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Re: The Arizona Law

4776

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Re: The Arizona Law

When we are pulled over by the police they ask for your driver's and registration. Then they back to their car. After a while they come back.

What they are doing is getting on the computer where they find out ALL about you. If there is something bad out there or some legal issue they take you away.

If I were a "Hispanic" or ANY other "minority" is doing so be "profiling" or "racist"?

Should the DOJ be suing?

What's the difference?
 

jamesrage

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Re: The Arizona Law

The DOJ is not suing because of racial profiling. Even before SB 1070 was amended it still did not allow racial profiling. Which is why they are suing over the supremacy clause, because they know the claims of racial profiling are a load of crap spewed by pro-illegals and those retarded enough to believe their lies. Most likely they are going to have to con an American of Hispanic decent that speaks spanish to not speak english while not cooperating with police so that he gets held until his legal status is proven, then they will try to sue and even then it will be proven that the individual was intentionally not cooperating with the police and the case will be thrown out/
 

Travelsonic

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Re: The Arizona Law

When we are pulled over by the police they ask for your driver's and registration. Then they back to their car. After a while they come back.
Primarily, of course, to see that you are operating said car legally ["Driver's License" /duh] and as you mentioned to do other legal things that need to be done.

Though I think "If I were a "Hispanic" or ANY other "minority" is doing so be "profiling" or "racist"?" misconstrews the arguments being made.

I think the argument is that because the bill uses "reasonable suspicion" and "legal contact," instead of the far more stingy "probable cause" and "legal detainment" as criteria, the cops are going to be given far more leway in their decision making, which in return could render the verbiage about not being allowed to racially profile moot.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the reasoning, but that is what I understand it as.
 

4776

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Re: The Arizona Law

When we are pulled over by the police they ask for your driver's and registration. Then they back to their car. After a while they come back.

What they are doing is getting on the computer where they find out ALL about you. If there is something bad out there or some legal issue they take you away.
:3oops:Sorry, I was unclear. What I was asking is doing the above a Federally unlawful procedure. I certainly don't think so. Then why is it wrong to do it in AZ? It appears they are simply codifying what is now a Police Manual procedure.

Just as an aside I included the "racist/profiling issue. I shouldn't have as it clouded the issue at hand. :3oops:
 

4776

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Re: The Arizona Law

Let me try to clarify further. I'd think a person who was not a legal resident would either not have a drivers license or have a phony one. In either case that would get you taken away where I come from. I'd think that would be the trigger in AZ or anywhere else.

The same applies if you are detained for commission of a minor (disturbing the peace) or a major (robbery) crime. The first thing they ask for is ID and as above a person not a legal resident would set off an alarm.

So what's the problem - we're doing the above NOW.
 

mike2810

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Re: The Arizona Law

The revised AZ law replaces “lawful contact” with “lawful stop, detention or arrest,” clarifying police may not stop people without cause.

IMO, the law is pretty clear and is not profiling (racial)
 

ReverendHellh0und

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Re: The Arizona Law

This law enforces federal statutes that the fedgov won't enforce. meanwhile sanctuary cities such as san fran get a pass....
 

majora$$hole

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Re: The Arizona Law

i say don't go after the people, they are just doing what they need to to survive. i say go after the businesses breaking the law by hiring these people by pulling their license to opperate. then these people will not have a reason to come here. no racial profiling there. by continuing doing what we've been doing is'nt going to work we need to after the businesses that is the answer. imo.
 

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Re: The Arizona Law

i say don't go after the people, they are just doing what they need to to survive. i say go after the businesses breaking the law by hiring these people by pulling their license to opperate. then these people will not have a reason to come here. no racial profiling there. by continuing doing what we've been doing is'nt going to work we need to after the businesses that is the answer. imo.
Continue to go after businesses to discourage unwanted illegals from breaking in, but you've got to go after the 20 plus million illegal aliens already here to get rid of them because of the undesirable baggage they bring. Anyone advocating not going after the illegals already here either has illegal relatives here or somehow profits from illegals being here. Such people have zero credibility.
 

majora$$hole

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Re: The Arizona Law

Continue to go after businesses to discourage unwanted illegals from breaking in, but you've got to go after the 20 plus million illegal aliens already here to get rid of them because of the undesirable baggage they bring. Anyone advocating not going after the illegals already here either has illegal relatives here or somehow profits from illegals being here. Such people have zero credibility.
no sir i'm just a lowly janitor doing a job those "lazy americans" are not willing to do. by the way i was born and raised right here in the usa as were my parents. i would argue that you sir are in some way profiting from the way the illegal immagrant problem is being handled now if you think we've been doing a good job so far. can't say anything about your credibility don't know you.
 

