• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Rationales for Death Penalty

-Demosthenes-

Internet Revolutionist
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
7
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
What are the basic rationales for the death penalty?

It acts as a deterrent?

Ripping someone's eyes out with fork for committing a crime can be a "deterrent", killing someone's family for committing a crime can be a "deterrent", but does that make it right?

It saves lives?

Who's lives does it save? I agree that some people should get life in prison (and actually stay there sometimes), but if you kill them then it seems that you have defeated the purpose of "saving" people.

Revenge?

Valid reason to take a life?

Are there other basic and simple reasons or rationales for the death penalty, or other responses?
 

KurtFF8

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
as George Orwell said:

The whole idea of revenge and punishment is a childish day-dream. Properly speaking, there is no such thing as revenge. Revenge is an act which you want to commit when you are powerless and because you are powerless: as soon as the sense of impotence is removed, the desire evaporates also.
 

Old and wise

Active member
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
310
Reaction score
0
Location
New England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I am a firm believer in an 'Eye for an Eye'.

Fortunately, I have a loaded 38 within arms reach at all times. Anyone that would attack anyone in my household would poay the ultimate price, IMMEDIATELY.
 

Canuck

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
849
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
deterent nope
death row is full up

out law guns and take them from their dead cold hands if need be
then mabe in time you will have saved some people

Death penalty is not doing anything except mocking god's words
 

M14 Shooter

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
2,622
Reaction score
68
Location
Toledo-ish OH
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
-Demosthenes- said:
What are the basic rationales for the death penalty?
The utilitarian argument is two-fold:
-It will deter some people from comitting a similar crime
-It guarantees the criminal will never commit a similar crime again

The retributiveist argument is simpler:
-Some people commit acts so heinous, they deserve to die.

In reality, its both argument put together.
Its that simple, really.
 

Ima Troll

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
81
Reaction score
0
Location
Chicago
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
-Demosthenes- said:
What are the basic rationales for the death penalty?

It acts as a deterrent?

Ripping someone's eyes out with fork for committing a crime can be a "deterrent", killing someone's family for committing a crime can be a "deterrent", but does that make it right?

It saves lives?

Who's lives does it save? I agree that some people should get life in prison (and actually stay there sometimes), but if you kill them then it seems that you have defeated the purpose of "saving" people.

Revenge?

Valid reason to take a life?

Are there other basic and simple reasons or rationales for the death penalty, or other responses?
money; its cheaper
 

M14 Shooter

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
2,622
Reaction score
68
Location
Toledo-ish OH
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Death penalty is not doing anything except mocking god's words
Interesting.
God killed a lot more people for their crimes than GWB ever has (and ever will), and the crimes He killed them for were FAR less serious than those we execute people for today.

Who is mocking God's word?
 

M14 Shooter

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
2,622
Reaction score
68
Location
Toledo-ish OH
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
galenrox said:
well that's just plain illogical.
As has been well proven by alcahol and drug prohibition, as long as there's a demand there will be a market, and in making it a black market the government loses the ability to regulate the market.
If guns became illegal, how many of the people who would continue to buy the guns would be homeowners looking solely to protect their homes. That's right, pretty damn few. The people who would buy the guns are the same types of people who get caught using illegal guns now, actual criminals.
And thus the result of this little idea of your's is a bunch of armed criminals and unarmed civilians.
Oh yeah, that would end SO well.
There's no valid argument for banning guns.
Those on the left that DO want to ban them dont care in the least about 'saving livesl; instead, they only want to remove power from the people and give it to themselves.
 

-Demosthenes-

Internet Revolutionist
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
7
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The utilitarian argument is two-fold:
-It will deter some people from comitting a similar crime
...
A lot of things can be a deterrent...
Ripping someone's eyes out with fork for committing a crime can be a "deterrent", killing someone's family for committing a crime can be a "deterrent", but does that make it right?
...
-It guarantees the criminal will never commit a similar crime again
So would locking someone up for the rest of their lives.

...
The retributiveist argument is simpler:
-Some people commit acts so heinous, they deserve to die.
A matter of opinion.

money; its cheaper
Not a good reason to take a life. Example: would you have the government kill all poor people so that the government doesn't have to pay for them?

There's no valid argument for banning guns.
Those on the left that DO want to ban them dont care in the least about 'saving livesl; instead, they only want to remove power from the people and give it to themselves.
Well of course there are valid arguments for banning guns, there are just more valid arguments for keeping guns.
 

DeeJayH

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,728
Reaction score
1,688
Location
Scooping Zeus' Poop
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Ima Troll said:
money; its cheaper
actually the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment
with all the automatic appeals, all the investigations etc.... it is cheaper to just lock em up and throw away the key
and death is a quick out and painless, in prison they suffer for a long time

until i learned that, i was pro death penalty
being a capitalist, it is all about the benjamins :shock: :doh :lol:
 

Ima Troll

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
81
Reaction score
0
Location
Chicago
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
DeeJayH said:
actually the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment
use cheaper lawyers

with all the automatic appeals, all the investigations etc.... it is cheaper to just lock em up and throw away the key
arent there appeals and investigations anyway? whether they are on death row or not?

and death is a quick out and painless, in prison they suffer for a long time
do you prefer when prisoners suffer for a long time?

until i learned that, i was pro death penalty
so intensified suffering for criminals is the way to go?

being a capitalist, it is all about the benjamins :shock: :doh :lol:
in what way do life sentences breed capitalism?
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,334
Reaction score
16,228
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
What are the basic rationales for the death penalty?
You never have to worry about that scumbag again,there is no possibility of escape for,there is no appeals for him,there is no simple luxeries such as library,tv, internet and some other things for him.
 

