Rape, incest and abortion

[weaver2]

And you don't know what the f**** you're talking about. You sound like someone who's wielding a sliver of information and that's it. lol

I care about what's right. You care about something else. That's the difference between you and me.

I know exactly what the **** I'm talking about. I'm talking about people like you that post crap about killing jailed inmates to save money; that call women murderers; that mindlessly parrot illogical propaganda; that deny raped and pregnant women the right to abort; that advocate denying women constitutional rights; that never bother reading anything honest or scientific about abortion, unwanted pregnancies, unwanted children, birth, poverty or women.

You do not care about what is right. You care about getting even.

 

[Ren]

I know exactly what the **** I'm talking about. I'm talking about people like you that post crap about killing jailed inmates to save money; that call women murderers; that mindlessly parrot illogical propaganda; that advocate denying women constitutional rights; that never bother reading anything honest or scientific about abortion, unwanted pregnancies, unwanted children, poverty or women.

See, now we're getting somewhere. Let's break this rant down.

Killing jailed inmates: Are you referring to my opinion that execution of rapists and murderers should be on the table? What do you think should happen to rapists and murderers, or are you content with what's happening to them now? Explain.

 

[weaver2]

See, now we're getting somewhere. Let's break this rant down.Killing jailed inmates: Are you referring to my opinion that execution of rapists and murderers should be on the table? What do you think should happen to rapists and murderers, or are you content with what's happening to them now? Explain.

"If you're saying we should terminate ALL lives that break laws, I would be down for something like that. We'd save truckloads in prison costs, too. I love it." You said it soon after it was pointed out that most unwanted children end up in foster care and 90% of incarcerated young males had spent years in the foster care system. In other words deny women legal abortion because it's murder. Just wait until the unwanted child has grown up into a criminal then save money by killing them. It had nothing to do with rapists and murderers.

 

[Ren]

"If you're saying we should terminate ALL lives that break laws, I would be down for something like that. We'd save truckloads in prison costs, too. I love it." You said it soon after it was pointed out that most unwanted children end up in foster care and 90% of incarcerated young males had spent years in the foster care system. In other words deny women legal abortion because it's murder. Just wait until the unwanted child has grown up into a criminal then save money by killing them. It had nothing to do with rapists and murderers.

That response was specific to a comment that I deemed idiotic. You, of course, saw that as an opportunity and pounced on it, probably with the intent to misrepresent.

My official stance on this is what I wrote in response to you; that execution of rapists and murderers should be on the table.

As far as abortion goes, I think it should be illegal, and at the very least, treated as voluntary manslaughter.

Rape victims would have to be on a case by case basis: Was it a violent stranger impregnating the victim or was it a simple matter of "date rape" where the woman could lie about what happened? I wouldn't be surprised if some women think that rape is anything they find offensive.

 

[Eriech]

Punish the rapist not the baby.

 

[Gordy327]

Punish the rapist not the baby.

Why should the victim be punished with an unwanted pregnancy?

 

[Eriech]

Why should the victim be punished with an unwanted pregnancy?

Why create another victim? The rapist should be the one punished.

Why should the victim of a drunk driver spend his or her live paralyzed? People shouldn't have to but they do. Many live the rest of their lives suffering from crimes against them.

Victims are just that victims. Punish those who create victims not the innocent.

 

[Gordy327]

Why create another victim? The rapist should be the one punished.

The woman is the only victim. Why make her suffer needlessly with an unwanted pregnancy?

Why should the victim of a drunk driver spend his or her live paralyzed? People shouldn't have to but they do. Many live the rest of their lives suffering from crimes against them.

That's just an excuse. If one can have their suffering alleviated, then it's likely worth it to them to be free of suffering.

Victims are just that victims. Punish those who create victims not the innocent.

Victims deserve support and compassion. Not compound the crime and suffering they endure by forcing something on them again.

 

[Eriech]

The woman is the only victim. Why make her suffer needlessly with an unwanted pregnancy?

That's just an excuse. If one can have their suffering alleviated, then it's likely worth it to them to be free of suffering.

Victims deserve support and compassion. Not compound the crime and suffering they endure by forcing something on them again.

The woman is the only victim until a resulting baby is killed.

 

[Gordy327]

The woman is the only victim until a resulting baby is killed.

She has to suffer through pregnancy and birth before there is a baby. Why should she be made to suffer? How cruel.

 

[Eriech]

She has to suffer through pregnancy and birth before there is a baby. Why should she be made to suffer? How cruel.

Cruelty was done by the rapist who should be made to suffer.

 

[Gordy327]

Cruelty was done by the rapist who should be made to suffer.

Agreed. But the victim is still suffering. Why must she, who already experienced a traumatic event, be made to suffer still with a pregnancy she neither asked for or wanted? You didn't answer that question!

 

[minnie616]

I see. So who is the new born supposed to be bonding with if not his new parents?

