of everyone else's, and for some reason you seem to think that it is. I don't ever assume that my experience managing people is an accurate representation of human nature. So much depends on the type of people you manage and the circumstances. I guarantee you that managing professionals presents a very different perspective than managing cashiers at a retail store.


Yes, it's cheaper to live in a lot of places, but I made a decision to live where I do that was based on more than just the cost of living. I suppose you can eat fast food because it's cheaper, but that doesn't mean it's better across the board.


If you're claiming one ideology is worse than another because of poverty levels then it's on you to explain why one would be better than the other.

Something to think about regarding a high school education

115 Highly Successful Dropouts from High School & College (2020)

Successful dropouts from high school and college are everywhere. An education doesn't guarantee success - Determination Does - #13, #70 & #91 are surprising

moneysmartfamily.com

Top 10 Richest Dropouts in the World | Salary.com

No college degree? No problem! Here's the top 10 richest individuals who dropped out of school or never attended college.

www.salary.com

 

[Doug64]

GDP, art, quality of life, amenities...

While pcGDP is one of the numbers people focus on the most, many prefer median household income instead since it gives a better look at how the wealth is distributed. However, one factor that needs to be taken into account is the size of the households, which in the US run from 3.08 people (Utah) to 2.28 (North Dakota, Vermont, Maine). So here's the per capita Median Household Income, again adjusted by cost of living:

So again it's a red state that takes #1 (North Dakota), with two reds in the top 5 and 4 in the top 10. The blues also have 2 in the top 5 and 4 in the top 10 (purple did a little better this time), but their best is again #3 (Minnesota). And this time New York drops a whopping 22 ranks to #48 and California 19 ranks to #49, though Texas is 27 ranks lower at #36.

 

[Conservative]

While pcGDP is one of the numbers people focus on the most, many prefer median household income instead since it gives a better look at how the wealth is distributed. However, one factor that needs to be taken into account is the size of the households, which in the US run from 3.08 people (Utah) to 2.28 (North Dakota, Vermont, Maine). So here's the per capita Median Household Income, again adjusted by cost of living:

So again it's a red state that takes #1 (North Dakota), with two reds in the top 5 and 4 in the top 10. The blues also have 2 in the top 5 and 4 in the top 10 (purple did a little better this time), but their best is again #3 (Minnesota). And this time New York drops a whopping 22 ranks to #48 and California 19 ranks to #49, though Texas is 27 ranks lower at #36.

Ask the liberal posters how such high GDP promoted by the left has benefited the poor, homeless in their state? Seems that the 5th largest economy in the world isn't getting to those dependent on the gov't for help in the state which leads the nation in homeless, poverty, illegals with among the highest taxes and cost of living. Other than the beaches and weather convince anyone to move to California?

 

[Doug64]

GDP, art, quality of life, amenities...

For overall quality of life, here's this from US News and World Report:

This time blue states do considerably better, taking 1st & 2nd and five of the top ten to red states' 3rd top with four of the top ten. New York (#21) and California (#24) also do considerably better, with Texas at #31.

 

[Conservative]

For overall quality of life, here's this from US News and World Report:

This time blue states do considerably better, taking 1st & 2nd and five of the top ten to red states' 3rd top with four of the top ten. New York (#21) and California (#24) also do considerably better, with Texas at #31.

Here's the bigger issue, the people in Red States have more spendable income that blue states because of the lower cost of living and lower taxes and that trumps the GDP claims which really are irrelevant as regarding individuals and benefits. How does GDP impact you?

 

[azgreg]

I live in AZ. We have a Republican Gov. that everyone, INCLUDING his own party, hates. We voted for Biden in 2020 and now have 2 democratic Senators. I would say that 67.7% is way too high considering the 2020 election and the growing democratic population.

I read a piece during the last election that stated in Arizona every minute a Latino eligible to vote while two old white people die.

 

[Doug64]

Here's the bigger issue, the people in Red States have more spendable income that blue states because of the lower cost of living and lower taxes and that trumps the GDP claims which really are irrelevant as regarding individuals and benefits. How does GDP impact you?

Don't forget that the cost of living is factored into the GDP and MHI numbers/rankings I posted. It was the cost of living that put Hawaii dead last in both categories, without it the state was 27th for pcGDP and 15th for pcHM--it is expensive to live in Hawaii.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Because they are just like you, comfortable and buying the liberal rhetoric ignoring the liberal results. Do you ever think of the poor, homeless?

