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Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

Crunch

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He lost me right here.

Reagan Republican: the GOP should file for bankruptcy
Stockman rushes into the ring swinging like a boxer: "If there were such a thing as Chapter 11 for politicians, the Republican push to extend the unaffordable Bush tax cuts would amount to a bankruptcy filing. The nation's public debt ... will soon reach $18 trillion
What was the debt when Dems took over Congress? $8,506,973,899,215.23 So in 4 years the Dems doubled the national debt, yet this ass blames the Republicans? :lamo
 

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He lost me right here.



What was the debt when Dems took over Congress? $8,506,973,899,215.23 So in 4 years the Dems doubled the national debt, yet this ass blames the Republicans? :lamo
Our tax revenue has been less than our spending for a long time. Now, who brought down our tax revenue? Hmmm....
 

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I suppose the poor sap will soon be labeled a disgruntled former staffer who really wasn't of much importance. The GOP is good at throwing party dissidents under the bus.
 

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So no legit conservatives on this board are going to come in here and comment I guess?
 

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So no legit conservatives on this board are going to come in here and comment I guess?
Define "legit" conservative, please....or are you suggesting that many of them are illegitimate?:2razz:
 

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Define "legit" conservative, please....or are you suggesting that many of them are illegitimate?:2razz:
Well for example, one's that don't believe things that can't be debated. For example, crunch believes President Obama being president is illeagal.
 

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He lost me right here.



What was the debt when Dems took over Congress? $8,506,973,899,215.23 So in 4 years the Dems doubled the national debt, yet this ass blames the Republicans? :lamo
The numbers are staggering, no doubt. And I am pretty sure that "this ass" is not claiming the GOP is solely responsible, but that the GOP is supposed to be the more responsible party. It used to be, and I am old enough to remember those days.
 

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Yeah I remember when being a Republican actually stood for something. I used to know quite a few good ones, but they are a dying breed.
 

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Yeah I remember when being a Republican actually stood for something. I used to know quite a few good ones, but they are a dying breed.
Oh, for cripe's sake. What Richard Cohen or Molly Ivins column did you pull that from?
 

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Our tax revenue has been less than our spending for a long time. Now, who brought down our tax revenue? Hmmm....
It's Obama's fault.
 

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Oh, for cripe's sake. What Richard Cohen or Molly Ivins column did you pull that from?
Sorry but I don't know who those people are. I'm talking about people and politicans I personally have known in life.
 

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It's difficult for me to read the article in the OP and not be angry at the condition this country finds itself in today from the political party that's screaming such things as "unconstitutional, tyranny, nationalization, redistribution of wealth and liberty" while also smiling in the face of average Americans telling them not to trust in the party led by a man who has shown the courage to tackle the issues the opposition has completely and utterly ignored for well over 25 years!! Think about that for a moment...

I've been interested in politics since my high school years. Reagan was President when I graduated. Thus, the politics and long-term affects of Reaganomics didn't register to me back then. But over the years and little by little, I've become a student of politics especially within the last three years, and the more I learn of the power grab and of how disporportioned the economic imbalance has become between "the haves and the have nots" in this country, the louder I scream at the top of my lungs "don't believe the hype" the Republican Party is trying to feed this country especially now.

If people would just open their eyes and stop listening to the talking heads or certain aspects of the media for that matter and begin to look back at history and learn...just learn...for themselves where this country once was before all the white noise got so loud, so distorted and politicians stopped working for US and began to lookout for themselves AND their lobbyist/Corporate friends and how so many social-economic issues that affect so many of us on a daily basis have been so widely ignored for so long, they'd be angry, outraged! But more important, they'd wake the hell up and realize not everything they hear is exactly as they've been told.

