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Raw Video footage from the Raid relased by one of the actives

RyrineaHaruno

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More video fotage of Iserali raid on the folitla

Raw video footage from one of the the actives on Israels raid on a humanitarian aid ship has been released, and the full version will be given out in a press release.

 

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Re: More video fotage of Iserali raid on the folitla

Was already posted in another thread.
Besides the fact that it's horribly edited for a one-sided view, the video itself does not act to promote any of the activist's claims.
It does not reveal any information that wasn't already known.
I think we've already got the full picture of what has happened on board of the Mavi Marmara.
 

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This was released by one of the actives from the raid on the Mavi Marmara.
 

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I saw one new thing (~3:40). I didn't know before that the "activists" had attacked the helicopter.


One question... Why would they bring the soldiers downstairs? Surely they could be extracted to better medical facilities by the IDF. They are endangering the soldier's lives by preventing extraction. It could also look (to the IDF) like they are being kidnapped for nefarious purpose.
 
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RyrineaHaruno

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I saw one new thing (~3:40). I didn't know before that the "activists" had attacked the helicopter.

You didn't well it been all over the news channles, and the fact that you could hear fireing after they said that they were civilans


Here is a the raw Footage that they had on their
 

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The fire you hear from the helicopter is obviously the sound of a grenade-type launcher (thump, not bang). If it is fired at the boat (and not just a flare), then it is surely tear gas to make the IDF's entry safer. It's standard procedure for a boarding of questionable safety and does not constitute 'firing upon the activists' by anyone's definition. It's a defensive procedure, if it wasn't flares fired in the air for vision.

I was referring to the 'activists' attacking the helicopter, not vice-versa. Of course, I had heard (and seen) that they attacked the soldiers upon entry... but I had not heard that the helicopter itself was attacked by the 'activists'.


Again, I am concerned with bringing the soldiers downstairs. It endangers their lives by preventing extraction and creates an image of kidnapping (for who knows what purpose). It's like they were baiting the still-operational soldiers: "come and save your men if you can". We simply cannot argue that removing the soldiers from the deck and preventing extraction was done in the soldier's best interest. That's a problem.

If instead of helping the soldier (as the previously released photo implied), they were kidnapping him and taking him downstairs (to his detriment and inciting further violence)... that's a disappointment.
 
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RyrineaHaruno

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I never saw the helicopter getting attacked part on this goes to watch again. Thought how would the activist know it was tear gas, since I would try to defend myself when its international waters ect. The live fire is not tear gas, or we wouldn't have nine dead in this mess.
 

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People on board attacked the helicopter with slingshots. A metal ball fired from a slingshot at close range could actually hurt the helicopter. This is clear as day ~3:35 mark in the video. They fire, take cover, and fire again multiple times. Really, I think it is astounding that anyone could have missed it; it would require a seriously biased pair of eyes to watch the video and not to notice.

The fire from the helicopter (at the same point in the video) is definately not a bullet-firearm. It's a grenade/flare launcher of some sort.

International waters does not give anyone the right to break a blockade. International waters does not equal "I do what I want"; to think so is staggeringly naive.



What do you have to say about kidnapping the soldiers? Are you going to claim that doing so was somehow to their (or the activists) benefit? It was not, anyone can reason this. One doesn't need to be a genius to realize that kidnapping the wounded soldiers and transporting them into the "activists" casualty center (or, as far as the IDF is concerned - who knows where or for what - ) is not going to make things better.
 
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RyrineaHaruno

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How can it hurt the helicopters, because I would love too here the spin about this? They didn't have any metal balls.
 
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ecofarm

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You don't see how a presumably metal projectile fired at considerable velocity and extremely close range could harm a helicopter?

Do you think they were firing plastic or rubber projectiles? What the hell kinda stupid crap is that?

Please. If it could not possibly harm it, why were they doing it?



What about the kidnapping? I'm still waiting for your take on that.
 
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RyrineaHaruno

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These metal objects fired at the helicopter I can't see how you know what they are throwing at the helicopter, because the news papers couldn't tell what they were firing at the helicopter. I for one couldn't tell what the hell they were throwing up at the helicopter, and yes International water do mater in this, and I am not sure on the kidnapping part yet, so I am undecided on that part.

 

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One question... Why would they bring the soldiers downstairs? Surely they could be extracted to better medical facilities by the IDF. They are endangering the soldier's lives by preventing extraction. It could also look (to the IDF) like they are being kidnapped for nefarious purpose.
The boat was not safe then. They had people of their own dying downstairs. Obviously given that their was gun shot going on upstairs it was safer for the soldier to take him down.
 

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These metal objects fired at the helicopter I can't see how you know what they are throwing at the helicopter, because the news papers couldn't tell what they were firing at the helicopter. I for one couldn't tell what the hell they were throwing up at the helicopter, and yes International water do mater in this, and I am not sure on the kidnapping part yet, so I am undecided on that part.
The video, like the Israeli one is not clear when it is filmed. However there is blood right at the beginning so it is suggesting their has already been serious injury.

