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Red State election. Who would win?

Who would win?

  • Putin

    Votes: 13 92.9%
  • Biden

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14

That whole article is interesting, but I especially liked this part:

Republicans used to be tough on Russia. But when they surrendered to Trump in 2016, many of them surrendered to Putin, too. In Gallup polls before 2016, Republicans generally viewed Russia less favorably than Democrats did. Now it’s the other way around. In polls taken by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, Republicans used to be more likely than Democrats to view Russia as a critical threat and to emphasize containment of Russian power rather than “friendly cooperation.” By 2017, those numbers had turned upside down: Only one in three Republicans described Russia’s military power as a critical threat, and most said the U.S. should focus on cooperation instead of limiting Russia’s power.
 
All I need to know about Trump and Putin was watching the body language in Helsinki. Trump was totally cowed, and sided with Putin over US intelligence.
When US intelligence was run by Clapper, Brennan & Comey Trump may have had a point!
After Comey was canned by Trump & my alma mater gave Comey a landing point by
offering him to teach a 3 credit course called an 'Ethical Leadership Course' myself &
some alumni friends refused to donate for 2 years.
 
Ethical Leadership Course' myself &
some alumni friends refused to donate for 2 years.

And this means Trump was right to go against the US and side with Putin?
 
And this means Trump was right to go against the US and side with Putin?
And this means Trump was right to go against the US and side with Putin?
Clapper, Brennan & Comey were cheerleaders for a cause that helped force the Mueller probe on
this country for two years. It should be obvious even to you that the Russian collusion hoax
was nothing more than a drummed up leftwing conspiracy theory.

The Ruusian/US problems calmed down under Trumps leadership, though he did send javelins to
Ukraine while BO sent them blankets Trump insisted on the javelins be stored in western Ukraine
so that they could not be used in the disputed Donbass region in the east. Trump did not try to
rattle Putin rather he hope for better relations. trump saw like myself there were two sides of the
Ukraine/Russian tiff.

In the last Ukraine election when Ukraine was whole & the Russian leaning candidate won. Then what happened,
the Kiev Maidan leading to a coup overthrowing the duly elected Russian leading candidate who fled literally
for his life to Russia. It's rather amusing that the man the coup leaders put in his place 'Porky' Poroshenko
is now in custody to be tried for treason. Overthrowing the elected president & then after that did not work out
well imprisoning their elected president, are not the type of adventures establishing Ukraine as a democracy.

Russia never invaded Ukraine. Trump knew that! If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine
they would be at the Dneiper River within a week & enter Lviv the real heartland
of the coup within a fortnight. Russia merely gave support to the 3 eastern provinces which
were not interested in remaining as a part of Ukraine after the coup that overthrew
Yanokovich. It's a pretty easy period of history to follow!

For nearly a year and a half, the West’s mainstream media, especially The New York Times and The Washington Post, twisted their reporting into all kinds of contortions to avoid telling their readers that the new regime in Kiev was permeated by and dependent on neo-Nazi fighters and Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who wanted a pure-blood Ukraine, without ethnic Russians.

Any mention of that sordid reality of the coup was deemed “Russian propaganda” and anyone who spoke this inconvenient truth was a “stooge of Moscow.” It wasn’t until July 7 '15 that the Times admitted the importance of the neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists in waging war against ethnic Russian rebels in the east.

Yea, Trump was aware of both sides of the conflict. Biden who is rarely aware of anything has been
forced by his handlers to take the old neo-con position of Victoria Nuland & John McCain.
Russia bad, bad, bad.
 
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Clapper, Brennan & Comey were cheerleaders for a cause that forced the Mueller probe on
this country for two years. It should be obvious even to you that the Russian collusion hoax
was nothing more than a drummed up leftwing conspiracy theory.

The Ruusian/US problems calmed down under Trumps leadership, though he did send javelins to
Ukraine while BO sent them blankets Trump insisted on the javelins be stored in western Ukraine
so that they could not be used in the disputed Donbass region in the east. Trump did not try to
rattle Putin rather he hope for better relations. trump saw like myself there were two sides of the
Ukraine/Russian tiff.

