Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

[calamity]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Let's be real here. Trump nailed it. People who died in wars that had nothing to do with defending America were suckers.

I say we embrace that truth. It's rare when the man speaks it.

Edit: the first word should have been "are." I was going to write a slightly different sentence "did those who died in most American wars die in vain," but then I decided to use Trump's exact words and forgot to edit.

 

[Overitall]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Let's be real here. Trump nailed it. People who died in wars that had nothing to do with defending America were suckers.

I say we embrace that truth. It's rare when the man speaks it.

You’re brave. :shock:

 

[Rexedgar]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Now I dare the OP to stick his tongue on the third subway rail.......

 

[swing_voter]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Even just wars like WWII?

There are some things worth giving your live for.



Trump and people like him are too cynical. Too "self centered."

 

[calamity]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

You’re brave. :shock:

It's a thought that occurred as soon as he said it. TBH, I was raised to sort of buy into that idea. "Son, don't join the army. You'll only end up dying for **** you don't believe in."

 

[calamity]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Even just wars like WWII?

There are some things worth giving your live for.



Trump and people like him are too cynical. Too "self centered."

I see three wars that are fully justified and non-debatable: Revolution, Civil and the War of 1812, when the Brits attacked us. The rest is much more gray.

WW1: None of our business.

WW2: This one might have been a no-choice situation. For sure Germany would have won without US involvement, and we were attacked by Japan. But, in the end, what did we gain? We crushed an evil regime but quickly ended up in a 50 year cold war with our ally at the time: the USSR.

The next batch of wars were all fought to stop the spread of communism. A noble effort, I am sure. But, is dying in Asia really something worthwhile for Fred from Topeka?

 

[swing_voter]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

I see three wars that are fully justified and non-debatable: Revolution, Civil and the War of 1812, when the Brits attacked us. The rest is much more gray.

WW1: None of our business.

WW2: This one might have been a no-choice situation. For sure Germany would have won without US involvement, and we were attacked by Japan. But, in the end, what did we gain? We crushed an evil regime but quickly ended up in a 50 year cold war with our ally at the time: the USSR.

The next batch of wars were all fought to stop the spread of communism. A noble effort, I am sure. But, is dying in Asia really something worthwhile for Fred from Topeka?

We won the Cold war.

They're all gone and we're still here.

 

[calamity]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

We won the Cold war.

They're all gone and we're still here.

Not really. A KGB operative is the most powerful man in the world today. IMO, anyone dying to combat communism died in vain.

 

[swing_voter]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Not really. A KGB operative is the most powerful man in the world today. IMO, anyone dying to combat communism died in vain.

What's Putin done? How is he powerful?



The Russian GDP is below Brazil's GDP.


Russia has no allies. America has dozens of allies.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

It's a thought that occurred as soon as he said it. TBH, I was raised to sort of buy into that idea. "Son, don't join the army. You'll only end up dying for **** you don't believe in."

Soldiers don't get to pick and choose their wars.

 

[WillyPete]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Let's be real here. Trump nailed it. People who died in wars that had nothing to do with defending America were suckers.

I say we embrace that truth. It's rare when the man speaks it.

Edit: the first word should have been "are." I was going to write a slightly different sentence "did those who died in most American wars die in vain," but then I decided to use Trump's exact words and forgot to edit.

If you consider leveraging patriotism for marketing a scam, sure. But if truth in advertising was a law, we won't have much to say to each other.

Military service has value because we say so. Because we choose to treat those who have served as special, because they have voluntarily served the nation, even though it's not fun or easy.

Most of us, anyway.

People keep score in different ways. If you judge your life's value in money, then the military doesn't make a lot of sense as a career, as there aren't a lot of paths to great wealth (though there are some, ask Ollie North.)

 

[Overitall]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

It's a thought that occurred as soon as he said it. TBH, I was raised to sort of buy into that idea. "Son, don't join the army. You'll only end up dying for **** you don't believe in."

Hasn’t been proven that he said it. :2razz: That aside, yeah I’ve heard others echo your citation. I lean towards Isolationism but that’s difficult to hold to in these turbulent times when some of the crazies are getting access to WofMD and the distances separating us are meaningless. Those who choose to serve do so for a variety of reasons, some admirable, and so I’m not willing to paint them with a broad brush.

 

[calamity]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Soldiers don't get to pick and choose their wars.

I think that was my dad's point.

 

[Helix]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

they were far braver than i'll ever be. Tweety is scum walking around in a human suit.

i will say that far too often, brave people with noble intentions get killed because politicians don't know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and how it will benefit them personally rather than the country. that doesn't make them suckers. it makes the politicians who mismanaged their valor idiots and scumbags, though.

 

[calamity]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Hasn’t been proven that he said it. :2razz: That aside, yeah I’ve heard others echo your citation. I lean towards Isolationism but that’s difficult to hold to in these turbulent times when some of the crazies are getting access to WofMD and the distances separating us are meaningless. Those who choose to serve do so for a variety of reasons, some admirable, and so I’m not willing to paint them with a broad brush.

It's a cynical worldview to be sure: poor people dying to protect the interests of the rich. But, there is gray there. Lots of it.

Someone said once--maybe it was me -- US troops do not defend Americans; they defend American interests.

Well, in a sense, that is defending Americans. Of course, when the defending leads to nothing more than sticking a McDonalds on every corner and living in a nation full of obese people who now suffer from diabetes in record numbers, one does have to wonder if it was worth it.