DeeJayH

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,728
Reaction score
1,688
Location
Scooping Zeus' Poop
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Ima Troll said:
use cheaper lawyers

arent there appeals and investigations anyway? whether they are on death row or not?

do you prefer when prisoners suffer for a long time?

so intensified suffering for criminals is the way to go?

in what way do life sentences breed capitalism?
I have no sympathy for hardcore criminals who are eligible for the death penalty

the reason i say it is all about the benjamins, is because life inprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty. therefore life is more cost effective

however after entering my previous post, i did some more research and found conflicting information on the cost issue.
 

DivineComedy

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
129
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
KurtFF8 said:
as George Orwell said:
“The whole idea of revenge and punishment is a childish day-dream. Properly speaking, there is no such thing as revenge. Revenge is an act which you want to commit when you are powerless and because you are powerless: as soon as the sense of impotence is removed, the desire evaporates also.”


I would like to be Lord High Executioner in charge of eliminating whoring lawyers (especially those that know their client is guilty so they have to use jury consultants), lottery officials, usurers (that think a shopaholic that hides their purchases to win a VISA National Treasure Sweepstakes is funny), casino owners, sweepstake officials that say to everyone “you are a winner,” and those that talk to the dead for money, or anybody else that due process establishes has made their living by preying upon the weak and the elderly. But, it is just a dream, I am sure someone else is far more qualified (would look good holding a large axe), which is alright by me.

It is a grass roots movement, as all such movements start out, and all we need is your vote to clean up America and make it a place where those that talk to the dead do it without profiting from it.

Just spread the word, and before long we can have an America we can be proud of.

If you do not like the idea of using due process for the death penalty please vote to bring back the code duello. As always we want to do things the legal way when there are people that need killing.

When there are people out there that think “Caveat emptor” means the victim is always responsible for being duped, we can not just let things go to hell, we have to make due process work to protect us by passing wholesome statutory laws that protect families from predators.
 

-Demosthenes-

Internet Revolutionist
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
7
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Ima Troll said:
do you prefer when prisoners suffer for a long time?...so intensified suffering for criminals is the way to go?
Would you suppose that suffering is worse than death? I believe that many would (at least slightly) disagree with this. If you got hurt would you rather just die to end the pain?
What's worth more, the absence of suffering or the existence of life?

Ima Troll said:
in what way do life sentences breed capitalism?
They do not "breed" capitalism, it was clearly stated that as a "Capitalist" he would prefer the cheaper way to deal with criminals.

Jamesrage said:
You never have to worry about that scumbag again...
Under that same logic all those who are a nuisance should be killed. This logic seems to conflict with normal human morals.

Jamesrage said:
...there is no possibility of escape for,there is no appeals for him,there is no simple luxeries such as library,tv, internet and some other things for him.
All of which can be done to a prisoner who is alive, I fail to see the point.

DeeJayh said:
I have no sympathy for hardcore criminals who are eligible for the death penalty
Granted, though those who have a respect for life itself also have a valid opinion.

DeeJayh said:
the reason i say it is all about the benjamins, is because life inprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty. therefore life is more cost effective
Everyone got that, Ima Troll was just being a troll.

Divinecomedy said:
I would like to be Lord High Executioner in charge of eliminating whoring lawyers (especially those that know their client is guilty so they have to use jury consultants), lottery officials, usurers (that think a shopaholic that hides their purchases to win a VISA National Treasure Sweepstakes is funny), casino owners, sweepstake officials that say to everyone “you are a winner,” and those that talk to the dead for money, or anybody else that due process establishes has made their living by preying upon the weak and the elderly. But, it is just a dream, I am sure someone else is far more qualified (would look good holding a large axe), which is alright by me.

It is a grass roots movement, as all such movements start out, and all we need is your vote to clean up America and make it a place where those that talk to the dead do it without profiting from it.

Just spread the word, and before long we can have an America we can be proud of.

If you do not like the idea of using due process for the death penalty please vote to bring back the code duello. As always we want to do things the legal way when there are people that need killing.

When there are people out there that think “Caveat emptor” means the victim is always responsible for being duped, we can not just let things go to hell, we have to make due process work to protect us by passing wholesome statutory laws that protect families from predators.
Although I suspect an attempt at some type of dark humor, most would see the mass killings of undesirables in society as negative. Your hidden point that killing a criminal will remove them from society as to improve it is easily subsided by the fact that criminals can be alive when they are removed from society (prison removes them from society for example).
 

