Reagan V Obama

[Fiddytree]

I don't agree with all ten items on the list either. And, I would have sworn old Ron-Ron was a war monger that would have made Cheney blush, but the fact remains, he did write that he wanted a world free of nuclear weapons. Imagine the howls from the Fox News crowd if Obama wrote that.

Well, it was no shock to anyone that individuals within the Reagan administration or the Bush administrations (Senior and W.) thought Reagan's ideas naive at best, but politically and strategically useful.

 

[calamity]

Which is irrelevant to the initial claim. You are now down to diverting. Let me help you. This was your initial claim:



You made the attempt to move blame(not credit) from Reagan. I pointed out that Reagan was in fact a major player.

Of course he was. Although arming the mujahideen was a Carter initiative, operation Cyclone was still led by Reagan, who, for 8 years, expanded it which eventually led to the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.

President Reagan greatly expanded the program as part of the Reagan Doctrine of aiding anti-Soviet resistance movements abroad. To execute this policy, Reagan deployed CIA Special Activities Division paramilitary officers to equip the Mujihadeen forces against the Red Army. Although the CIA and Texas Congressman Charlie Wilson have received the most attention for their roles, the key architect of the strategy was Michael G. Vickers, a young CIA paramilitary officer working for Gust Avrakotos, the CIA's regional head who had a close relationship with Wilson. Vicker's strategy was to use a broad mix of weapons, tactics, logistics, along with training programs, to enhance the rebels' ability to fight a guerilla war against the Soviets.[11][12] Reagan's program assisted in ending the Soviet's occupation in Afghanistan.[13][14] A Pentagon senior official, Michael Pillsbury, successfully advocated providing Stinger missiles to the Afghan resistance, according to recent books and academic articles.

Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[APACHERAT]

Which is irrelevant to the initial claim. You are now down to diverting. Let me help you. This was your initial claim:



You made the attempt to move blame(not credit) from Reagan. I pointed out that Reagan was in fact a major player.

And I pointed out that the leftist article failed to mention liberals like Rep. Charlie Wilson who was directly involved with the Reagan administration. Without Charlie Wilson, I don't think Congress would have appropriated the money to arm the Mujahideen.

Not all liberals are "blame America first", "San Fransisco liberal" radicals from the fringe of the left. Many were/are patriotic Americans like Rep. Charlie Wilson. (RIP)

 

[calamity]

A point you may wish to consider!

Reagan didn't raise taxes; it is not a presidential power. The democratic party controlled the House.. from whence all taxes come. Even if he wanted more taxes the democratic party could have said NO.

Have a safe day, Calamity

Thom Paine

If he didn't veto the tax increases, he helped raise them.

Nice try though.

 

[Redress]

Of course he was. Although arming the mujahideen was a Carter initiative, operation Cyclone was still led by Reagan, who, for 8 years, expanded it which eventually led to the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.

Yeah, Carter was definitely in the mix.

And I pointed out that the leftist article failed to mention liberals like Rep. Charlie Wilson who was directly involved with the Reagan administration. Without Charlie Wilson, I don't think Congress would have appropriated the money to arm the Mujahideen.

Not all liberals are "blame America first", "San Fransisco liberal" radicals from the fringe of the left. Many were/are patriotic Americans like Rep. Charlie Wilson. (RIP)

make up your damn mind, is it blame or credit? You started by trying to divert blame, then end up trying to give credit, all for the same event.

 

[calamity]

And I pointed out that the leftist article failed to mention liberals like Rep. Charlie Wilson who was directly involved with the Reagan administration. Without Charlie Wilson, I don't think Congress would have appropriated the money to arm the Mujahideen.

Not all liberals are "blame America first", "San Fransisco liberal" radicals from the fringe of the left. Many were/are patriotic Americans like Rep. Charlie Wilson. (RIP)

THere's plenty of blame for that to go around. Daddy Bush was warned that we were creating a monster over there, and Little Bush should have paid attention when he was warned that OBL planned to attack the US in the fall of 2001. Clinton could have ordered Bin Laden dead, but he was probably distracted playing impeachment paddy cake with the other serial adulterer Newt Gingrich.

 

[calamity]

Yeah, Carter was definitely in the mix.



make up your damn mind, is it blame or credit? You started by trying to divert blame, then end up trying to give credit, all for the same event.

Conservative ploy: Divert blame, take credit; repeat.

 

[ChezC3]

Shouldn't this be called Dumb V Dumber?

 

[Thom Paine]

So you are saying Reagan did not sign them into law? Want to bet on that?

Hmm, ..... I re-read what you quoted and must conclude that is NOT what I said at all. I can only assume you are mingling my statement with anothers comment.

have a nice day

Thom Paine

 

[Redress]

Hmm, ..... I re-read what you quoted and must conclude that is NOT what I said at all. I can only assume you are mingling my statement with anothers comment.

have a nice day

Thom Paine

Well, if Reagan did sign those bills into law, he can and does at the very least share the blame for raising taxes. In other words, your point failed.