It's not that I didn't know about some of the things that have occurred on the political scene over the years. I mean, who doesn't know about Iran-Contra, the fall of the Berlin wall, Desert Storm, Monica Lewinski, Al Quaida, WMD and many of the other so-called "political issues" that have affected this country over the last 25 years or so. But how many of us know the intimate details behind the storylines, i.e., how the banking industry was absolved of their government oversight obligation because someone in government decided it was a smart move to deregulate this industry and remove the very checks and balances that were implimented in the wake of the Great Depression for the sole purpose of preventing the economic collapse our nation currently find ourselves in today? Rules that were put in place that were designed to prevent the very "creative financing schemes" concocted on Wall Street and the extreme risk within our banking system taken at the expense of the taxpaying consumer who is now taking it on the chin day, after day, after day, finding it extremely difficult to put food on the table while certain politicians stand back and instead of standing on the sidelines laying blame against the party that said, "Yes, We Can," while also consistently saying, "NO, We're Not!!! going to do a damned thing to help pull this country out of the gutter but instead will let it go still further into the toilet until our side can regains power to once again do whatever the hell we want"... Is that the government this country truly wants...again? They may claim they're for "what's right for America," but what political faction has the gull to be so two-faced on nearly every issue over the last 18 months secretly compromising on some issue while publically claiming their ideas have been rejected while also voting "NO" just so the public can "see" that they're upholding their political idealogical values all in the name of democracy and upholding the Constitution, the very document their party has subverted far more than the Democrat party over the last 40 years!? Can you say "military and judicial power grab via executive orders and signing statements?"

The linked article in the OP speaks of the exact issues I've discussed with my friends, neighbors, family and coworkers since before the 2008 Presidential primaries began. Tax cuts, for example, may stimulate the economy but they don't pay for themselves - never have and never will - and they should never be allowed to remain in place for so long across the economic spectrum particularly when one side of the tax bracket receives a much larger break than another for as long as they've been allowed and used as a replacement for the overall tax base. Those who believe in this form of "taxation" would have one believe that as long as people are working the government will generate revenue. While this may be true to an extent, the problem is that the so-called revenue is being spent faster than it can be generated. And while Republican are saying "the deficit is out of control," which one of them is willing to cut any portion of the social or government programs they claim are increasing the national debt at such historic levels?

One example of just such an absordity is Medicare. We've been told Medicare takes up nearly 1/3 of the national budget, but when some in government have tried to modify the health care system in such a way they believe will address the health care and health insurance issues that have negatively affected Americans across the economic divide to bring down the cost not only of Medicare but health care in general, those in opposition balk at making any positive changes that can reduce the cost in meaningful ways. Does this make sense to you? To leave a health care system in place that's costing the country millions, if not billions, for so few? You could make the same argument for many other social programs, i.e., Medicaid, Welfare, Pell Grants, etc., but until you're willing to tackle the problem head-on instead of looking out for your own political career as well as your position of power while retaining that lobbyist in your hip pocket, nothing meaningful ever gets changed!!! Still, I would much rather elect someone to political office who is willing to tackle the problems in this country - problems that have been ignored for years and years and years, problems I took stock of in my youth that have only increased in severity as I've neared middle-age - than to place someone in power whose party affiliation has done nothing more than give lip-service to the issues and will grab power in the same subversive ways the moment they get back in the White House.

I'm sorry, Republicans. There's just no way any one of you would get my vote at a time our nation's is hemmiraging on so many levela while listening to you spin the problems injecting fear at every turn instead of working with the party that legitimately gained control of Congress and the White House and are trying to do something to turn things around. We didn't get in this mess overnight. It took years for our economy to get this way. It's going to take years to turn things around. But at this moment in our nation's history, I cannot in good faith vote a Republican into office. I just don't think they have a plan to restore this country to greatness. But they'll definitely look out for their own selve interests again if given the chance to take back Congress and the White House.
 

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Sorry but I don't know who those people are. I'm talking about people and politicans I personally have known in life.
Dude, you're recycling a line that was old before you were born.

Liberals love to talk about how much better yesterday's Republicans/conservatives were. Always will.
 
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Dude, you're recycling a line that was old before you were born.

Liberals love to talk about how much better yesterday's Republicans/conservatives were.
Dude, isn't that exactly what this article is about? It ain't just liberals saying it.

Harshaw said:
Always will.
I hope not, but I fear so.
 

UtahBill

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It's difficult for me to read the article in the OP and not be angry at the condition this country finds itself in today from the political party that's screaming such things as "unconstitutional, tyranny, nationalization, redistribution of wealth and liberty" while also smiling in the face of average Americans telling them not to trust in the party led by a man who has shown the courage to tackle the issues the opposition has completely and utterly ignored for well over 25 years!! Think about that for a moment...

