Look I won't call you a misogynist if you stop calling me an idiot. Deal?
It is not a fact. It is your opinion. You cling to it because organically it makes sense in your brain. Factually however, it doesn't.
Date rape is rampant because men are let off the hook by being provided excuses like this, campuses don't take the claims seriously, the victim is blamed and shamed. Not because the woman dresses sexy or is flirtatious.
Easily.
I hope you realize that I'm not going to stop doing this. :lol:
And how well does the "ignore bad people and hope they simply go away" strategy generally tend to work in reality, J?
once again none of this BS was ever said by me as proven . . . AGAIN1.) Because that's what you just flat out said. That women "shouldn't alter their behavior" to be more safe.
All attitudes like your's accomplish is to put women too young and reckless to know any better at risk by giving them a false sense of security.
Unfortunately people do still think this way as Gathomas has so painfully demonstrated for us here. It is backwards and rooted in the notion that women who like sex are bad girls and less likely to deny a sexual advance then one who does not advertise her sexuality. And besides, rape is not about out of control sexual desire it is an act of violence.
The problem with changing your dress so that you are not victimized is that any innocent gesture is often construed by the rapist as an invitation. A smile or a friendly comment, even a glance in their direction.
Look I won't call you a misogynist if you stop calling me an idiot. Deal?
It is not a fact. It is your opinion. You cling to it because organically it makes sense in your brain. Factually however, it doesn't.
Date rape is rampant because men are let off the hook by being provided excuses like this, campuses don't take the claims seriously, the victim is blamed and shamed. Not because the woman dresses sexy or is flirtatious.
by all means factually back this BS up, id love to read it, why do you keep dodging this request
and no women should not have to alter thier behavior because of people with mental problems.
good, i dont want you to stop
because every time you post that it proves your post was BS and it completely fails
you still dodge the second request also which totally exposes your failed posts
and what you keep trying to post about desperately trying to cling to fails also is proven fals with fact
would you like proof?
sure its easy
look at what i said ACTUALLY AND FACTUALLY said and its context to Chrisl
now look at the complete BS you claimed i said
once again none of this BS was ever said by me as proven . . . AGAIN
now on to the next BS you posted
by all means factually back this BS up, id love to read it, why do you keep dodging this request
facts win again and your post is destroyed again
now can you back up your two claims or will you dodge them again and prove your post wrong again
It most definitely plays a role in why women (especially YOUNG women and teens) are very hesitant to come forward and press charges, because they know that their reputations will be dragged through the mud, they will be embarrassed, shamed and humiliated, and there is a LOT of stigma that follows them around. Like in your tragic story, the girl committed suicide because her life was miserable, and I've read other stories where women have no choice but to have to move out of their towns/cities. This is why I don't think anything about the victim should be allowed as evidence in a trial, and especially not her clothing, unless she was nude. However, there is the catch-22 in all of this in that there ARE false allegations sometimes and our suspects ARE innocent until PROVEN guilty, so we do have to take "behavior" into consideration during a trial. Women also NEED to go have a rape kit done at the hospital if they've been raped, because that is also quite embarrassing and humiliating and after being raped I can't blame them for not wanting to, but that is really important for evidence in the trial.
The problem with changing your dress so that you are not victimized is that any innocent gesture is often construed by the rapist as an invitation. A smile or a friendly comment, even a glance in their direction.
yes, I could imagine that a someone with the mindset of a rapist could even believe in his mind that a woman "wanted him" even if she completely ignored him once he's set his mind on a victim.
I can guarantee you, that if women stopped entering these kinds of environments, or, at the very least, stopped indulging in the behaviors I mentioned in my previous post, the rape rate on college campuses would plummet overnight. Unscrupulous men simply wouldn't have the opportunity to attack anyone.
While I absolutely agree that offenders should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law where their guilt can actually be proven, that is not going to make the problem in question go away in and of itself. Like murder, rape is as old as humanity itself, and so are the kinds of men that commit it.
The only defense against their type a woman really has is vigilance.
1.)Again...