In the last Ukraine election when Ukraine was whole & the Russian leaning candidate won. Then what happened,
the Kiev Maidan leading to a coup overthrowing the duly elected Russian leading candidate who fled literally
for his life to Russia. It's rather amusing that the man the coup leaders put in his place 'Porky' Poroshenko
is now in custody to be tried for treason. Overthrowing the elected president & then after that did not work out
well & then imprisoning their own president, are not the type of adventures establishing Ukraine as a democracy.

Russia never invaded Ukraine. Trump knew that! If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine
they would be at the Dneiper River within a week & enter Lviv the real heartland
of the coup within a fortnight. Russia merely gave support to the 3 eastern provinces which
were not interested in remaining as a part of Ukraine after the coup that overthrew
Yanokovich. It's a pretty easy period of history to follow!

For nearly a year and a half, the West’s mainstream media, especially The New York Times and The Washington Post, twisted their reporting into all kinds of contortions to avoid telling their readers that the new regime in Kiev was permeated by and dependent on neo-Nazi fighters and Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who wanted a pure-blood Ukraine, without ethnic Russians.

Any mention of that sordid reality of the coup was deemed “Russian propaganda” and anyone who spoke this inconvenient truth was a “stooge of Moscow.” It wasn’t until July 7 '15 that the Times admitted the importance of the neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists in waging war against ethnic Russian rebels in the east.

Yea, Trump was aware of both sides of the conflict. Biden who is rarely aware of anything has been
forced by his handlers to take the old neo-con position of Victoria Nuland & John McCain.
Russia bad, bad, bad.

So, another vote for Putin?
 
Who do you think would win?

In a real poll, instead of this partisan hackery, there would be a real choice.

My option is NEITHER would win, because a Republican candidate would win in a "Red" State. Neither would be a Republican candidate.

Therefore, I chose the path not offered: OTHER. :coffee:
 
Seems fair to me, since you barely posted a single true sentence, and he replied with a single question. Fair enough.
You really should make an attempt to track reality rather than indulging in labeling facts as trash to be ignored and discarded.
 
Didn't Trump try to get Ukraine to manufacture dirt on his opponent before they could get aid to buy their weapons?

Yes. That led to Congress' finally impeaching him, after he had already given them about a thousand other reasons for impeachment.
 
You really should make an attempt to track reality rather than indulging in labeling facts as trash to be ignored and discarded.
Ok , so Russia never invaded Ukraine. Got it.
 
Clapper, Brennan & Comey were cheerleaders for a cause that helped force the Mueller probe on
this country for two years. It should be obvious even to you that the Russian collusion hoax
was nothing more than a drummed up leftwing conspiracy theory.

The Ruusian/US problems calmed down under Trumps leadership, though he did send javelins to
Ukraine while BO sent them blankets Trump insisted on the javelins be stored in western Ukraine
so that they could not be used in the disputed Donbass region in the east. Trump did not try to
rattle Putin rather he hope for better relations. trump saw like myself there were two sides of the
Ukraine/Russian tiff.

In the last Ukraine election when Ukraine was whole & the Russian leaning candidate won. Then what happened,
the Kiev Maidan leading to a coup overthrowing the duly elected Russian leading candidate who fled literally
for his life to Russia. It's rather amusing that the man the coup leaders put in his place 'Porky' Poroshenko
is now in custody to be tried for treason. Overthrowing the elected president & then after that did not work out
well imprisoning their elected president, are not the type of adventures establishing Ukraine as a democracy.

Russia never invaded Ukraine. Trump knew that! If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine
they would be at the Dneiper River within a week & enter Lviv the real heartland
of the coup within a fortnight. Russia merely gave support to the 3 eastern provinces which
were not interested in remaining as a part of Ukraine after the coup that overthrew
Yanokovich. It's a pretty easy period of history to follow!

