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Really wanna know what kills working class jobs?

Masada

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Over the last few months, there have been several threads about the loss of "blue collar", or "working class", or "middle class" jobs in America. A common thread of the left is to blame "Corporate America", "Wall Street", "Corporate greed", and "conservative economics" for the loss of these jobs. Several people, including myself, have proven time and time again the false logic behind those claims, yet nothing seems to get through to some people.

It always amazes me when people outright deny reality, and stop short of seeing the broader picture. They are right about one thing, POLITICS has effected jobs in America. But liberals of the left have it backwards. It's not conservative politics that hurt blue collar jobs, or working class jobs, it's liberal politics.

Read carefully this article, and ask yourself "who" occupies jobs in coal plants. Is it the rich? Is it the upper class? No, working class people occupy jobs in coal plants, not rich people. Middle class working people. Then ask yourself "who" is impacted, job wise, if that coal plant is shut down. Who loses their job? Does the rich man lose it? Or does the blue collar working man lose it?

WH Climate Adviser: 'A War on Coal Is Exactly What

Disquised as a plan to combat "climate change", liberals attack industries that PRIMARILY AND OVERWHELMINGLY employee middle class, blue collar families. They do the same thing within the manufacturing industry. The same thing within the oil and gas industry. The same thing within the farming industry. The same thing within the forestry industry.

Take those industries: manufacturing, mining, oil and gas, farming, forestry, ranching. Think of all the "working class" people that are effected because liberals are hell bent on SHUTTING THESE INDUSTRIES DOWN because of global warming.

Now, liberals will argue, "well, something has to be done". Ok, fine, let's say man made global warming really IS a real thing. Fine. But closing these industries down, or slowing them down through regulation and executive order HURTS JOBS NONETHELESS. This is what I mean about liberals not being able to have it both ways. You can't protect middle class, working class jobs, while attacking the industries they work in!

If that's not enough, Obama plans on doing this unilaterally, without the consent of Congress. Maybe this will open up some liberal eyes??? I doubt it.

Obama unveils climate change plan that goes around Congress - The Hill's E2-Wire

All through executive order and the EPA regulatory powers. Isn't this what we've been telling you Obama's been doing for 4 years now? How many times has some conservative posted the amount of NEW regulations on businesses Obama has implemented? I'm convinced that liberals of today are full fledged SOCIALISTS. In rare moments, like when Maxine Waters said, "....this liberal will be all about, uh, socializing your companies, uhhhh, errrrr, I mean, basically, taking over and running your companies.", liberals expose who they really are.

We have a President that is nothing more than a rigid ideologue who is hell bent on doing what he wants, rather than what's best for the country. He's a community organizing bully who abuses executive power to promote and advance a progressive agenda. Nothing more.

So, the next time a liberal says that it's "conservative economics" that kills jobs, just remember who's out there claiming they are going to shut down and should shut down coal plants, which employ working class people......
 

CalGun

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The wacko environmental extremism is about killing capitalism more than saving any environment. Opposite of that some losers like Al Gore have corrupted environmental issues for their personal gain. Diane Feinstein another. I'm all for clean air, water and energy independence. We should be teaching people to self sustain and be personally responsible for their needs instead of depending on an over expanded government too, but that doesn't fit with the anti capitalist agenda of government dependency. It's a nice cycle for the extreme left, kill off capitalism, and create dependency.

Remember whilst killing capitalism it's the extreme capitalist that survive and hence the rich get richer and the middle grows dependent.
 

ttwtt78640

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While I detest the econuts as much as you do, your argument fails to address one key point. If the aim was to have no energy used/produced, no more cars and etc. then that is one thing, but what is usually proposed is an alternative (workable or not) energy source, mode of transport and etc. that would also save/create jobs. ;)
 

Drake McHugh

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Over the last few months, there have been several threads about the loss of "blue collar", or "working class", or "middle class" jobs in America. A common thread of the left is to blame "Corporate America", "Wall Street", "Corporate greed", and "conservative economics" for the loss of these jobs. Several people, including myself, have proven time and time again the false logic behind those claims, yet nothing seems to get through to some people.