If the woman cannot get the abortion she wanted for whatever reason …She surely should not let the child anywhere near the man who raped her.

That goes without saying.

Than why did you say parents with the “s” added which would imply both biological parents ?

 

[Eriech]

Agreed. But the victim is still suffering. Why must she, who already experienced a traumatic event, be made to suffer still with a pregnancy she neither asked for or wanted? You didn't answer that question!

I have answered. The woman is a victim. The baby should not be one too. A rape victim is not a special instance where it is OK for one human to take the innocent life of another.
Recently, in Buffalo a number of people were shot and will survive, traumatized with uncertain recovery. They will have to live with that trauma just like a rape victim will of hers. Killing the baby won't make it better. Killing the rapist might. Jailing him for a long time, seizing his assets, garnishment of future pay to support the child and restitution for the victim.

 

[minnie616]

The woman is the only victim until a resulting baby is killed.

The woman is the victim, I agree, if she becomes pregnant and chooses an abortion, there will no resulting baby.

 

[Eriech]

The woman is the victim, I agree, if she becomes pregnant and chooses an abortion, there will no resulting baby.

If she becomes pregnant and chooses abortion there will be a second victim.

 

[weaver2]

That response was specific to a comment that I deemed idiotic. You, of course, saw that as an opportunity and pounced on it, probably with the intent to misrepresent. My official stance on this is what I wrote in response to you; that execution of rapists and murderers should be on the table.

I did not post anything about the execution of rapists. That was someone else's post and you were not discussing rapists in post #236.

# 195 Rea, Then give the baby up for adoption. I'm sure a husband and wife would be anxious to give the child a loving home.

# 233 Weaver, Not with bad DNA. (Sorry you thought this was idiotic. I'm guessing that potential adopting parents are not anxious to adopt a child whose father was a rapist (bad DNA) )

#236 Rea, Bad DNA would apply to all criminals; especially repeat offenders. If you're saying we should terminate ALL lives that break laws, I would be down for something like that. We'd save truckloads in prison costs, too. I love it.
("all criminals; especially repeat offenders" is not a comment about rapists. It is a statement about all criminals.)

You've stated abortion is murder and you are against it. You also stated that criminals especially repeat offenders should be terminated. You have been made aware previously that 75% of women that get abortions are at, near or below the poverty line; that most children in foster care come from poor families and most of the incarcerated young males come from the foster system.
My statement is still valid. You believe pregnancies should be carried to term, even a pregnancy resulting from rape; but, you believe that when the unwanted children grow up it is OK to kill them off in the justice system after they have become what statistics predicted, criminals.

Many anti-abortionists think exactly the same thing, save every fetus and kill criminals, because they don't understand or choose to ignore the demographics of poverty, foster care and crime. Criminals in general come from poor families that couldn't support, care for or nurture a child.

Banning abortion will simply exacerbate the situation.

 

[Lursa]

If she becomes pregnant and chooses abortion there will be a second victim.

The woman suffers daily, for nine months, reliving the horror of the pain and violence...the unborn suffers nothing.

And yet you would deny her relief from that pain and suffering, and deny her the chance to restart her life free of a daily reminder.

Then, in some states, the 'father' will have the right to contact the child. And when he gets out, to file for visitation or custody...being part of her life, in all it's horror. To be an influence on the child.

That is what you choose to force women to suffer...while the unborn would suffer nothing.

 

[Eriech]

The woman suffers daily, for nine months, reliving the horror of the pain and violence...the unborn suffers nothing.

And yet you would deny her relief from that pain and suffering, and deny her the chance to restart her life free of a daily reminder.

Then, in some states, the 'father' will have the right to contact the child. And when he gets out, to file for visitation or custody...being part of her life, in all it's horror. To be an influence on the child.

That is what you choose to force women to suffer...while the unborn would suffer nothing.

True, after you are dead you suffer nothing.

 

[Lursa]

True, after you are dead you suffer nothing.

Correct. And I value quality of life over quantity. How about you?

Dont you find that quantity...forcing more 'boots on the ground' no matter the harm to others (like women, their families, society) is dehumanizing?

 

[Gordy327]

If she becomes pregnant and chooses abortion there will be a second victim.

No, there would not be.

I have answered. The woman is a victim. The baby should not be one too. A rape victim is not a special instance where it is OK for one human to take the innocent life of another.
Recently, in Buffalo a number of people were shot and will survive, traumatized with uncertain recovery. They will have to live with that trauma just like a rape victim will of hers. Killing the baby won't make it better. Killing the rapist might. Jailing him for a long time, seizing his assets, garnishment of future pay to support the child and restitution for the victim.

