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Red States / Blue States

Doug64

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You see the terms used all the time--Red States / Blue States. But they aren't exactly defined very well, leading to questions of just who belongs in which category. Does a state that has been consistently voting for Democratic candidates for president become a red state if they vote for a Republican once, then flip back to Blue when they resume their usual pattern? So I came up with my own way of measuring, giving equal weight for votes for each of four categories--president, senators, House representatives, and governors--over sixteen years. This is what I came up with (the higher the percentage, the more support for Republicans):

XynnsJF.jpg


I figure, any state up to 33.3% is Blue, any state up to 67.7% is Purple, and any state that is above that is Red. You can get surprises with this. Montana, for instance, is normally considered a Red state, and with good reason--all eight of its House and President votes over the past 16 years have been Republican. But 4 out of six votes for Senator and three out of four votes for Governor have gone to Democrats, so a final score of 64.6% ... barely into Purple territory.
 

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That's interesting. The way our governor acts you'd think we were 99% Republican. lol

He's always publicly stating that we welcome new residents, but please, just don't change who we are. lol That's code for don't vote for a Democrat. Of course I'm hoping they do come, and do vote Democrat. I miss having a Dem Gov.
 

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You see the terms used all the time--Red States / Blue States. But they aren't exactly defined very well, leading to questions of just who belongs in which category. Does a state that has been consistently voting for Democratic candidates for president become a red state if they vote for a Republican once, then flip back to Blue when they resume their usual pattern? So I came up with my own way of measuring, giving equal weight for votes for each of four categories--president, senators, House representatives, and governors--over sixteen years. This is what I came up with (the higher the percentage, the more support for Republicans):

XynnsJF.jpg


I figure, any state up to 33.3% is Blue, any state up to 67.7% is Purple, and any state that is above that is Red. You can get surprises with this. Montana, for instance, is normally considered a Red state, and with good reason--all eight of its House and President votes over the past 16 years have been Republican. But 4 out of six votes for Senator and three out of four votes for Governor have gone to Democrats, so a final score of 64.6% ... barely into Purple territory.
Hey this is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing. This definitely seems like a more holistic way of looking at red/blue states.
 

Doug64

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He's always publicly stating that we welcome new residents, but please, just don't change who we are. lol That's code for don't vote for a Democrat.

More like “we welcome new residents, so long as they resemble the old residents.” Honestly, I can understand to an extent where he’s coming from—people want neighbors they are comfortable with, and who fits that more than people like you? And you get people in states like Texas and Florida that don’t want “refugees” from New York and California bringing those states’ politics with them. Of course, what we want and what we get are two often very different things....

Hey this is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing. This definitely seems like a more holistic way of looking at red/blue states.

Thanks, I certainly think so. :unsure: Mind, it would be even better if the elections for state legislatures were included, but that turned out to simply be too much work for me.
 

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You see the terms used all the time--Red States / Blue States. But they aren't exactly defined very well, leading to questions of just who belongs in which category. Does a state that has been consistently voting for Democratic candidates for president become a red state if they vote for a Republican once, then flip back to Blue when they resume their usual pattern? So I came up with my own way of measuring, giving equal weight for votes for each of four categories--president, senators, House representatives, and governors--over sixteen years. This is what I came up with (the higher the percentage, the more support for Republicans):

XynnsJF.jpg


I figure, any state up to 33.3% is Blue, any state up to 67.7% is Purple, and any state that is above that is Red. You can get surprises with this. Montana, for instance, is normally considered a Red state, and with good reason--all eight of its House and President votes over the past 16 years have been Republican. But 4 out of six votes for Senator and three out of four votes for Governor have gone to Democrats, so a final score of 64.6% ... barely into Purple territory.
I live in AZ. We have a Republican Gov. that everyone, INCLUDING his own party, hates. We voted for Biden in 2020 and now have 2 democratic Senators. I would say that 67.7% is way too high considering the 2020 election and the growing democratic population.
 

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Rep v Dem isn't the same as Con v Lib. By far, most states lean con:


The US is traditionally con. There was a time when the Dems were the cons. The Reps in the North were the libs.

Now, the cons control Congress.
 

