• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Reason for the Iraq war

nope

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
Austria
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Read this http://www.tacomapjh.org/petrodollartheories.htm if you have time. The third guy describes it best. If you prefer it short www.wikipedia.com -> petrodollar.

First I read about it in a newspaper. It was an Articel about American economy. I'm surprised that nobody seems to know anything about it.

I want to know if there are any politicans who do something, because they think it is a good thing and not because of economic reasons.
Germany and France didn't like the Idea of an Iraq war, but why? Don't they like war or is it that they prefer buying oil for Euros than dollars.

nope
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Is it wrong that they prefer to buy oil with their currency rather than our currency?

I wouldn't have a problem with the Iraq War if it was needed. They have no reason to invade this country over Sudan. According to the Downing Street Memo, they knew that Iraq wasn't our biggest threat at the time, that Iran and Korea were more of a threat than Iraq has been all along.
I don't like how we're handling the "War on Terror". Bush Administration has been trying to make it seem like we can actually win this kind of war, that we are winning it. That is however not the case. A War on Terror is a double-edge sword, you start killing terrorists, the terrorist's relatives and friends get angered that he was killed and they join in the hatred of America.
I'm still trying to figure out why we have to feel like we're always right. No, of course, Bin Laden can't be right... did you ever question that theory? How about the fact we feel it's in the Iraqi people's best interests that we wage war on top of them. I haven't seen any safety come to these people, they're still dying daily and even at a more extreme rate (Daily).

Again, what's right and what's wrong? Those are two different perspectives or opinions. You can't possibly call anything right, and you can't possibly call anything a wrong. If it's right for someone then it's wrong for someone else and vice-versa.
 

nope

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
Austria
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I'm still wonderring why nobody talks about this petrodollar thing?
You didn't answer to this question.

If the petrodollar theorie ist true and I think their is no doubt, than the Iraq war isn't a war against Terror at all. It is a war for the american economic system. The disempowerment of Saddam is a nice Side-effect but not the reason for the war.

I agree with you that you can't fight terrorism with war. With war you can only create more terrorist. The only way to fight terrorism is to give the people something to lose. If they have something to lose in their live they won't like the idea losing it. The Israeli (however they are called in english) don't understand this too I think. Or if I think pessimistic, they think it's easier to kill them.


I don't get how somebody can ethically support a war like the Iraq war, or what is happening in Venzuela, or what happend in Chile on 9-11 1973.
The only explanation I have is that those people just don't know enough about the subjekt.
 

Cougar

New member
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
I think this Petrodollar theory is crap, frankly. If the war is about Oil then why the hell haven't we seen any benefit from it ? We just hit $60/barrel two days ago. In addition... all these opinions are 2 years old... I would like to see what they are saying now?

A majority of the oil comes from that part of the country... not Iraq only. In fact, oil production in Iraq is down significantly, mostly due to security reasons. Oil prices are up mostly due to countries such as India and China. Their populations are exploding, and buying things like cars, which they have never done before.

I don't like the situation over there but I also don't like pointless arguements over our 'justification' as to why we are there. The fact is we are there, right or wrong. Yes, the President continues to stick to his guns (all be it a stupid) and claim this is an overall war on terror. The only good thing I see coming out of this is that the freaking terrorists are blowing crap up in Iraq and not Times Square.

Yeah, thats a pretty narrow and probably a pig headed view... but when see and live through 9/11 it changes your view on things. I'm not saying we abandon our principles and stoop to their level.. but we need to do what we need to do..
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
After 9/11, honestly, how many of those terrorists would make it onto Times Square?

Do you know why we aren't seeing any benefits? It's because if we went ahead and started hoarding all of their oil and take it home with us, then the coalition leaders (other than US Leaders) would notice that. If you don't think these other leaders wouldn't make it public that we're breaking UN wishes, again, and taking a large portion of Iraq's oil, then you're crazy.
I imagine that we'll get the full benefit of Iraq's oil, once they become their own country. We've always got them in our debt, for "saving" their lives and "freeing" Iraq.