I've been interested in politics since my high school years. Reagan was President when I graduated. Thus, the politics and long-term affects of Reaganomics didn't register to me back then. But over the years and little by little, I've become a student of politics especially within the last three years, and the more I learn of the power grab and of how disporportioned the economic imbalance has become between "the haves and the have nots" in this country, the louder I scream at the top of my lungs "don't believe the hype" the Republican Party is trying to feed this country especially now.

If people would just open their eyes and stop listening to the talking heads or certain aspects of the media for that matter and begin to look back at history and learn...just learn...for themselves where this country once was before all the white noise got so loud, so distorted and politicians stopped working for US and began to lookout for themselves AND their lobbyist/Corporate friends and how so many social-economic issues that affect so many of us on a daily basis have been so widely ignored for so long, they'd be angry, outraged! But more important, they'd wake the hell up and realize not everything they hear is exactly as they've been told.

It's not that I didn't know about some of the things that have occurred on the political scene over the years. I mean, who doesn't know about Iran-Contra, the fall of the Berlin wall, Desert Storm, Monica Lewinski, Al Quaida, WMD and many of the other so-called "political issues" that have affected this country over the last 25 years or so. But how many of us know the intimate details behind the storylines, i.e., how the banking industry was absolved of their government oversight obligation because someone in government decided it was a smart move to deregulate this industry and remove the very checks and balances that were implimented in the wake of the Great Depression for the sole purpose of preventing the economic collapse our nation currently find ourselves in today? Rules that were put in place that were designed to prevent the very "creative financing schemes" concocted on Wall Street and the extreme risk within our banking system taken at the expense of the taxpaying consumer who is now taking it on the chin day, after day, after day, finding it extremely difficult to put food on the table while certain politicians stand back and instead of standing on the sidelines laying blame against the party that said, "Yes, We Can," while also consistently saying, "NO, We're Not!!! going to do a damned thing to help pull this country out of the gutter but instead will let it go still further into the toilet until our side can regains power to once again do whatever the hell we want"... Is that the government this country truly wants...again? They may claim they're for "what's right for America," but what political faction has the gull to be so two-faced on nearly every issue over the last 18 months secretly compromising on some issue while publically claiming their ideas have been rejected while also voting "NO" just so the public can "see" that they're upholding their political idealogical values all in the name of democracy and upholding the Constitution, the very document their party has subverted far more than the Democrat party over the last 40 years!? Can you say "military and judicial power grab via executive orders and signing statements?"

The linked article in the OP speaks of the exact issues I've discussed with my friends, neighbors, family and coworkers since before the 2008 Presidential primaries began. Tax cuts, for example, may stimulate the economy but they don't pay for themselves - never have and never will - and they should never be allowed to remain in place for so long across the economic spectrum particularly when one side of the tax bracket receives a much larger break than another for as long as they've been allowed and used as a replacement for the overall tax base. Those who believe in this form of "taxation" would have one believe that as long as people are working the government will generate revenue. While this may be true to an extent, the problem is that the so-called revenue is being spent faster than it can be generated. And while Republican are saying "the deficit is out of control," which one of them is willing to cut any portion of the social or government programs they claim are increasing the national debt at such historic levels?

One example of just such an absordity is Medicare. We've been told Medicare takes up nearly 1/3 of the national budget, but when some in government have tried to modify the health care system in such a way they believe will address the health care and health insurance issues that have negatively affected Americans across the economic divide to bring down the cost not only of Medicare but health care in general, those in opposition balk at making any positive changes that can reduce the cost in meaningful ways. Does this make sense to you? To leave a health care system in place that's costing the country millions, if not billions, for so few? You could make the same argument for many other social programs, i.e., Medicaid, Welfare, Pell Grants, etc., but until you're willing to tackle the problem head-on instead of looking out for your own political career as well as your position of power while retaining that lobbyist in your hip pocket, nothing meaningful ever gets changed!!! Still, I would much rather elect someone to political office who is willing to tackle the problems in this country - problems that have been ignored for years and years and years, problems I took stock of in my youth that have only increased in severity as I've neared middle-age - than to place someone in power whose party affiliation has done nothing more than give lip-service to the issues and will grab power in the same subversive ways the moment they get back in the White House.