It always amazes me when people outright deny reality, and stop short of seeing the broader picture. They are right about one thing, POLITICS has effected jobs in America. But liberals of the left have it backwards. It's not conservative politics that hurt blue collar jobs, or working class jobs, it's liberal politics.

Read carefully this article, and ask yourself "who" occupies jobs in coal plants. Is it the rich? Is it the upper class? No, working class people occupy jobs in coal plants, not rich people. Middle class working people. Then ask yourself "who" is impacted, job wise, if that coal plant is shut down. Who loses their job? Does the rich man lose it? Or does the blue collar working man lose it?

WH Climate Adviser: 'A War on Coal Is Exactly What

Disquised as a plan to combat "climate change", liberals attack industries that PRIMARILY AND OVERWHELMINGLY employee middle class, blue collar families. They do the same thing within the manufacturing industry. The same thing within the oil and gas industry. The same thing within the farming industry. The same thing within the forestry industry.

Take those industries: manufacturing, mining, oil and gas, farming, forestry, ranching. Think of all the "working class" people that are effected because liberals are hell bent on SHUTTING THESE INDUSTRIES DOWN because of global warming.

Now, liberals will argue, "well, something has to be done". Ok, fine, let's say man made global warming really IS a real thing. Fine. But closing these industries down, or slowing them down through regulation and executive order HURTS JOBS NONETHELESS. This is what I mean about liberals not being able to have it both ways. You can't protect middle class, working class jobs, while attacking the industries they work in!

If that's not enough, Obama plans on doing this unilaterally, without the consent of Congress. Maybe this will open up some liberal eyes??? I doubt it.

Obama unveils climate change plan that goes around Congress - The Hill's E2-Wire

All through executive order and the EPA regulatory powers. Isn't this what we've been telling you Obama's been doing for 4 years now? How many times has some conservative posted the amount of NEW regulations on businesses Obama has implemented? I'm convinced that liberals of today are full fledged SOCIALISTS. In rare moments, like when Maxine Waters said, "....this liberal will be all about, uh, socializing your companies, uhhhh, errrrr, I mean, basically, taking over and running your companies.", liberals expose who they really are.

We have a President that is nothing more than a rigid ideologue who is hell bent on doing what he wants, rather than what's best for the country. He's a community organizing bully who abuses executive power to promote and advance a progressive agenda. Nothing more.

So, the next time a liberal says that it's "conservative economics" that kills jobs, just remember who's out there claiming they are going to shut down and should shut down coal plants, which employ working class people......
His attacks on coal will not just hurt workers. It will also hurt people who depend on coal for their source of heat(as most people here in SE Wisconsin do).
 

Helix

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New tech in manufacturing also kills a lot of blue collar jobs. Not that I'm arguing we should go back, though.

As for CO2, what is being proposed is about the dumbest way to address the problem. What we should do is build nuclear and renewable electrical generation facilities publicly. We get enough of those online, and coal will die on the vine. The current plan is too regressive and poorly thought out.
 

Masada

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All good points. Not only is the left's "plan" for green energy dumb, the market can't support it. People don't want electric cars. Me for instance. I drive a truck, because I haul trailers, boats, campers, and dogs around all the time. I NEED a truck, unless of course they've manufactured an electric vehicle that can tow 6000 pounds at 75mph for 500 miles before I have to stop that I don't know about?

All the while, the atmosphere is cooling, not warming. Now, if there was ever something to really be concerned about, it's global cooling, not warming. What is most telling, is the fact that the Obama administration, and it appears, Obama himself, SUPPORT coal plants in other countries, just not here in America. Hmmmm....well, if coal plant pollution is harming THE GLOBE, what difference does it make if the plant is in America or Brazil?????

This tells you all you need to know. It's not about global warming at all. It's all a massive scheme of redistribution to the third world. Read the UN charters on climate change. Developed countries would be asked to give MONEY to developing countries for "development of energy technology", in an attempt to catch them up with the developed nations. Sounds like a great idea, IF the money actually got used to develop technology instead of other things. It's purely a redistribution scheme, which was pretty much exposed with Al Gore's "carbon credit" scheme where he's making millions of dollars but doesn't reduce emissions at all. It reduces one country's emissions, while it increases emissions of the country receiving the credits!!!! So, it's become clear that the goal is to reduce America's wealth, not it's carbon footprint.
 