 

[APACHERAT]

THere's plenty of blame for that to go around. Daddy Bush was warned that we were creating a monster over there, and Little Bush should have paid attention when he was warned that OBL planned to attack the US in the fall of 2001. Clinton could have ordered Bin Laden dead, but he was probably distracted playing impeachment paddy cake with the other serial adulterer Newt Gingrich.

It was President Clinton's terrorist policy that Al Qaeda wasn't a national security issue but a law enforcement issue.

It was President G.W. Bush who inherited Clinton's failed terrorist policy. But Bush didn't spend eight years blaming Clinton's failed policy.

As for the warnings, how many warnings do you think every President hears every morning when he's briefed by his national security team ?

Maybe if Attorney General Janet Reno hadn't put up the "Wall" that forbid the international intelligence community from sharing intelligence on Al Qaeda with civil/federal law enforcement (FBI) the 9/11 Al Qaeda attacks could have been prevented ?

But remember, the 9/11 Commission Report pointed out that it was political correctness that allowed the Al Qaeda terrorist to board those aircraft on the morning of 9-11-01.

And those PC policies are still in affect today and that's why NTS agents strip search white 90 year old grannies and grab your junk.

 

[Thom Paine]

If he didn't veto the tax increases, he helped raise them.

Nice try though.

Maybe you were not politically aware during that period. Reagan did what would be novel in governmental operations today. He didn't ignore the House. He did what they legislated despite the fact that then Speaker of the House Tip O'neil reneged on a previous agreement to cut some spending and limit tax increases. There are many more details than can be discussed here. You can find the information in the Congressional Record if you want to know the exact actions. Coercion by Congress is more appropriate than assistance in this situation.

have a safe day, Calamity

Thom Paine

 

[calamity]

It was President Clinton's terrorist policy that Al Qaeda wasn't a national security issue but a law enforcement issue.

It was President G.W. Bush who inherited Clinton's failed terrorist policy. But Bush didn't spend eight years blaming Clinton's failed policy.

As for the warnings, how many warnings do you think every President hears every morning when he's briefed by his national security team ?

Maybe if Attorney General Janet Reno hadn't put up the "Wall" that forbid the international intelligence community from sharing intelligence on Al Qaeda with civil/federal law enforcement (FBI) the 9/11 Al Qaeda attacks could have been prevented ?

But remember, the 9/11 Commission Report pointed out that it was political correctness that allowed the Al Qaeda terrorist to board those aircraft on the morning of 9-11-01.

And those PC policies are still in affect today and that's why NTS agents strip search white 90 year old grannies and grab your junk.

Yeah, Bush didn't blame Clinton, he just ignored Clinton era intel when warned that OBL was a threat. All team Bush thought about was Iraq. Figures, those guys couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Irony is all you wingers yammering endlessly that "Bush kept us safe". Meanwhile, Obama actually does keep America safe, and all the Right does is complain. Zero credibility have you.

 

[calamity]

Maybe you were not politically aware during that period. Reagan did what would be novel in governmental operations today. He didn't ignore the House. He did what they legislated despite the fact that then Speaker of the House Tip O'neil reneged on a previous agreement to cut some spending and limit tax increases. There are many more details than can be discussed here. You can find the information in the Congressional Record if you want to know the exact actions. Coercion by Congress is more appropriate than assistance in this situation.

have a safe day, Calamity

Thom Paine

I thought it was the presidents job to veto legislation his constituency elected him to block? Silly me.

You're saying Tip out maneuvered Ronny. That doesn't say much about "the greatest president", to quote many on the Right.

 

[Thom Paine]

I thought it was the presidents job to veto legislation his constituency elected him to block? Silly me.

You're saying Tip out maneuvered Ronny. That doesn't say much about "the greatest president", to quote many on the Right.

Actually, Calamity, it may display more about shenanigans of U.S. politics than it shows about either individual.

Have a good day sir

Thom Paine

 

[Thom Paine]

Yeah, Bush didn't blame Clinton, he just ignored Clinton era intel when warned that OBL was a threat. All team Bush thought about was Iraq.

In the murky world of Intell, info is at best blurred during and often long after the incident. I am unsure where you established Bush's attitude about prior Intell but if it is so you might note that Clinton ignored his own data. In '98 and/or '99 Sudan offered OBL to Clinton and the Pres. did not grab him. I seem to recall, you can check on it if you want, that it happened a couple more times. No one in D.C. is as perfect as we would like..

Keep it safe, Calamity

Thom Paine

 

[Blue_State]

You tried to dismiss Reagan's responsibility. I find it amusing how some of you conservatives blame every broken nail on Obama, but Reagan was never, ever at fault.

I thought we were blaming everything on Bush.

 

[calamity]

In the murky world of Intell, info is at best blurred during and often long after the incident. I am unsure where you established Bush's attitude about prior Intell but if it is so you might note that Clinton ignored his own data. In '98 and/or '99 Sudan offered OBL to Clinton and the Pres. did not grab him. I seem to recall, you can check on it if you want, that it happened a couple more times. No one in D.C. is as perfect as we would like..