Well, those who are comfortable are paying high taxes, so I imagine it's more than listening to liberal rhetoric and ignoring liberal results. I actually do think of the poor and homeless because I donate money and time to help them.

You believe other countries are better but never talk about the opportunity here or what our Founders created, Suggest a history lesson. Unfortunately it is human nature for many, give them something and they come to expect it. Your ideology has created a dependent class

I haven't said other countries are better, I've explained how other countries have managed societal issues a bit more effectively and cite them as examples which counter the idea that people there become dependent.

Your state is losing population, your state is expensive and your state doesn't offer the freedoms we have in TX nor the cost of living. Location is the only thing saving your declining state.

What freedoms do you have in Texas that we don't have here? The cost of living is indeed different, but the things I want and prefer are here. We'll have to see what population numbers look like over the next few years to identify post pandemic trends. 1 in 4 people who come to the state are immigrants, and with that number having been impacted by the pandemic, it could rebound as things normalize.

Your posts tell it all, you judge everyone by your own standards defending liberal economic policies and ignoring the liberal results. Sell me on moving to NJ, NY, or California?

You have yet to cite where I have judged anyone, when it's you who are making all of these broad generalizations about the people who live here. I'm not a sales person and have no interest in trying to sell you on something you would never buy under any circumstances anyway.

No. I am basing it on the reality, blue states have the highest cost of living, highest taxes and some of the worst economic, fiscal and social results

They are also the centers of commerce for most of the country. Do the issues there have to be resolved? Sure. However, there are also many successes that come from these states as well. When Mississippi becomes one of the states driving commerce in this country and has urban centers without economic, fiscal, and societal issues then you can come back with a solid example.

But that experience is broad and in dealing with over a thousand employees and working 35 years in the private sector I will match that resume against yours. As state unfortunately it is human nature for many when given something they lose the incentive to make things beter

I guess we're at the point in the discussion where your wheels start coming off.

Some of the best restaurants in the nation are in low cost states which of course you ignore. I love having more spendable income to do with it as I see fit not giving it to a bureaucrat who has operating expenses thus a dollar in contribution never generates a dollar in results

Please cite your sources. Here's mine: Top 25 Restaurants According to TripAdvisor Users. How many are in low cost states?

Because poverty lacks context, People in Mississippi have more spendable income at the poverty level than people in California and your state at the poverty level and cost of living is a lot less

So you're saying the poverty affecting people in Appalachia and parts of the Bayou is not really poverty because they have more spendable income?

 

[ElChupacabra]

Something to think about regarding a high school education

115 Highly Successful Dropouts from High School & College (2020)

Successful dropouts from high school and college are everywhere. An education doesn't guarantee success - Determination Does - #13, #70 & #91 are surprising

moneysmartfamily.com

Top 10 Richest Dropouts in the World | Salary.com

No college degree? No problem! Here's the top 10 richest individuals who dropped out of school or never attended college.

www.salary.com

Ah, if only most people who don't graduate high school went on to do these things. Most don't end up coming close to those accomplishments. The list is also flawed because it includes people from times where secondary education was optional and not the requirement it is now.

 

[HikerGuy83]

There is a true culture war raging today between red/blue regarding the true role of the Federal Gov't. It truly is sad to see disconnect between the liberal/conservative ideology.

It's not liberal/conservative.

It's left-wing/conservative.

I love liberals.

I am not so enamored with left-wingers.

 

[Conservative]

It's not liberal/conservative.

It's left-wing/conservative.

I love liberals.

I am not so enamored with left-wingers.

I grew up a JFK Democrat and really bought the rhetoric "Ask not what your country can do for you" but that party doesn't exist any more as it has become the "ME" Party, the entitlement whores who expect the taxpayers to fund their personal responsibility issues when the reality is Our Founders created a country where neighbor helps neighbor and that neighbor isn't a federal bureaucrat

 

[Conservative]

Ah, if only most people who don't graduate high school went on to do these things. Most don't end up coming close to those accomplishments. The list is also flawed because it includes people from times where secondary education was optional and not the requirement it is now.

Most people? Doesn't matter if MOST people do it, it only matters that reality exists that some have indeed done it and the opportunity is there. A High School or College degree doesn't mean a lot today, but individual effort always does