For nearly a year and a half, the West’s mainstream media, especially The New York Times and The Washington Post, twisted their reporting into all kinds of contortions to avoid telling their readers that the new regime in Kiev was permeated by and dependent on neo-Nazi fighters and Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who wanted a pure-blood Ukraine, without ethnic Russians.

Any mention of that sordid reality of the coup was deemed “Russian propaganda” and anyone who spoke this inconvenient truth was a “stooge of Moscow.” It wasn’t until July 7 '15 that the Times admitted the importance of the neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists in waging war against ethnic Russian rebels in the east.

Yea, Trump was aware of both sides of the conflict. Biden who is rarely aware of anything has been
forced by his handlers to take the old neo-con position of Victoria Nuland & John McCain.
Russia bad, bad, bad.

Well that's quite a response, but relations between Ukraine and Russia is not what we're discussing. The subjects is the lack of criticism of the right for Russia, and the love for Putin.
 
Well that's quite a response, but relations between Ukraine and Russia is not what we're discussing. The subjects is the lack of criticism of the right for Russia, and the love for Putin.

What?

This faux poll posits two extreme choices, neither of which fit with the goals, ideals, or interests of the political Party your OP is trying to smear this with.

Now you assert all Republicans are not only of the "right" but don't criticize Russia and would pick Putin over an American candidate from the actual Republican Party.

This is obviously based on your belief that Trump was a dictator-wannabe, like Putin, and that Republicans are all just fascists in sheep's clothing.

Can you say "confirmation bias" much?

Trump may have tried to be "peaceful" with Russia, but he stood up to them at every turn. Who was President when Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine? Here's a hint, NOT Trump.

Who provided Crimea with actual military hardware and supplies, instead of just "blankets?" Once again, it was Trump.

Who was working to strengthen NATO, and cut off Europe's Russian oil dependance? Trump again.

The depths of the blind hatred of Trump and the Republican Party instilled by the massive propaganda campaign in the mainstream media and social media which began in 2016 and only got worse over the years after his election really did a number on people like you.
 
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This faux poll posits two extreme choices, neither of which fit with the goals, ideals, or interests of the political Party your OP is trying to smear this with.

Not my OP, but are they really two extreme choices? Trump would love to be a dictator. Luckily there are still a few in the GOP that would stop him.
Now you assert all Republicans are not only of the "right" but don't criticize Russia and would pick Putin over an American candidate from the actual Republican Party.

Where did I say ALL? there certainly are a lot of you.
Trump may have tried to be "peaceful" with Russia, but he stood up to them at every turn. Who was President when Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine? Here's a hint, NOT Trump.

Then I can assume you'd be fine with Biden preventing Russian from seizing Ukraine? Was Obama supposed to go to war to stop the takeover of Crimea? You might check facts. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/poli...tary-aid-sheets-pillows-fact-check/index.html
The depths of the blind hatred of Trump and the Republican Party instilled by the massive propaganda campaign in the mainstream media and social media which began in 2016 and only got worse over the years after his election really did a number on people like you.

Don't be silly. Trump made me dislike him all on his own. Putting unqualified people in office, rolling back EPA rules, trying to overturn an election. So many reasons.
 
Flush worthy

You just want to make the truth go away. You can't stand acknowledging that many Republicans have sold their souls to Putin.

Inb4 your whataboutist response.
 
Not my OP,

Sorry about that, I have the OP member on "invisible," and mistakenly ID'd you. My apologies.

..but are they really two extreme choices?

Yes, they are IMO. For many reasons posted in this Forum over the years.

Trump would love to be a dictator.

I doubt that, but I am not a mind reader and so prefer to see him in the best light possible when it comes to these debates. To balance all the "worst light possible" arguments. ;)

Luckily there are still a few in the GOP that would stop him.

LOL! That' like saying "water is wet."

Did you not see how many Republican candidates ran against Trump in 2016? Did you not then see how several of them stonewalled most of his efforts in Congress during his first two years while Republicans had majorities in both houses?
Where did I say ALL? there certainly are a lot of you.