They definitely looked to me like they were catapulting the helicopter and when I first looked I thought they had shot it down, though I see it retreated, possibly injured.

I think it is trying to show that guns were being aimed at them and they shot at the helicopter for that reason.

It isn't really any more conclusive than the Israeli one.
 

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These metal objects fired at the helicopter I can't see how you know what they are throwing at the helicopter, because the news papers couldn't tell what they were firing at the helicopter. I for one couldn't tell what the hell they were throwing up at the helicopter, and yes International water do mater in this, and I am not sure on the kidnapping part yet, so I am undecided on that part.
They were firing at the helicopter with slingshots, three men (at least). They fired then took cover several times. There is absolutely no doubt what they were doing or what they were aiming at. It is absolutely clear as day, in the video of the OP, at ~3:35. No one can deny this.


Again, a blockade trumps international waters regarding juristiction according to maritime law. Being in international waters means absolutely nothing if someone is trying to run a blockade. I cannot believe anyone would continue this "international waters" crap, as anyone with half a critical-mind figured this out a week ago. The law is very clear, try reading it.


The boat was not safe then. They had people of their own dying downstairs. Obviously given that their was gun shot going on upstairs it was safer for the soldier to take him down.
Your telling me that an incapicated soldier was not safe upstairs? Then who was doing the attacking? The gunfire upstairs was probably soldiers trying to get to their wounded and presumably endangered comrade.

Look, if someone in your house gets hurt... do you drag them down to the cellar and apply pressure? No, you call an ambulance. Well, the soldier's ambulance (in the form of a medical bird or boat) was waiting for them right outside, and that med-vehicle could transport them to a real hospital in quicktime.

Are you telling me that they had to bring the soldiers downstairs because "activists" on the deck were trying to kill incapacitated people? What does that say about the "activists"? Could they need to defend themselves from incapacitated people, by killing them? Ultimately, the question is: why would an incapicitated soldier's life be in danger during extraction from the deck, if people were merely defending themselves.

Anyway, even if the activists were trying to shelter the soldiers from further violence at the hands of other "activists", it created the impression of kidnapping and the IDF could not be sure why the men were being kidnapped. It escalated the conflict, needlessly if we are to believe that "activists" merely defended themselves.

If people incapacitated my fellow soldier and tried to kidnap him, I would fight to retrieve him and get him to the med-vehicle asap. I wouldn't be like "ok, you can have him".

All the "activists" needed to do was secure the soldier on the deck and allow extraction. Taking the soldiers was an escalation, and I think a pretty obvious one. Presuming this escalation was necessary only makes the "activists" look worse.
 
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Your telling me that an incapicated soldier was not safe upstairs? Then who was doing the attacking? Th gunfire upstairs was probably soldiers trying to get to their wounded and presumably endangered comrade.
well it seemed to be killing people, that would be why he would be safer downstairs out of fire.

Look, if someone in your house gets hurt... do you drag them down to the cellar and apply pressure? No, you call an ambulance. Well, the soldier's ambulance (in the form of a medical bird or boat) was waiting for them right outside, and that med-vehicle could transport them to a real hospital in quicktime.
Not if your own family are being killed. You, at best give them the same treatment as you can give your family. There were several calls made to the Israelis that there were injured on board. If you lisen to the tape you will find the captain raises a white flag and tells the Israeli's they are just civilians. There is still a few shots after that.


Are you telling me that they had to bring the soldiers downstairs because "acitivists" on the deck were trying to kill incapacitated people? What does that say about the "activists"? Could they need to defend themselves from incapacitated people, by killing them?
No I have already given a reason why they took the soldiers down deck. That was a viable reason. It was I think the reason the US/ irish peacmaker, now call terrorist gave I think. You will need to ask them later to get their answer.


Ultimately, the question is: why would an incapicitated soldier's life be in danger during extraction from the deck, if people were merely defending themselves.
When you defend yourself you sometimes need to attack others. I am not saying this is what happened, simply answering your question. I saw big beatings going on just like you.


Anyway, even if the activists were trying to shelter the soldiers from further violence at the hands of other "activists", it created the impression of kidnapping and the IDF could not be sure why the men were being kidnapped. It escalated the conflict, needlessly if we are to believe that "activists" merely defended themselves.
I don't think that was the case at all. There were obviously some activists who were furious with the soldiers but I saw a long time ago pictures of other activists helping them and one of one shooing an activist away. Things were out of hand. Exactly why we do not know yet.

Whether or not you now believe that this showed kidnapping it was not and it was the safest place to put them when there was live fire on deck. The two or three disarmed soldiers by O'Keef or whatever his name was were taken downstairs probably because it seemed the only place to take them. Otherwise he would have just had to stay on deck and they all might have got killed.

(a little fun, neither of us knows the answers, now I am off to bed)
 

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I saw one new thing (~3:40). I didn't know before that the "activists" had attacked the helicopter.