DivineComedy

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
129
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
-Demosthenes- said:
Although I suspect an attempt at some type of dark humor, most would see the mass killings of undesirables in society as negative. Your hidden point that killing a criminal will remove them from society as to improve it is easily subsided by the fact that criminals can be alive when they are removed from society (prison removes them from society for example).
Now that my sense of impotence is being removed, and I have had my tantrum where I mentally killed all the undesirables that afflict me, I feel a lot better. I may go to hell just for the though, but I feel better now.

*****

So, now that we have incarcerated the known murderer in the institution for a second time, what do we do with the three psychiatrists that released the insane murderer, psychiatrists that acknowledged in their records that they believed he would kill again, so he could kill again, as he did kill again? Can we get some laws to put them in prison for life, so society can be safe from them?
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,334
Reaction score
16,228
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
All of which can be done to a prisoner who is alive, I fail to see the point.
Prisoners live better than people in third world countries they get free food,free lawer,free tv,free roof over their head,free education,free library,free interent and practically the right to practice what ever religion they want.They other things they get just sickens me,in some prisons they can have sex changes paid for by the tax payer.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sex+changes+prison&spell=1
Missouri at one time let prisoners play video games in their rec room.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1216041game1.html
 

-Demosthenes-

Internet Revolutionist
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
7
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Divinecomedy said:
So, now that we have incarcerated the known murderer in the institution for a second time, what do we do with the three psychiatrists that released the insane murderer, psychiatrists that acknowledged in their records that they believed he would kill again, so he could kill again, as he did kill again? Can we get some laws to put them in prison for life, so society can be safe from them?
I agree that some criminals should be locked up forever.

Prisoners live better than people in third world countries they get free food,free lawer,free tv,free roof over their head,free education,free library,free interent and practically the right to practice what ever religion they want.They other things they get just sickens me,in some prisons they can have sex changes paid for by the tax payer.
Although I would tend to disagree that the necessities of life be denied them (food, water, ect.) you can deny them luxuries without killing them.
 

DeeJayH

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,728
Reaction score
1,688
Location
Scooping Zeus' Poop
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
-Demosthenes- said:
Although I would tend to disagree that the necessities of life be denied them (food, water, ect.) you can deny them luxuries without killing them.
bread, water, fruit and vegetables.
and alot of free HARD labor til they die
 

Liberal Pot Smoker

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
No one desirves the death penalty, no matter what their crimes are. Instead of killing these people we need to look at them and try to make a connection on why people do such hanous crimes. Then we can try to figure out ways to stop people from doing this. But the death penalty is immoral, and should be illigal. Too many inisent people have died and it is wrong. People need rehibilitation and treatment, not punishment.
 

-Demosthenes-

Internet Revolutionist
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
7
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
People need rehibilitation and treatment, not punishment.
But there are times were rehibilitation is not possible.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,334
Reaction score
16,228
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Originally Posted by Liberal Pot Smoker
No one desirves the death penalty, no matter what their crimes are. Instead of killing these people we need to look at them and try to make a connection on why people do such hanous crimes. Then we can try to figure out ways to stop people from doing this. But the death penalty is immoral, and should be illigal. Too many inisent people have died and it is wrong. People need rehibilitation and treatment, not punishment.
So I imagine if someone like Hitler was alive you would be pleading for his life?Get off the ****,it rots your brains.Apparently drug use has effected your thinking ability since you can not figure out why people do heinous things like commit murder.People commit murder for selfish reasons,greed, hatred,or entertainment.
 

DeeJayH

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,728
Reaction score
1,688
Location
Scooping Zeus' Poop
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
jamesrage said:
So I imagine if someone like Hitler was alive you would be pleading for his life?Get off the ****,it rots your brains.Apparently drug use has effected your thinking ability since you can not figure out why people do heinous things like commit murder.People commit murder for selfish reasons,greed, hatred,or entertainment.
why would you take someone, with a ridiculous name like that, seriously?
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,334
Reaction score
16,228
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Originally Posted by DeeJayh
why would you take someone, with a ridiculous name like that, seriously?

I don't.I just think it explains the idiocy of certian liberals and other like minded people.Liberal Pot Smoker is just more honest as to what rots his brains.
 

Ima Troll

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
81
Reaction score
0
Location
Chicago
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
DeeJayH said:
I have no sympathy for hardcore criminals who are eligible for the death penalty
do you have sympathy for people who are not eligible for the death penalty?

the reason i say it is all about the benjamins, is because life inprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty. therefore life is more cost effective

however after entering my previous post, i did some more research and found conflicting information on the cost issue.
the last that i had heard (and this was about ten years ago) is that it costs about $40,000 per year to house a single prison inmate; likewise, for a ten year stay for a single inmate, it costs $400,000; thats much more than the average cost of living; 25 years in prison would then be about $1 million for a single inmate; multiply this number by how many people are currently incarcerated in the US

i likewise suggest that since many criminals do not recieve the death penalty, the other criminals who have shorter terms (5 years for example) are released in a fraction of that time, and are therefore not adequately reformed for their crimes; then they commit more crimes; the prisons are vastly overcrowded after a catch-22 cycle; crime is rampant on the streets, because we like to keep deathrow inmates alive
 
Top Bottom