Ah, the inclusion of "me" in that "a lot of you" response shows pure confirmation bias.
Then I can assume you'd be fine with Biden preventing Russian from seizing Ukraine? Was Obama supposed to go to war to stop the takeover of Crimea? You might check facts. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/poli...tary-aid-sheets-pillows-fact-check/index.html

I don't accept CNN as a credible source of ANY information. They are just a propaganda organ these days and way back when.

As for your deflcetion? Denied.
Don't be silly. Trump made me dislike him all on his own. Putting unqualified people in office, rolling back EPA rules, trying to overturn an election. So many reasons.

Well no one is saying you are not entitled to your opinion. As for "putting unqualified people in office?" One might have thought this a good thing, but for the problems we have with an entrenched bureaucracy. One which does not work well with "strangers." I.e. appointees from "outside" the agencies not pre-approved by years of working (wheeling and dealing) together with entrenched politicians.

That will be a problem for anyone who has not already held elected office.
 
This is obviously based on your belief that Trump was a dictator-wannabe, like Putin,

It's not a belief, he literally showed that's who he was, all throughout his campaign, his presidency and his push to falsely claim the election was stolen to desperately cling on to power, an assertion, a fact you will never as one of his most loyal god king servants you will never admit.

and that Republicans are all just fascists in sheep's clothing.

You are literally proving this to be true by standing by him despite what he clearly did.

And not all, but most.

Can you say "confirmation bias" much?

Irony = Astounding.

Trump may have tried to be "peaceful" with Russia, but he stood up to them at every turn.

No he didn't, in fact every chance he could he worked to curtail US policies to punish Russia for their meddling in the US elections (because it appears he benefited from them).


These are never facts you will face up to because the God King Trumps Honor must be preserved at all costs, isn't that right CA?
 
Sorry about that, I have the OP member on "invisible," and mistakenly ID'd you. My apologies.

No worries.
Yes, they are IMO. For many reasons posted in this Forum over the years.

And IMO, not that extreme (i haven't been here over the years ;))
I doubt that, but I am not a mind reader and so prefer to see him in the best light possible when it comes to these debates. To balance all the "worst light possible" arguments. ;)

I, obviously, don't see him in the best light possible. I imagine if he had the chance to be a dictator he'd jump on it.
OL! That' like saying "water is wet."

Did you not see how many Republican candidates ran against Trump in 2016? Did you not then see how several of them stonewalled most of his efforts in Congress during his first two years while Republicans had majorities in both houses?

How many republicans wanted to delay the vote. It is not a bit like saying "water is wet" - it was not a given that he would be stopped. Running against Trump in 2016 is not the same as running against Trump now.
Ah, the inclusion of "me" in that "a lot of you" response shows pure confirmation bias.

The "you" was meant as a generic you. Not you personally. I am not familiar enough with your posts to know if you
don't accept CNN as a credible source of ANY information. They are just a propaganda organ these days and way back when.

As for your deflcetion? Denied.

My deflection? I think you started with who sent what arms.
One might have thought this a good thing, but for the problems we have with an entrenched bureaucracy, which does not work well with "strangers."

Someone from outside isn't really the problem. Its people from the outside who have no clue how things work in government and who may have no interest in making thinks run smoothly (DeJoy for ex._
 
Disgusting.

Mike Pompeo asked to describe Putin: “Very shrewd, very capable. I have enormous respect for him .. he is very savvy.” https://t.co/cmNZbytPaf
 
Ok , so Russia never invaded Ukraine. Got it.
Hope you have got it. If not, know this:
The protests at Kiev Maidan had everything to do with with the problems in discussion. It led to the coup, the overthrow of the elected president Yanukovych, & protest leaders proceeded to take control of the government.
Widespread protests against the coup occurred in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine,
where Yanukovych received 85% support in the 2010 presidential election.