I'm sorry, Republicans. There's just no way any one of you would get my vote at a time our nation's is hemmiraging on so many levela while listening to you spin the problems injecting fear at every turn instead of working with the party that legitimately gained control of Congress and the White House and are trying to do something to turn things around. We didn't get in this mess overnight. It took years for our economy to get this way. It's going to take years to turn things around. But at this moment in our nation's history, I cannot in good faith vote a Republican into office. I just don't think they have a plan to restore this country to greatness. But they'll definitely look out for their own selve interests again if given the chance to take back Congress and the White House.
Objective Voice, you are a man who should be running for public office, if you can bring yourself to wallow in the mud with the political pigs long enough to get elected....
 

Harshaw

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Dude, isn't that exactly what this article is about? It ain't just liberals saying it.
Yeah, and Stockman was one of the biggest conservative villains ever, according to the left. Until he started saying things they wanted to hear. (Not that those on the right don't love the opposite; of course they do.)

Too, a number of the things he cites as problems are things the left are generally for.


I hope not, but I fear so.
It will be so.
 
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Conservative

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It's difficult for me to read the article in the OP and not be angry at the condition this country finds itself in today from the political party that's screaming such things as "unconstitutional, tyranny, nationalization, redistribution of wealth and liberty" while also smiling in the face of average Americans telling them not to trust in the party led by a man who has shown the courage to tackle the issues the opposition has completely and utterly ignored for well over 25 years!! Think about that for a moment...

I've been interested in politics since my high school years. Reagan was President when I graduated. Thus, the politics and long-term affects of Reaganomics didn't register to me back then. But over the years and little by little, I've become a student of politics especially within the last three years, and the more I learn of the power grab and of how disporportioned the economic imbalance has become between "the haves and the have nots" in this country, the louder I scream at the top of my lungs "don't believe the hype" the Republican Party is trying to feed this country especially now.

If people would just open their eyes and stop listening to the talking heads or certain aspects of the media for that matter and begin to look back at history and learn...just learn...for themselves where this country once was before all the white noise got so loud, so distorted and politicians stopped working for US and began to lookout for themselves AND their lobbyist/Corporate friends and how so many social-economic issues that affect so many of us on a daily basis have been so widely ignored for so long, they'd be angry, outraged! But more important, they'd wake the hell up and realize not everything they hear is exactly as they've been told.

It's not that I didn't know about some of the things that have occurred on the political scene over the years. I mean, who doesn't know about Iran-Contra, the fall of the Berlin wall, Desert Storm, Monica Lewinski, Al Quaida, WMD and many of the other so-called "political issues" that have affected this country over the last 25 years or so. But how many of us know the intimate details behind the storylines, i.e., how the banking industry was absolved of their government oversight obligation because someone in government decided it was a smart move to deregulate this industry and remove the very checks and balances that were implimented in the wake of the Great Depression for the sole purpose of preventing the economic collapse our nation currently find ourselves in today? Rules that were put in place that were designed to prevent the very "creative financing schemes" concocted on Wall Street and the extreme risk within our banking system taken at the expense of the taxpaying consumer who is now taking it on the chin day, after day, after day, finding it extremely difficult to put food on the table while certain politicians stand back and instead of standing on the sidelines laying blame against the party that said, "Yes, We Can," while also consistently saying, "NO, We're Not!!! going to do a damned thing to help pull this country out of the gutter but instead will let it go still further into the toilet until our side can regains power to once again do whatever the hell we want"... Is that the government this country truly wants...again? They may claim they're for "what's right for America," but what political faction has the gull to be so two-faced on nearly every issue over the last 18 months secretly compromising on some issue while publically claiming their ideas have been rejected while also voting "NO" just so the public can "see" that they're upholding their political idealogical values all in the name of democracy and upholding the Constitution, the very document their party has subverted far more than the Democrat party over the last 40 years!? Can you say "military and judicial power grab via executive orders and signing statements?"