2.)Why don't you actually tell us what your solution to the problem would be, J? :roll:
And how well does the "ignore bad people and hope they simply go away" strategy generally tend to work in reality, J?
once again none of this BS was ever said by me as proven . . . AGAIN1.) Because that's what you just flat out said. That women "shouldn't alter their behavior" to be more safe.
All attitudes like your's accomplish is to put women too young and reckless to know any better at risk by giving them a false sense of security.
I agree with you except for the section I made bold.
This implies that the sexual behavior of the woman should have some role in determining whether or not she is telling the truth about being raped. Her promiscuity, if that is the case however, is irrelevant because promiscuous women can still be raped. Also, promiscuity in a man does not make him a less credible witness so it should not make a woman a less credible one.
I can see if the women had a history of making false claims or mental illness or something else that made legitimately called her character into question but nothing about her sexual behavior should matter.
I don't think Gathomas is 100% wrong. I think he is trying to describe how the RAPIST might look at woman, and I don't think that HE is trying to put blame on the women, but just to say that the rapist MAY look at you in this way if you are dressed provocatively, and I think he may be right in very few instances, but I really think that you could take all the precautions in the world, and if you are targeted for rape it is not because of anything you did. (the "in general" you of course - lol).
1.)I don't think Gathomas is 100% wrong. I think he is trying to describe how the RAPIST might look at woman, and I don't think that HE is trying to put blame on the women, but just to say that the rapist MAY look at you in this way if you are dressed provocatively, and I think he may be right in very few instances, but I really think that you could take all the precautions in the world, and if you are targeted for rape it is not because of anything you did. (the "in general" you of course - lol).
................
Sounds like a boys will be boys mentality. This only provides deviants an excuse to abuse innocent women.I can guarantee you, that if women stopped entering these kinds of environments, or, at the very least, stopped indulging in the behaviors I mentioned in my previous post, the rape rate on college campuses would plummet overnight. Unscrupulous men simply wouldn't have the opportunity to attack anyone.
You keep not responding to data that confirms clothing has nothing do with the selection of the victim.While I absolutely agree that offenders should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law where their guilt can actually be proven, that is not going to make the problem in question go away in and of itself. Like murder, rape is as old as humanity itself, and so are the kinds of men that commit it
well that's a damn shame because it is not the only defense. I'll just continue to have a little more faith in your gender then that.The only defense against their type a woman really has is vigilance
Why would you want to make that perceived "invitation" any more blatant then, or provide the man in question with the actual opportunity to possibly attack you through reckless behavior?
Gathomas, if this were the case then rape would be RARE in the Middle East countries where women DO dress conservatively and do have to have a male chaperon with them, but rape is NOT rare in those countries. That is because it really doesn't have anything to do with how a woman dresses, or even presents herself in a lot of cases but that the rapist is mentally deficient.
1.)Sounds like a boys will be boys mentality.
I don't mean her "past" sexual behaviors, but her behavior on the day in question, with the person in question.
snip
and no women should not have to alter thier behavior because of people with mental problems.
You're dodging the question J.
What do you propose be done?
So far, it looks like exactly nothing.
also tell me what the factual "problem" is
Sounds like a boys will be boys mentality. This only provides deviants an excuse to abuse innocent women.
You keep not responding to data that confirms clothing has nothing do with the selection of the victim.
well that's a damn shame because it is not the only defense.
I'll just continue to have a little more faith in your gender then that.
You are not hearing me. You may read it as an invitation but that is just your twisted perception. Convicted rapists, when interviewed about why they rape or how they chose their victims, consistently state that dress is not a factor. That innocent behavior is misinterpreted as an invitation.
Even her sexual behavior in the moment is irrelevant. If she is flirtatious that doesn't mean she has given permission. If she invites him back to her home and changes her mind, that is also irrelevant in terms of how a case is tried. It may be difficult to determine but it should boil down to only thing. Did she consent? Did she at any time say stop and he did not stop? If he forced himself on her nothing justified that.
Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country
Middle Eastern nations actually do have fairly low rape rates.
Why on Earth wouldn't they? Rapists simply don't have the same kind of opportunity to target women that they have in more "liberal" societies.
snip
and no women should not have to alter thier behavior because of people with mental problems.
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