If there was no overthrow of the elected government, there would have been no establishment of de facto independent states in Donetsk and Luhansk. Because of the Ukranian Nationalist overthrow of Yanukovich the entire Ukraine navy had “defected” in the Crimea region, pledging allegiance to its unrecognised pro-Russian in the Donbass. Russia didn't fire a single shot
& you think they invaded. It was the eternal call of nationalism Crimea called & answered.

Now for the alienate the people of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for,
of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for, rather thought Ukraine had a democracy already. Their president was removed replaced with an interim president
who tried to ban their language and appointed billionaire governors of the eastern regions without elections then they proceeded to burn alive the people of Odessa who protested.
East Ukraine, at this point, got it's taste of the new "Ukrainian democracy and freedom" and found they did not care for it. Russia always has been 'Protector of the Slavs' saw what the new regime was doing to those slavs in E Ukraine had to defend the breakaway oblasts.

The two other oblasts who rebelled while breaking from Ukraine voted in the last election
when Ukraine was whole were actually more Russian leaning than Crimea.
In the last legitimate election 2010 the following Provinces voted accordingly:
Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

Ukraine is more united without the northeast provinces
& Crimea but consider Kharkiv & Odessa also voted heavily for
Yanakovich in the last legitimate united Ukraine election,
& those critical areas are not entirely on board with the
powers in Kiev & Lviv either., far from it! These oblasts just
might welcome Putin, we''ll see!
 
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Hope you have got it. If not, know this:
The protests at Kiev Maidan had everything to do with with the problems in discussion. It led to the coup, the overthrow of the elected president Yanukovych, & protest leaders proceeded to take control of the government.
Widespread protests against the coup occurred in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine,
where Yanukovych received 85% support in the 2010 presidential election.

If there was no overthrow of the elected government, there would have been no establishment of de facto independent states in Donetsk and Luhansk. Because of the Ukranian Nationalist overthrow of Yanukovich the entire Ukraine navy had “defected” in the Crimea region, pledging allegiance to its unrecognised pro-Russian in the Donbass. Russia didn't fire a single shot
& you think they invaded. It was the eternal call of nationalism Crimea called & answered.

Now for the alienate the people of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for,
of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for, rather thought Ukraine had a democracy already. Their president was removed replaced with an interim president
who tried to ban their language and appointed billionaire governors of the eastern regions without elections then they proceeded to burn alive the people of Odessa who protested.
East Ukraine, at this point, got it's taste of the new "Ukrainian democracy and freedom" and found they did not care for it. Russia always has been 'Protector of the Slavs' saw what the new regime was doing to those slavs in E Ukraine had to defend the breakaway oblasts.

The two other oblasts who rebelled while breaking from Ukraine voted in the last election
when Ukraine was whole were actually more Russian leaning than Crimea.
In the last legitimate election 2010 the following Provinces voted accordingly:
Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

Ukraine is more united without the northeast provinces
& Crimea but consider Kharkiv & Odessa also voted heavily for
Yanakovich in the last legitimate united Ukraine election,
& those critical areas are not entirely on board with the
powers in Kiev & Lviv either., far from it! These oblasts just
might welcome Putin, we''ll see!

I can see you have strong feelings about this and that's fine by me. I'm going to express doubts and let you have the last word because I'm not nearly so interested in the topic.

Was there not a bid for independence in 1917? Was there not an election in 1991 where Ukraine voted for independence by a huge margin? Does our own country have states like Texas that have raised the question of secession?

Even if the regions you mentioned are yearning to be Russian, taking them by military force is wrong and perilously dangerous.

The situation reminds me of the Sudetenland, Hitler, and 1939. I doubt Putin will stop at Ukraine.

Putin's excuse of peacekeeping is an absurd lie and a pitiful excuse to start a war. His version of history is skewed, revisionist and simply twisted. and he is threatening to destabilize the world.

Have you heard what Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman is saying about today's events? Is he wrong?

Any chance this is really more about farmland, food, and coal?

Now go ahead to tell me whatever you like. Keep in mind, I will read your reply but I won't reply back to it.

but the one question I HOPE YOU ANSWER PLEASE, get to the point:

whose side are you on?
 
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