The linked article in the OP speaks of the exact issues I've discussed with my friends, neighbors, family and coworkers since before the 2008 Presidential primaries began. Tax cuts, for example, may stimulate the economy but they don't pay for themselves - never have and never will - and they should never be allowed to remain in place for so long across the economic spectrum particularly when one side of the tax bracket receives a much larger break than another for as long as they've been allowed and used as a replacement for the overall tax base. Those who believe in this form of "taxation" would have one believe that as long as people are working the government will generate revenue. While this may be true to an extent, the problem is that the so-called revenue is being spent faster than it can be generated. And while Republican are saying "the deficit is out of control," which one of them is willing to cut any portion of the social or government programs they claim are increasing the national debt at such historic levels?

One example of just such an absordity is Medicare. We've been told Medicare takes up nearly 1/3 of the national budget, but when some in government have tried to modify the health care system in such a way they believe will address the health care and health insurance issues that have negatively affected Americans across the economic divide to bring down the cost not only of Medicare but health care in general, those in opposition balk at making any positive changes that can reduce the cost in meaningful ways. Does this make sense to you? To leave a health care system in place that's costing the country millions, if not billions, for so few? You could make the same argument for many other social programs, i.e., Medicaid, Welfare, Pell Grants, etc., but until you're willing to tackle the problem head-on instead of looking out for your own political career as well as your position of power while retaining that lobbyist in your hip pocket, nothing meaningful ever gets changed!!! Still, I would much rather elect someone to political office who is willing to tackle the problems in this country - problems that have been ignored for years and years and years, problems I took stock of in my youth that have only increased in severity as I've neared middle-age - than to place someone in power whose party affiliation has done nothing more than give lip-service to the issues and will grab power in the same subversive ways the moment they get back in the White House.

I'm sorry, Republicans. There's just no way any one of you would get my vote at a time our nation's is hemmiraging on so many levela while listening to you spin the problems injecting fear at every turn instead of working with the party that legitimately gained control of Congress and the White House and are trying to do something to turn things around. We didn't get in this mess overnight. It took years for our economy to get this way. It's going to take years to turn things around. But at this moment in our nation's history, I cannot in good faith vote a Republican into office. I just don't think they have a plan to restore this country to greatness. But they'll definitely look out for their own selve interests again if given the chance to take back Congress and the White House.
OV, there is much in this post that I agree with but you ruined it at the end when you imply that anyone should be working with this Administration to implement the agenda it is actually implementing with only leftwing support. There are indeed problems in this country and quite frankly I would kick all the bums out of D.C. and start over. There is nothing in the President's economic policy that I believe in and IMO the party of "NO" should be the party of "Hell NO!"

I make no bones about being a Conservative. I used to be a Conservative Democrat until the Democrat Party left me. I supported Reagan and still do today. Reagan understood the American people and his economic policy of 10-10-5 tax cuts drove liberals crazy because it put money back into the hands of the taxpayer(American people) and liberals seem to hate that.

I recognize that the Reagan Administration wasn't perfect and had its problems but one of those problems was NOT implementation of his income tax policy. Reagan presents a stark contrast to Obama. Reagan took office with rising unemployment, high inflation, high mortgage rates, and a Democrat Congress. He had to fight that Democrat Congress for his tax cuts and took his message right to the American people. It was the American people that put pressure on the Congress to pass his tax cuts and the results are something liberals want to ignore, doubling of income tax revenue, doubling of GDP, 18 million jobs created. Unfortunately what liberals want to point to is the 1.7 trillion debt that was created during the Reagan years totally ignoring why that debt occurred.

Now I don't want to rehash the Reagan/Obama debate because that is ongoing on another thread but I do want to point out the total arrogance of Obama compared to the approach Reagan took. Why anyone would want Obama to succeed with his economic policy is beyond me. Obama's massive growth in the size of govt. where taxpayers have to pay their salaries and benefits, is beyond me.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0605-35.pdf

His massive growth in debt is setting deficit records and his lack of focus on the private sector is quite telling. In two years Obama has added 3 trillion to the debt, shown a reduction of 4 million in employment, and an increase in 3 million unemployed since his stimulus plan was passed. None of this was supported by the Republicans and rightly so. why does anyone support that record and agenda that created those numbers.

As stated I am a conservative, not a Republican, and believe that Republicans spent too much when in power. Fact is however Democrats took total control of Congress in January 2007 and put GOP spending on steroids, blame Republicans for it, and get away with that rhetoric. Whether or not there will be a lot of difference when the Republicans get back in power this fall is unknown but what is known is that the current Obama economic plan is unsustainable and going against the will of the people.
 