Lutherf

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Over the last few months, there have been several threads about the loss of "blue collar", or "working class", or "middle class" jobs in America. A common thread of the left is to blame "Corporate America", "Wall Street", "Corporate greed", and "conservative economics" for the loss of these jobs. Several people, including myself, have proven time and time again the false logic behind those claims, yet nothing seems to get through to some people.......
It even goes beyond just the regulatory issues. As an example, down here in southern AZ we're working on getting the Rosemont Copper mine up and running. This has been going on since 2007 with various permitting issues and absolutely everything having to go through multiple law suits. On top of that local officials are trying to cut off funding for various infrastructure projects that the mine would need citing a need to use that money for improving cross border relations. This mine would bring as many as 1500 direct jobs to the Tucson area and have an indirect impact on thousands more jobs the majority of which would be "blue collar". This is all going on before the unions start making their demands.
 

Velvet Elvis

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I'm seeing this first hand.

Patriot Coal is in bankruptcy court. 0bama regulations and irrational union demands are crippling this company. The ironic part is that the union sheeple are marching in front of their headquarters every other week. They've got these retard signs about "fairness" when their employer is the one getting screwed over. Seems everything was fine until their God-President came along.
 

Unitedwestand13

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New tech in manufacturing also kills a lot of blue collar jobs. Not that I'm arguing we should go back, though.

As for CO2, what is being proposed is about the dumbest way to address the problem. What we should do is build nuclear and renewable electrical generation facilities publicly. We get enough of those online, and coal will die on the vine. The current plan is too regressive and poorly thought out.
But these same environmental extremists oppose having anything to do with nuclear power.
 

Helix

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But these same environmental extremists oppose having anything to do with nuclear power.
i don't much care about extremists or what they want. i'm someone who wants to solve the problem, and i see more than one problem. i think that my idea is the best non-regressive solution for all of the above.
 

Dapper Andy

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While I detest the econuts as much as you do, your argument fails to address one key point. If the aim was to have no energy used/produced, no more cars and etc. then that is one thing, but what is usually proposed is an alternative (workable or not) energy source, mode of transport and etc. that would also save/create jobs. ;)
It might save or create some jobs but most of those are the type of highly skilled jobs these blue collar workers can't perform and are so automated that it limits the number overall. I mean, there is only so much "blue collar" work to be done with solar, wind, or water power and almost all of those jobs are temporary construction jobs.

All that is with the assumption that the new technology is viable too.

How many people have lost jobs as hybrid car companies close their doors?
 

ttwtt78640

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It might save or create some jobs but most of those are the type of highly skilled jobs these blue collar workers can't perform and are so automated that it limits the number overall. I mean, there is only so much "blue collar" work to be done with solar, wind, or water power and almost all of those jobs are temporary construction jobs.

All that is with the assumption that the new technology is viable too.

How many people have lost jobs as hybrid car companies close their doors?
Hybrid cars sales are not going down.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Maps and Data
 

Diving Mullah

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Over the last few months, there have been several threads about the loss of "blue collar", or "working class", or "middle class" jobs in America. A common thread of the left is to blame "Corporate America", "Wall Street", "Corporate greed", and "conservative economics" for the loss of these jobs. Several people, including myself, have proven time and time again the false logic behind those claims, yet nothing seems to get through to some people.

It always amazes me when people outright deny reality, and stop short of seeing the broader picture. They are right about one thing, POLITICS has effected jobs in America. But liberals of the left have it backwards. It's not conservative politics that hurt blue collar jobs, or working class jobs, it's liberal politics.

Read carefully this article, and ask yourself "who" occupies jobs in coal plants. Is it the rich? Is it the upper class? No, working class people occupy jobs in coal plants, not rich people. Middle class working people. Then ask yourself "who" is impacted, job wise, if that coal plant is shut down. Who loses their job? Does the rich man lose it? Or does the blue collar working man lose it?