Keep it safe, Calamity

Thom Paine

Most of the intel came from Richard Clarke and that pesky memo, titled: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike US". But, as you should know, the USA should have been put on heightened alert after 9-9-01 when Ahmad Shah Massoud was assassinated in Takhar Province.



I already mentioned that Clinton screwed up on OBL because he was too busy fighting impeachment over blow jobs initiated by the philandering hypocrite, Newt Gingrich.

 

[APACHERAT]

Yeah, Bush didn't blame Clinton, he just ignored Clinton era intel when warned that OBL was a threat. All team Bush thought about was Iraq. Figures, those guys couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Irony is all you wingers yammering endlessly that "Bush kept us safe". Meanwhile, Obama actually does keep America safe, and all the Right does is complain. Zero credibility have you.

Fort Hood, Benghazi, Boston Marathon. Lets not forget that 73 % of American deaths in Afghanistan didn't happen during the 7 years and 3 months during the Bush administration but during the first 4 years of the Obama administration because of politically correct rules of engagement that was forced upon our troops by the Obama administration.

Lets not forget that Al Qaeda has spread all over the Middle East and Africa and is larger and more dangerous today than it was in 2008.

Did you really believe Obama last week when he said the world is more stable today than back in 2008 ? :lamo :2rofll: :lamo

 

[APACHERAT]

Most of the intel came from Richard Clarke and that pesky memo, titled: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike US". But, as you should know, the USA should have been put on heightened alert after 9-9-01 when Ahmad Shah Massoud was assassinated in Takhar Province.
.

"Heightened alert" ?

Exactly what should have been done ? Profiling of Middle Eastern looking men at the airports ? The liberals and the ACLU would have gone bananas.

 

[calamity]

"Heightened alert" ?

Exactly what should have been done ? Profiling of Middle Eastern looking men at the airports ? The liberals and the ACLU would have gone bananas.

They sure knew who the guilty folks were quick enough. So, no. Just looking out for those 19 guys would have been enough...or, at the very least, get on the fighter jets on it when 4 airplanes were hijacked one bright and sunny Tuesday morning in early September.

 

[calamity]

Fort Hood, Benghazi, Boston Marathon. Lets not forget that 73 % of American deaths in Afghanistan didn't happen during the 7 years and 3 months during the Bush administration but during the first 4 years of the Obama administration because of politically correct rules of engagement that was forced upon our troops by the Obama administration.

Lets not forget that Al Qaeda has spread all over the Middle East and Africa and is larger and more dangerous today than it was in 2008.

Did you really believe Obama last week when he said the world is more stable today than back in 2008 ? :lamo :2rofll: :lamo

Hood and Boston were crimes committed by American Citizens. Hardly apples to apples. And, Benghazi is in a foreign country, not really worthy of the rallying cry we hear from the Right. You don't hear the Left cry Beirut every time Ronnie gets mentioned. Do you?

 

[APACHERAT]

Hood and Boston were crimes committed by American Citizens. Hardly apples to apples. And, Benghazi is in a foreign country, not really worthy of the rallying cry we hear from the Right. You don't hear the Left cry Beirut every time Ronnie gets mentioned. Do you?

The Fort Hood terrorist attack was an Al Qaeda terrorist attack.

Obama needs to brush up on his Arabic, yelling "Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar" while shooting dozens of soldiers in a liberal gun free zone on a military installation isn't Arabic for better working conditions as Obama wanted us to believe.

 

[Fenton]

Reagan vs Obama ?

Reagan took a desperatelly ill Democrat built economy and corrected it.

He corrected the horrible foreign policy mistakes of the second worse President to ever be elected.

Obama took over after the effects of the Democrat mandated sub-prime collapse caused a recesdion, and then he extended that recession for 5 years and counting.

Ge spent more than any President before him and we have nothing to show for it except more debt.

There is no comparing the greatest President ( Reagan ) to the worst President ( Obama ).

 

[Somerville]

Reagan vs Obama ?

Reagan took a desperatelly ill Democrat built economy and corrected it.

He corrected the horrible foreign policy mistakes of the second worse President to ever be elected.

Obama took over after the effects of the Democrat mandated sub-prime collapse caused a recesdion, and then he extended that recession for 5 years and counting.

Ge spent more than any President before him and we have nothing to show for it except more debt.

There is no comparing the greatest President ( Reagan ) to the worst President ( Obama ).

Always fun to read the words of the True Believers - those who KNOW the Truth while all others are to be considered delusional when they reference the real world and not the mythological one inhabited by the St Ronnie worshippers.


In the opinion of the unbiased scholars, Ronald Reagan was a mediocre, at best President, with good communication skills who by the beginning of his second term was beginning the show the effects of Alzheimer's.

For most of the eight years Reagan was in office, I was living in other countries and I still remember people my age asking questions about this guy Reagan.