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Rep v Dem isn't the same as Con v Lib. By far, most states lean con:


19 is most?
The US is traditionally con. There was a time when the Dems were the cons. The Reps in the North were the libs.

Now, the cons control Congress.
 

Doug64

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I live in AZ. We have a Republican Gov. that everyone, INCLUDING his own party, hates. We voted for Biden in 2020 and now have 2 democratic Senators. I would say that 67.7% is way too high considering the 2020 election and the growing democratic population.

I went with a 16-year timeframe to help compensate for personality fluctuations. Just going with eight years could be problematic with, say, a particularly popular (or unpopular) president. That said, rankings are naturally likely to shift with each election cycle, and Arizona has been a good example of that. In 2016, Arizona’s average was 72.6%, in 2018 it went up to 77.7%, and in 2020 it dropped to 76.7%. If that’s an actual ideological shift rather than one driven by personalities, the drop will continue with this year’s elections.

Rep v Dem isn't the same as Con v Lib. By far, most states lean con:


The US is traditionally con. There was a time when the Dems were the cons. The Reps in the North were the libs.

Now, the cons control Congress.

Like the joke goes, what’s a Utah Democrat? A Republican anywhere else. 😁
 

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19 is most?

I said "con v lib" states, which are 43 states more con than lib, 6 states more lib than con and one state even. If you multiplied each political ID by the number in each state, the total of each for all 50 states would be 34.6% Con, 36.1% Mod and 23.4% Lib. Where people are consistently wrong is that being a Dem means leaning lib. Think of Manchin and Sinema.
 

axxx

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That's interesting. The way our governor acts you'd think we were 99% Republican. lol

He's always publicly stating that we welcome new residents, but please, just don't change who we are. lol That's code for don't vote for a Democrat. Of course I'm hoping they do come, and do vote Democrat. I miss having a Dem Gov.
Why?
 

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I said "con v lib" states, which are 43 states more con than lib, 6 states more lib than con and one state even. If you multiplied each political ID by the number in each state, the total of each for all 50 states would be 34.6% Con, 36.1% Mod and 23.4% Lib. Where people are consistently wrong is that being a Dem means leaning lib. Think of Manchin and Sinema.
2 of 50 only constitutes an percentage where conservatives are the majority in R math. Kind of like the 85% of US that wants common sense gun regulations not representing the majority of Americans.
 

axxx

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I don't follow-you should not have any problem-Chris Christie was an R governor-no gender problems there.
I'm a male but could say I need a rep governor-does not make any sense.
 

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2 of 50 only constitutes an percentage where conservatives are the majority in R math. Kind of like the 85% of US that wants common sense gun regulations not representing the majority of Americans.

So, whose math is the winning %? Manchin, a Democon/Democrat, is sending children into poverty.
 

mrjurrs

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So, whose math is the winning %? Manchin, a Democon/Democrat, is sending children into poverty.
I concur with your conclusion, but not your math. The American Rescue Plan passed 50-49.
 

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Rep v Dem isn't the same as Con v Lib. By far, most states lean con:


The US is traditionally con. There was a time when the Dems were the cons. The Reps in the North were the libs.

Now, the cons control Congress.
Why would anyone want the U.S. to be like California and Blue?

 

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ElChupacabra

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It will be interesting to see how the laws being pushed in a variety of states will create the scenario in the cartoon you posted. It's not just about that particular issue either, but others that are more focused on "culture war" issues. There's certainly the economic considerations that drive people from on area to another, but if things swing too far right it might make some places less desirable to some than others.
 

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It will be interesting to see how the laws being pushed in a variety of states will create the scenario in the cartoon you posted. It's not just about that particular issue either, but others that are more focused on "culture war" issues. There's certainly the economic considerations that drive people from on area to another, but if things swing too far right it might make some places less desirable to some than others.
There is a true culture war raging today between red/blue regarding the true role of the Federal Gov't. It truly is sad to see disconnect between the liberal/conservative ideology.
 