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I suppose the poor sap will soon be labeled a disgruntled former staffer who really wasn't of much importance. The GOP is good at throwing party dissidents under the bus.
If you read Stockman's piece, you'll see that the Republicans have no incentive to do that. The link in the OP is merely an interpretation of Stockman's piece. Stockman criticized the Republicans for becoming too similar to the Democrats and not sticking with their conservative principles.
 

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Dude, you're recycling a line that was old before you were born.
There is at least 2 or 3 Republicans on here that seem to have their head on straight. My grandfather was a republican in South Carolina, incredibly conservative man that ran for state senate twice before. The guy would go quail hunting out with Strom Thrumond and talk him out of some positions that a lot of people are starting to have now because they made no sense. He championed things like science and education, was completely for having a strong military but even during the first gulf war thought it was either al in or nothing at all and well, Bush Sr. did neither.

My grandfather was for fiscal responsbility but not at the disadvantage of the disadvantaged. He would come from the tax office, or from farming everyday, sit at the bar in the kitchen, and turn on his little TV and for hours watch nothing but CNN, MSNBC, and Fox news back and forth. He got a car phone for his truck when I was younger JUST so he could call in to political radio shows and tell them what they are saying and doing wrong on the radio, and of course he listened to nothing but Rush Limbaugh and other conservative radio. They knew it was him before he even said who it was. This was a man that was all about maintaining how the party should be not about what it had become.

I often wonder what my grandfather would say or do if he saw the way Republicans were today if he hadn't passed away. Up until about the time I was 21 I identified myself as a Republican, but their rhetoric has trumped actual ideas in the past few years, and I can't align myself with something that is more about tearing down everything around them than actual helping their fellow man.
 

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There is at least 2 or 3 Republicans on here that seem to have their head on straight. My grandfather was a republican in South Carolina, incredibly conservative man that ran for state senate twice before. The guy would go quail hunting out with Strom Thrumond and talk him out of some positions that a lot of people are starting to have now because they made no sense. He championed things like science and education, was completely for having a strong military but even during the first gulf war thought it was either al in or nothing at all and well, Bush Sr. did neither.

My grandfather was for fiscal responsbility but not at the disadvantage of the disadvantaged. He would come from the tax office, or from farming everyday, sit at the bar in the kitchen, and turn on his little TV and for hours watch nothing but CNN, MSNBC, and Fox news back and forth. He got a car phone for his truck when I was younger JUST so he could call in to political radio shows and tell them what they are saying and doing wrong on the radio, and of course he listened to nothing but Rush Limbaugh and other conservative radio. They knew it was him before he even said who it was. This was a man that was all about maintaining how the party should be not about what it had become.

I often wonder what my grandfather would say or do if he saw the way Republicans were today if he hadn't passed away. Up until about the time I was 21 I identified myself as a Republican, but their rhetoric has trumped actual ideas in the past few years, and I can't align myself with something that is more about tearing down everything around them than actual helping their fellow man.
So who do you align yourself with and why? Your grandfather sounded like a very good man. It really is a problem when you are given the choices we have been given over the past couple decades. Clinton vs. GHW Bush, Clinton vs. Dole, Bush vs. Gore, Bush vs. Kerry, McCain vs. Obama? Frustrating choices so left with those choices and not having that perfect candidate, I voted for the party closest to my point of view and in all cases it was the Republican Party although the candidates weren't my choice. They just beat the alternative
 

danarhea

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He lost me right here.



What was the debt when Dems took over Congress? $8,506,973,899,215.23 So in 4 years the Dems doubled the national debt, yet this ass blames the Republicans? :lamo
I blame them both. Period.

/thread
 
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It will be so.
I guess you're right, but do you have to sound so damned proud about the Republicans abdicating their role as the fiscally conservative party? To paraphrase George Carlin, if you set out to fail and you succeed, what exactly do you think you've accomplished?
 

Harshaw

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I guess you're right, but do you have to sound so damned proud about the Republicans abdicating their role as the fiscally conservative party?
:roll: Where do you get that idea?
 
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