You acknowledge the woman is the victim. But you refuse to acknowledge her suffering from the trauma of rape and then forcing her to continue suffering if she's forced to carry a resulting pregnancy against her will. You show no concern for the victim herself while being all sanctimonious about it. You only show concern for a clump of cells that isn't even a born individual or person, but have no regard for the victim herself or she has and must continue to endure.you could care less about her as long as a fetus is saved. How cruel and hypocritical!

 

[weaver2]

Why create another victim? The rapist should be the one punished.

Why should the victim of a drunk driver spend his or her live paralyzed? People shouldn't have to but they do. Many live the rest of their lives suffering from crimes against them.

Victims are just that victims. Punish those who create victims not the innocent.

You are assuming the child will not suffer because it is the child of rape. You assume wrong

CHILDREN BORN OF RAPE FACE A PAINFUL LEGACY
Robert T. Muller / January 22, 2016
32,000 pregnancies in the United States occur each year as a result of rape, approximately 12,000 of which are carried to term and raised by their birth mothers.

children conceived of rape are more likely to experience:
* severe psychological disorders, the most common of which are Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), depression, and anxiety.
*embryological developmental problems. Many women who are raped opt to take antidepressants to help them cope, which can harm the fetus.
*mental health risk
*poor parent-child relationships, as violent rape can affect maternal capacity to care for the child and to form a loving bond. lead to abusive parenting or neglect.
*feel responsible for their fathers’ actions, living in guilt and embarrassment.
*social stigma. They are described as carriers of the deviant genes, and are often ostracized by families and communities.

Children Born of Rape Face a Painful Legacy - The Trauma & Mental Health Report

A friend of mine once told me that she was the product of her mother’s rape. Staring at her reflection in the mirror, she wondered...

trauma.blog.yorku.ca

Insisting that a child of rape be born because you don't believe in abortion is monstrously egotistical and uncaring. No humane person would wish this for a child.

 

[Gordy327]

You are assuming the child will not suffer because it is the child of rape. You assume wrong

CHILDREN BORN OF RAPE FACE A PAINFUL LEGACY
Robert T. Muller / January 22, 2016
32,000 pregnancies in the United States occur each year as a result of rape, approximately 12,000 of which are carried to term and raised by their birth mothers.

children conceived of rape are more likely to experience:
* severe psychological disorders, the most common of which are Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), depression, and anxiety.
*embryological developmental problems. Many women who are raped opt to take antidepressants to help them cope, which can harm the fetus.
*mental health risk
*poor parent-child relationships, as violent rape can affect maternal capacity to care for the child and to form a loving bond. lead to abusive parenting or neglect.
*feel responsible for their fathers’ actions, living in guilt and embarrassment.
*social stigma. They are described as carriers of the deviant genes, and are often ostracized by families and communities.

Children Born of Rape Face a Painful Legacy - The Trauma & Mental Health Report

A friend of mine once told me that she was the product of her mother’s rape. Staring at her reflection in the mirror, she wondered...

trauma.blog.yorku.ca

Insisting that a child of rape be born because you don't believe in abortion is monstrously egotistical and uncaring. No humane person would wish this for a child.

Apparently, some people are too wrapped up in their own self righteousness to care or see what's going on outside the womb.

 

[choiceone]

I have answered. The woman is a victim. The baby should not be one too. A rape victim is not a special instance where it is OK for one human to take the innocent life of another.
Recently, in Buffalo a number of people were shot and will survive, traumatized with uncertain recovery. They will have to live with that trauma just like a rape victim will of hers. Killing the baby won't make it better. Killing the rapist might. Jailing him for a long time, seizing his assets, garnishment of future pay to support the child and restitution for the victim.

Here's my answer.

Ordinarily, a rapist is someone who victimizes a girl or woman for anywhere from 20 minutes to two days by violating one or more of her bodily orifices with an object no larger than an average penis, after which she is abandoned.

An anti-abortion legislator or a voter who votes for one uses the power of the law, backed up by police violence in enforcement, to keep an embryo or fetus inside the girl or woman by force up to childbirth.

That legislator or voter is using an embryo or fetus as a rape tool to force her to go through the growth of the rape tool inside her until it is the size of a medium watermelon and force it through her vagina or slice open her belly with a scalpel to get it out of her.

Because rape pregnancies are medically fully of complications, she is much more likely to have a terrible pregnancy or childbirth and to be permanently injured or die in pregnancy, childbirth, or from pregnancy-related causes for up to a year after childbirth.

So who is the criminal? The rapist is responsible for the 20 minutes to two days plus perhaps the trauma of early forced pregnancy. But the anti-abortion legislator or voter is responsible for the rest. That is the true criminal.

If that happens and you are responsible as a legislator or voter, I personally think you should be found guilty of a capital crime. And though I'm ordinarily against capital punishment, I'd take pleasure in watching it happen to someone who did that to any girl or woman.

Do I think I'm your moral superior? You bet.

 

[Scrabaholic]

If she becomes pregnant and chooses abortion there will be a second victim.

Incorrect.