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There is a true culture war raging today between red/blue regarding the true role of the Federal Gov't. It truly is sad to see disconnect between the liberal/conservative ideology.
I think it's about much more than the role of the Federal government. I suspect that if you ask regular voters, the size of government isn't on their minds compared to the specific issues that they feel are culturally problematic. This is why you see inconsistencies in what people want the government to do in some cases and what they don't want it to do in others. The disconnect isn't so much the ideologies but how people have made ideology into a far more tribal thing than it used to be. We used to have better dialog and compromise between people of differing political and ideological views, but tribalism makes that impossible because the focus becomes defending the ideology versus assessing whether the solution is just within the parameters of just one ideology. What history shows us is most of our successes have come from a combination of ideas rather than adhering to ideological purity.
 
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There is a true culture war raging today between red/blue regarding the true role of the Federal Gov't. It truly is sad to see disconnect between the liberal/conservative ideology.
There is always a culture war with conservative assholes because they alway find some change to whine about and they are always on the wrong side of history as society continually progresses. Those that backslide into conservatism, end up brutal shitholes like Afghanistan.

You people already lost, which is why republicans are solely focused on making it harder to vote and whipping their racist Taliban base up to get out and vote while they suppress democrat votes. And then stack the election boards with right wing hacks that will help ensure republcian victory
 

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I think it's about much more than the role of the Federal government. I suspect that if you ask regular voters, the size of government isn't on their minds compared to the specific issues that they feel are culturally problematic. This is why you see inconsistencies in what people want the government to do in some cases and what they don't want it to do in others. The disconnect isn't so much the ideologies but how people have made ideology into a far more tribal thing than it used to be. We used to have better dialog and compromise between people of differing political and ideological views, but tribalism makes that impossible because the focus becomes defending the ideology versus assessing whether the solution is just within the parameters of just one ideology. What history shows us is most of our successes have come from a combination of ideas rather than adhering to ideological purity.
Actually it is more about indoctrination which seems to be happening all over the nation, we keep hearing the liberals howling about making our Presidential election process a true democracy where the total count is all that matters but when talking about issues not sure that will be what the left wants since the ethnic make up of the population is quite different than the so called democracy the left is promoting. You want to put gay issues on the ballot for a democracy when only 3% are gay? how about African American issues when 12% of the population is gay? Or transgender issues when 1% of the population is in that category? Maybe Hispanic issues with 17% of the population? Indoctrination exists today and the silent majority ignored so better stick to the state and local elections giving people a choice to stay or leave the state. They are doing that all over the nation from blue to red
 

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Actually it is more about indoctrination which seems to be happening all over the nation, we keep hearing the liberals howling about making our Presidential election process a true democracy where the total count is all that matters but when talking about issues not sure that will be what the left wants since the ethnic make up of the population is quite different than the so called democracy the left is promoting.
  • What specific "indoctrination" are you referring to?
  • How is the ethnic make up relevant?

You want to put gay issues on the ballot for a democracy when only 3% are gay? how about African American issues when 12% of the population is gay? Or transgender issues when 1% of the population is in that category? Maybe Hispanic issues with 17% of the population?
That's an interesting position to take if you advocate for a representative democracy. By that measure no minority groups should have their issues addressed because they are a low percentage of population; that runs against the very idea of this country.

Indoctrination exists today and the silent majority ignored so better stick to the state and local elections giving people a choice to stay or leave the state. They are doing that all over the nation from blue to red
Some specificity on what indoctrination means would be helpful, because I'm not sure what you mean by it. Indoctrination is most common in less diverse places because there is little challenging the norms and ideas of those kind of communities, so by the actual definition of the word, certain places are more prone to it than others.
 

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  • What specific "indoctrination" are you referring to?
  • How is the ethnic make up relevant?
Posted it, ethnic issues and what a small percentage of the population they thus everyone worrying about individual freedoms and not what is best for the state or the country. Spending money in the name of compassion. What is it that liberalism promotes?
That's an interesting position to take if you advocate for a representative democracy. By that measure no minority groups should have their issues addressed because they are a low percentage of population; that runs against the very idea of this country.
A Representative democracy is what we have not a true democracy
Some specificity on what indoctrination means would be helpful, because I'm not sure what you mean by it. Indoctrination is most common in less diverse places because there is little challenging the norms and ideas of those kind of communities, so by the actual definition of the word, certain places are more prone to it than others.
You have spent most of your time here defending liberalism and liberal economics so why the question, what does liberal economics promote and why does California have such problems?
 
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