WH Climate Adviser: 'A War on Coal Is Exactly What

Disquised as a plan to combat "climate change", liberals attack industries that PRIMARILY AND OVERWHELMINGLY employee middle class, blue collar families. They do the same thing within the manufacturing industry. The same thing within the oil and gas industry. The same thing within the farming industry. The same thing within the forestry industry.

Take those industries: manufacturing, mining, oil and gas, farming, forestry, ranching. Think of all the "working class" people that are effected because liberals are hell bent on SHUTTING THESE INDUSTRIES DOWN because of global warming.

Now, liberals will argue, "well, something has to be done". Ok, fine, let's say man made global warming really IS a real thing. Fine. But closing these industries down, or slowing them down through regulation and executive order HURTS JOBS NONETHELESS. This is what I mean about liberals not being able to have it both ways. You can't protect middle class, working class jobs, while attacking the industries they work in!

If that's not enough, Obama plans on doing this unilaterally, without the consent of Congress. Maybe this will open up some liberal eyes??? I doubt it.

Obama unveils climate change plan that goes around Congress - The Hill's E2-Wire

All through executive order and the EPA regulatory powers. Isn't this what we've been telling you Obama's been doing for 4 years now? How many times has some conservative posted the amount of NEW regulations on businesses Obama has implemented? I'm convinced that liberals of today are full fledged SOCIALISTS. In rare moments, like when Maxine Waters said, "....this liberal will be all about, uh, socializing your companies, uhhhh, errrrr, I mean, basically, taking over and running your companies.", liberals expose who they really are.

We have a President that is nothing more than a rigid ideologue who is hell bent on doing what he wants, rather than what's best for the country. He's a community organizing bully who abuses executive power to promote and advance a progressive agenda. Nothing more.

So, the next time a liberal says that it's "conservative economics" that kills jobs, just remember who's out there claiming they are going to shut down and should shut down coal plants, which employ working class people......
Let me get this straight...you or rather the link which you probably are a subscriber to its belief, believes that 32+ years of decline of Middle Class and the stagnate wages of which was governed by 3 Republican President(that is 24 years of 32) is solely due to Obama and this NEW War on Coal?

Sometimes it really help you say out loud that jumble of tangled thoughts that goes on in one's mind, just to hear how ridiculous it really sounds!

Diving Mullah
 

Dapper Andy

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What would you call 2007 to 2011 if not a decline?

A five year steady reduction in sales?

Whether 2012 was an improvement over 2011 is besides the point. Sales are just plain bad, especially for any hybrid not called the Toyota Prius, and the anemic demand led many companies, some who took public money, to shut their doors. Fortunately no one called for a "war" on gasoline powered vehicles like the Obama Administration is against coal.
 

ttwtt78640

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What would you call 2007 to 2011 if not a decline?

A five year steady reduction in sales?

Whether 2012 was an improvement over 2011 is besides the point. Sales are just plain bad, especially for any hybrid not called the Toyota Prius, and the anemic demand led many companies, some who took public money, to shut their doors. Fortunately no one called for a "war" on gasoline powered vehicles like the Obama Administration is against coal.
We call that period a recession, the U.S. economy shrank in many areas during that time, which was clearly explained in the link provided.
 

Dapper Andy

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Let me get this straight...you or rather the link which you probably are a subscriber to its belief, believes that 32+ years of decline of Middle Class and the stagnate wages of which was governed by 3 Republican President(that is 24 years of 32) is solely due to Obama and this NEW War on Coal?

Sometimes it really help you say out loud that jumble of tangled thoughts that goes on in one's mind, just to hear how ridiculous it really sounds!

Diving Mullah
Is that really what you believe he said?
 

Dapper Andy

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We call that period a recession, the U.S. economy shrank in many areas during that time, which was clearly explained in the link provided.
So sales didn't decline, they recessed.

:roll:

Whatever helps you sleep at night. It's not important.

What is important is how few sales actually materialized despite the government basically paying people to buy them. Hybrid cars just weren't a viable alternative, a market for them never emerged, and companies went out of business because of it. Declined? Recessed? They're gone regardless of what you choose call the steady five year decline in the already anemic sales numbers.

Of course all of that ignores Toyota, makers of the only remotely successful hybrid car, manufactures their cars in Japan.
 
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