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Re: The Arizona Law

When we are pulled over by the police they ask for your driver's and registration. Then they back to their car. After a while they come back.

What they are doing is getting on the computer where they find out ALL about you. If there is something bad out there or some legal issue they take you away.

If I were a "Hispanic" or ANY other "minority" is doing so be "profiling" or "racist"?

Should the DOJ be suing?
I think the OP has brought up an excellent point. Coppers automatically run Wants & Warrants. What's the difference? IMO, the DOJ should be ashamed to have filed suit. This is allll about Obama's plan for amnesty.
 

Rogue

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Re: The Arizona Law

no sir i'm just a lowly janitor doing a job those "lazy americans" are not willing to do. by the way i was born and raised right here in the usa as were my parents. i would argue that you sir are in some way profiting from the way the illegal immagrant problem is being handled now if you think we've been doing a good job so far. can't say anything about your credibility don't know you.
A job as a "lowly" janitor is pretty susceptible to being replaced by an illegal willing to work cheaper than you can. When that happens, and I suspect that it will because of people like you, maybe that would make you change your tune? Oh you thought that I thought that we were doing a good job handling unwanted uninvited illegal border jumpers so far?
 

majora$$hole

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Re: The Arizona Law

A job as a "lowly" janitor is pretty susceptible to being replaced by an illegal willing to work cheaper than you can. When that happens, and I suspect that it will because of people like you, maybe that would make you change your tune? Oh you thought that I thought that we were doing a good job handling unwanted uninvited illegal border jumpers so far?
that is pretty much the situation in this country these people are driving down the wages of people honestly making a living (is that you?). can you explain how "people like me" (what am i again?) made this happen? so you don't think we are doing a good job with illegal immigration? didn't seem like it in your previous post, so why do you want it to continue the way it is?
 

jamesrage

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Re: The Arizona Law

i say don't go after the people, they are just doing what they need to to survive. i say go after the businesses breaking the law by hiring these people by pulling their license to opperate. then these people will not have a reason to come here.
It takes two to tango,those who come here illegals are just as guilty as those who employ,house or aid them. So no slack should be given to those who are caught.

Now those who employ,housing or aid illegals in anyway are worse than the illegals since they are basically betraying this country by bribing 12-20 plus million people to come here illegally and therefore should suffer more prison time, loss of assets and property and have huge fines.
 
Y

YourFriendJude

Re: The Arizona Law

I just don't understand how anyone can oppose what AZ is doing. They are following law already in place by the Fed tat the Fed is just too wishy-washy to employ themselves. The last time the federal government tried to sue a state, it resulted in the Civil War. And unfortunately our current admin cannot handle that... What is interesting is that all a police officer can do under this law is turn the illegal immigrant in question over to INS. And we all know they wont do anything about it. The crime rates in AZ are through the roof and these people committing the crimes cannot be traced or caught because they have no citizenship and are off the radar. Our federal government cares more about offending some people who completely disrespected our laws than it does about the safety of it's own people. It's pretty sad and kind of scary...
 

majora$$hole

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Re: The Arizona Law

It takes two to tango,those who come here illegals are just as guilty as those who employ,house or aid them. So no slack should be given to those who are caught.

Now those who employ,housing or aid illegals in anyway are worse than the illegals since they are basically betraying this country by bribing 12-20 plus million people to come here illegally and therefore should suffer more prison time, loss of assets and property and have huge fines.
you are right these people are breaking the law to and i do not condone that but i ask you jamesrage if your child looked at you and said "daddy i'm hungry". would you break the law to feed her? the bussinesses on the other hand are only after the dollar.
 

jamesrage

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Re: The Arizona Law

you are right these people are breaking the law to and i do not condone that but i ask you jamesrage if your child looked at you and said "daddy i'm hungry". would you break the law to feed her?
I would go to a relative, church, a salvation army, soup kitchen, John 3:16 mission, sell plasma for money, work for a Labor Ready(A temp service that pays you the same day you work), hunt and fish for food, a last resort would be to stand on the corner and beg for money.


the bussinesses on the other hand are only after the dollar.
I understand why they do it. However both parties involved still have to be discouraged by being punished when caught. Just deporting an illegal is not a punishment, it is just free public transportation home.Illegals are less likely to be deterred if they are not punished for law breaking. Many criminals are only after the dollar. We do not excuse the behavior of a burglar,drug dealer, car thief, or anyone else who commits a crime for money just because they wanted money.
 

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Re: The Arizona Law

you are right these people are breaking the law to and i do not condone that but i ask you jamesrage if your child looked at you and said "daddy i'm hungry". would you break the law to feed her? the bussinesses on the other hand are only after the dollar.
So basically what are you? A lowly janitor just waiting to be replaced by an illegal alien willing to work cheaper than you? I suspect that you are just another amnesty peddler in disguise trying to get some sympathy for unwanted uninvited illegal border jumpers, or probably some illegal relative.
 

majora$$hole

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Re: The Arizona Law

I would go to a relative, church, a salvation army, soup kitchen, John 3:16 mission, sell plasma for money, work for a Labor Ready(A temp service that pays you the same day you work), hunt and fish for food, a last resort would be to stand on the corner and beg for money.




I understand why they do it. However both parties involved still have to be discouraged by being punished when caught. Just deporting an illegal is not a punishment, it is just free public transportation home.Illegals are less likely to be deterred if they are not punished for law breaking. Many criminals are only after the dollar. We do not excuse the behavior of a burglar,drug dealer, car thief, or anyone else who commits a crime for money just because they wanted money.
you gave plenty of examples of things that YOU could do to survive but refrained from answering the question so i will post it again. would YOU break the law so that YOUR child would not starve to death? yes the people do it for the money to survive, but businesses don't they do it to make record profits. i'm not advocating these people break the law and not see some form of punishment i'm just trying to make sure we don't loose sight of their point of view.
 

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Re: The Arizona Law

you gave plenty of examples of things that YOU could do to survive but refrained from answering the question so i will post it again. would YOU break the law so that YOUR child would not starve to death? yes the people do it for the money to survive, but businesses don't they do it to make record profits. i'm not advocating these people break the law and not see some form of punishment i'm just trying to make sure we don't loose sight of their point of view.


I'd put a bullet in your head if it meant the difference between my child starving or not. :thumbs:


That's an easy one.


that said, I don't know of a starvation condition in the border area of Mexico, do you?
 

majora$$hole

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Re: The Arizona Law

I'd put a bullet in your head if it meant the difference between my child starving or not. :thumbs:


That's an easy one.


that said, I don't know of a starvation condition in the border area of Mexico, do you?
wow sir, i'm pretty sure that before these people decided to break the law they had a REAL need to do so, like you would apparently have to put a bullet in my head then.
and i'm absolutely sure YOU don't know much, considering that personal attack.
 

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Re: The Arizona Law

wow sir, i'm pretty sure that before these people decided to break the law they had a REAL need to do so, like you would apparently have to put a bullet in my head then.
and i'm absolutely sure YOU don't know much, considering that personal attack.


Uhm, it wasn't a personal attack, I was answering your question. I would expect you to do the same to me if I was the one preventing you and yours from life maintaining sustenance. :shrug:



They come here for a better life, not because they are starving and dying.
 

majora$$hole

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Re: The Arizona Law

Uhm, it wasn't a personal attack, I was answering your question. I would expect you to do the same to me if I was the one preventing you and yours from life maintaining sustenance. :shrug:



They come here for a better life, not because they are starving and dying.
correct you are sir but that "better life" includes many things.
 

jamesrage

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Re: The Arizona Law

you gave plenty of examples of things that YOU could do to survive but refrained from answering the question so i will post it again. would YOU break the law so that YOUR child would not starve to death?
No. I wouldn't need to.Which is why I gave plenty examples of things I could do to feed my child.
 
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