One question... Why would they bring the soldiers downstairs? Surely they could be extracted to better medical facilities by the IDF. They are endangering the soldier's lives by preventing extraction. It could also look (to the IDF) like they are being kidnapped for nefarious purpose.
My guess is that they were trying to kidnap them so they'll have something to bargain on.
 

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The video, like the Israeli one is not clear when it is filmed. However there is blood right at the beginning so it is suggesting their has already been serious injury.

They definitely looked to me like they were catapulting the helicopter and when I first looked I thought they had shot it down, though I see it retreated, possibly injured.

I think it is trying to show that guns were being aimed at them and they shot at the helicopter for that reason.

It isn't really any more conclusive than the Israeli one.
Well actually unlike this video the Israeli one is filmed from above and is consecutive.
Here we cannot really know what came before what because the video is pretty much changing scenes every few moments.
It's very badly edited.
 

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You didn't well it been all over the news channles, and the fact that you could hear fireing after they said that they were civilans


Here is a the raw Footage that they had on their
Ah they said they are civilians, so the soldiers should just put down their handguns and let the "civilians" to beat the crap out of them, correct?
This movie doesn't show anyone shot in cold blood, it doesn't even show who is doing the shooting, we see injured people, we already know there were injured people, how is this video helping us understand the "free gaza" claim that they were shot unprovoked?
We had an Israeli journalist interviewing IHH members in Turkey on TV, he showed them the pictures and got very unconvising answears, they just sounded like a bunch of liers who were caught lying and try to make a run for it. For example when they were faced with the pictures of the knieves they said they are kitchen knives, so he showed them a knife that looks like a mini sword with a rounded blade, they said its a "traditional knife that people walk around with, its not sharp"... come on...
 

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Funny, I thought they treated Israeli soldiers that had been injured. The picture above is a passenger doctoring the wounds of an Israeli solider.
 
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The soldier could get much better treatment by being allowed/assisted to go to his med-vehicle that is waiting outside.

Why can't he go to it? I'm sure it is not because Israeli soldiers are trying to kill him. Is someone else trying to murder him?

I'm sorry, but a picture of someone putting a bandage to his head does not absolve the kidnappers or mean their intentions were good. It doesn't take a genius to snap a couple pictures and cover their ass, providing support for the "we were trying to help them" line.

Remember, I was the first person to suggest that some "activists" were intervening and helping the soldiers, but there is no excuse for bringing them downstairs instead of allowing them to be extracted. It's like getting paper towels instead of calling an ambulance and then claiming "I was trying to do the right thing". It doesn't ring true... at all.
 
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The soldier could get much better treatment by being allowed/assisted to go to his med-vehicle that is waiting outside.

Why can't he go to it? I'm sure it is not because Israeli soldiers are trying to kill him. Is someone else trying to murder him?

I'm sorry, but a picture of someone putting a bandage to his head does not absolve the kidnappers or mean their intentions were good. It doesn't take a genius to snap a couple pictures and cover their ass, providing support for the "we were trying to help them" line.

Remember, I was the first person to suggest that some "activists" were intervening and helping the soldiers, but there is no excuse for bringing them downstairs instead of allowing them to be extracted. It's like getting paper towels instead of calling an ambulance and then claiming "I was trying to do the right thing". It doesn't ring true... at all.
Watched the video twice. Regardless of what the American guy in the red vest on the stairs stated.....From the appearance and apparel they were wearing, those did not look like Israeli soldiers to me. One wearing a Tshirt with horizontal stripes?? And the old guy with the gray beard, pants down and checkered undershorts?? Didn't really strike me as military issue.

Color me a little confused....??


.
 

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Watched the video twice. Regardless of what the American guy in the red vest on the stairs stated.....From the appearance and apparel they were wearing, those did not look like Israeli soldiers to me. One wearing a Tshirt with horizontal stripes?? And the old guy with the gray beard, pants down and checkered undershorts?? Didn't really strike me as military issue.

Color me a little confused....??


.
I agree.

however, the comment on the undershorts...... you don't have to wear military issue underwear.
 

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I had not noticed that the soldiers were in strange uniforms. Yes , one does have to wear military issue underwear (but I can maybe see that rule going unenforced).

If the soldiers were missing uniform parts, it could be that they were taken to be used to decieve other soldiers. I remember seeing one soldier lose his LCE (vest-type gear to carry ammo etc) and the "activists" threw it downstairs. I'll have to look again.


ps. There are rumors(?) that the "activists" had firearms and threw them overboard after the fight.
 
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Poor bastard washed the (persumably ex-white) boxers with that red shirt. So funny. :)

Unfortunately, IIRC, that was the position that nearly was overrun. Probably because Mr. FancyPants was too busy polishing his nails (just joking).


But I would expect a commando team going on a raid to wear issued underwear. Obviously, the underwear is not going to help fool any soldiers, so that is another issue.
 
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