 

[calamity]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

they were far braver than i'll ever be. Tweety is scum walking around in a human suit.

i will say that far too often, brave people with noble intentions get killed because politicians don't know what they are doing or know exactly what they are doing and how it will benefit them personally rather than the country. that doesn't make them suckers. it makes the politicians who mismanaged their valor idiots and scumbags, though.

My wife brought up a good point. Except for the Trumps of the world, almost every American has a close relative who fought in WW2. I added that some of us even have relatives who fought on both sides, not uncommon in a nation full of immigrants.

Point is. I'd say almost every person on earth has a connection to the dead and wounded in WW2. That Trump does not is kind of bizarre.

 

[Overitall]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

It's a cynical worldview to be sure: poor people dying to protect the interests of the rich. But, there is gray there. Lots of it.

Someone said once--maybe it was me -- US troops do not defend Americans; they defend American interests.

Well, in a sense, that is defending Americans. Of course, when the defending leads to nothing more than sticking a McDonalds on every corner and living in a nation full of obese people who now suffer from diabetes in record numbers, one does have to wonder if it was worth it.

Very thought provoking post. You’re surprising me and that’s scary.

 

[Tbird19482]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

If you consider leveraging patriotism for marketing a scam, sure. But if truth in advertising was a law, we won't have much to say to each other.

Military service has value because we say so. Because we choose to treat those who have served as special, because they have voluntarily served the nation, even though it's not fun or easy.

Most of us, anyway.

People keep score in different ways. If you judge your life's value in money, then the military doesn't make a lot of sense as a career, as there aren't a lot of paths to great wealth (though there are some, ask Ollie North.)

Just to remind you and others on here a LOT of people did NOT volunteer to go in the service they were drafted and had very little choice in the matter
Yes they could have gone to Canada or if their family had the money like Trump did they could have come up with a case of flat feet or heal spears
but most of them did their time in the service and deserve respect for that
Have a nice day

 

[Helix]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

My wife brought up a good point. Except for the Trumps of the world, almost every American has a close relative who fought in WW2. I added that some of us even have relatives who fought on both sides, not uncommon in a nation full of immigrants.

Point is. I'd say almost every person on earth has a connection to the dead and wounded in WW2. That Trump does not is kind of bizarre.

As for anecdotal evidence of your theory, my grandfather's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Whether Trump has a relative who was in WWII or not, I haven't researched that.

 

[Overitall]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

As for anecdotal evidence of your theory, my grandfather's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Whether Trump has a relative who was in WWII or not, I haven't researched that.

None have. But the lack of military service among presidents isn’t unusual.

Donald Trump Isn't the First President Who Didn't Serve in the Military

I haven’t researched it but I wonder how many on the list have said controversial remarks behind closed doors regarding those who have served. Most politicians are too smart to openly talk negatively about veterans. Seeing as how many on the left consider Trump stupid you would think there would be video evidence or tweets of him doing so. Are there?

 

[WillyPete]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

Just to remind you and others on here a LOT of people did NOT volunteer to go in the service they were drafted and had very little choice in the matter
Yes they could have gone to Canada or if their family had the money like Trump did they could have come up with a case of flat feet or heal spears
but most of them did their time in the service and deserve respect for that
Have a nice day

Excellent point.

My dad missed the draft for Vietnam but only barely. His number could easily have come up, and it was a great relief when it was over.

To think of how different his life would have been, and how different so many lives actually were, is brain breaking.

But he would have served if they'd called him up, and if anything that's a even bigger sacrifice, especially since it weighs most heavily on the lower classes.

I understand folks who ran. The draft was abused for Vietnam.

Consider all the affluent kids who bent the rules to either avoid service or to place rich kids in champagne units.

There's your proof that military service has value. It's worthwhile for rich folk to manipulate the military to allow some connected kids to "serve," while placing themselves in no danger of combat.

 

[Helix]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

None have. But the lack of military service among presidents isn’t unusual.

Donald Trump Isn't the First President Who Didn't Serve in the Military

I haven’t researched it but I wonder how many on the list have said controversial remarks behind closed doors regarding those who have served. Most politicians are too smart to openly talk negatively about veterans. Seeing as how many on the left consider Trump stupid you would think there would be video evidence or tweets of him doing so. Are there?

it's pretty much like what he said about John McCain, so i'm more likely to believe that he said it than not. also, he has denied it, and almost everything he says is a lie, so that's also evidence. is there a recording? who knows? if there is, it would be a Secret Service feed, and the public doesn't have access to those.

 

[upsideguy]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

What's Putin done? How is he powerful?



The Russian GDP is below Brazil's GDP.


Russia has no allies. America has dozens of allies.

Kind of a pre-2017 world view, don't you think?

 

[Overitall]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

it's pretty much like what he said about John McCain, so i'm more likely to believe that he said it than not. also, he has denied it, and almost everything he says is a lie, so that's also evidence. is there a recording? who knows? if there is, it would be a Secret Service feed, and the public doesn't have access to those.

I was thinking of the Watergate tapes. My memory of that has faded but wasn’t Nixon forced by the courts to release them? It might take time but eventually the truth will come out if he said anything negative about soldiers. As far as the comment to McCain I viewed it as referring to his presidential bid loss.

 

[Rexedgar]

Re: Suckers; Was Trump Correct?

I think that was my dad's point.

Mine told me, “don’t join something that you can’t quit.”