We're just mad because Russia has more oil than we do.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
galenrox said:
Oil prices are also up because OPEC has created a false shortage, which shifts the supply curve to where they can charge more for less oil. That's what they do when they meet. Remember when like a month ago oil got down to $46 a barrel? OPEC met and said that if prices don't rebound, essentially, they were gonna cut production again.
Didn't OPEC just raise production 500,000 barrels? Not a significant amount I know, but they're talking about raising it another 500,000. How have they created a false shortage?
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Just curious, but do you know you much they had decreased it by earlier? And isn't there a limit to how much they can increase it by? You can't pump the oil out faster, so I'm assuming that the either don't have all the plants in operation, or they're just sitting on the excess. But how much excess do they have?
 

nope

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
Austria
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Cougar said:
I think this Petrodollar theory is crap, frankly. If the war is about Oil then why the hell haven't we seen any benefit from it ? We just hit $60/barrel two days ago. In addition... all these opinions are 2 years old... I would like to see what they are saying now?
You see the benefit, maybe you not, but there is something. America is deep in debts and the debts increas. But nobody says anything that is the benefit of this war.

You didn't read the articel, did you. Read the Last one, the third one. I think you have time to read it, it isn't that long.

For short I don't talking about this black sticky liquid called Oil, I'm talking about dollars, debts and economy.



In 1999, Iraq, with the world's second largest oil reserves, switched to trading its oil in euros. American analysts fell about laughing; Iraq had just made a mistake that was going to beggar the nation. But two years on, alarm bells were sounding; the euro was rising against the dollar, Iraq had given itself a huge economic free kick by switching.

Iran started thinking about switching too; Venezuela, the 4th largest oil producer, began looking at it and has been cutting out the dollar by bartering oil with several nations including America's bete noir, Cuba. Russia is seeking to ramp up oil production with Europe (trading in euros) an obvious market.

The greenback's grip on oil trading and consequently on world trade in general, was under serious threat. If America did not stamp on this immediately, this economic brushfire could rapidly be fanned into a wildfire capable of consuming the US's economy and its dominance of world trade.




The importance of the petrodollar for the US Economy is not easy to understand, but everybody can understand this (also a quote form here):



Imagine this: you are deep in debt but every day you write cheques for millions of dollars you don't have -- another luxury car, a holiday home at the beach, the world trip of a lifetime.

Your cheques should be worthless but they keep buying stuff because those cheques you write never reach the bank! You have an agreement with the owners of one thing everyone wants, call it petrol/gas, that they will accept only your cheques as payment. This means everyone must hoard your cheques so they can buy petrol/gas. Since they have to keep a stock of your cheques, they use them to buy other stuff too. You write a cheque to buy a TV, the TV shop owner swaps your cheque for petrol/gas, that seller buys some vegetables at the fruit shop, the fruiterer passes it on to buy bread, the baker buys some flour with it, and on it goes, round and round -- but never back to the bank.

You have a debt on your books, but so long as your cheque never reaches the bank, you don't have to pay. In effect, you have received your TV free.

This is the position the USA has enjoyed for 30 years -- it has been getting a free world trade ride for all that time. It has been receiving a huge subsidy from everyone else in the world. As it debt has been growing, it has printed more money (written more cheques) to keep trading. No wonder it is an economic powerhouse!

Then one day, one petrol seller says he is going to accept another person's cheques, a couple of others think that might be a good idea. If this spreads, people are going to stop hoarding your cheques and they will come flying home to the bank. Since you don't have enough in the bank to cover all the cheques, very nasty stuff is going to hit the fan!

But you are big, tough and very aggressive. You don't scare the other guy who can write cheques, he's pretty big too, but given a 'legitimate' excuse, you can beat the tripes out of the lone gas seller and scare him and his mates into submission.

And that, in a nutshell, is what the USA is doing right now with Iraq.




I hope you know now, what I'm talking about. Non of the replys above, look like the author read the link I posted.

nope
 

nkgupta80

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,720
Reaction score
59
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
i don't know if that is the main reason for Iraq, but you certainly got it right in terms of overall US global currency
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Them decreasing the amount of production is a good thing, in my eyes. It'll, eventually, force us to find other methods instead of Oil. Yes, there will be hardships, but nothing good comes natural.. we have to go through hardships. These hardships, scare Americans.
 

Billo_Really

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
18,930
Reaction score
1,040
Location
HBCA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
The real reason for the Iraq war is Corporatism and the ultimate goal of a global economy by the WTO.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom