• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ranting so I don't pay a psychologist. Covid related.

Centrist

Banned
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2022
Messages
2,349
Reaction score
1,643
Location
Anti-Populism, Pro-NATO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Third day of Covid. Let me tell you, I don't wish for nobody to have this garbage, definitely different than a flu.

That's not the point of the story. I decided to phone a friend of the family for an unrelated issue. Since I was coughing every couple of seconds he asked. I answered saying I have Covid-19.

The first reaction was "I told you taking that vaccine will not help".

and my response in between some swear words in my own language "Imagine if I didn't take it".

This Covid-19 virus has divided people more at a scale never seen before in my view. Here is the division based on masks, another aspect of Covid. I also salute my fellow vaccinated that do not wear it like a badge.

a) Anti-mask fanatics:



b) Pro-mask fanatics:



c) A riot which appears to be between pro-healthpass and anti-healthpass fans (France).

 
Last edited:
Third day of Covid. Let me tell you, I don't wish for nobody to have this garbage, definitely different than a flu.

Sorry to hear this. Hope you get well soon.

That's not the point of the story. I decided to phone a friend of the family for an unrelated issue. Since I was coughing every couple of seconds he asked. I answered saying I have Covid-19.

The first reaction was "I told you taking that vaccine will not help".

That was a bit insensitive of your friend. Your body, your choice.

and my response in between some swear words in my own language "Imagine if I didn't take it".

Since I for one don't know anything about you; i.e. your age, weight, physical condition, pre-existing medical conditions, etc. I would not presume to speculate on your particular risk. Even if I did know, I would not give you any medical advice one way or the other. That's between you and your physician.

I will point out that vaccines do not cure Covid-19, nor do they prevent one from becoming infected. They are designed to help speed up one's existing immune system's reaction to both identify and combat the disease. Thus, a person with a strong, healthy immune system can also defeat Covid-19 without need of vaccination. IMO the issue is simply one of personal choice based on a risk/benefits basis understanding your own heath conditions.

This Covid-19 virus has divided people more at a scale never seen before in my view. Here is the division based on masks, another aspect of Covid. I also salute my fellow vaccinated that do not wear it like a badge.

IMO that is based on a number of factors, not the least of which is a combination of fearmongering and authoritarian tactics used to get people to cooperate with vaccine usage. Fear and Hate are major motivators in such interpersonal conflicts. Create a situation where fear and hate abound and you also create a hotbed of violent reaction.

In any case, best wishes on getting well soon.
 
Last edited:
Your body, your choice.

Its not quite like that. Not so cut and dry. We live in a society. As such, we have certain societal obligations.

Deplorables do not respect these obligations but we have laws right comple them. Good people comply from education, knowledge and wisdom.
But we all have these obligations.
 
1. Since I for one don't know anything about you; i.e. your age, weight, physical condition, pre-existing medical conditions, etc. I would not presume to speculate on your particular risk. Even if I did know, I would not give you any medical advice one way or the other. That's between you and your physician.

2. I will point out that vaccines do not cure Covid-19, nor do they prevent one from becoming infected. They are designed to help speed up one's existing immune system's reaction to both identify and combat the disease. Thus, a person with a strong, healthy immune system can also defeat Covid-19 without need of vaccination. IMO the issue is simply one of personal choice based on a risk/benefits basis understanding your own heath conditions.

3. IMO that is based on a number of factors, not the least of which is a combination of fearmongering and authoritarian tactics used to get people to cooperate with vaccine usage. Fear and Hate are major motivators in such interpersonal conflicts. Create a situation where fear and hate abound and you also create a hotbed of violent reaction.

4. In any case, best wishes on getting well soon.
1. Correct, I analyzed, spoke with professionals, other issues, did not jump in to get that AstraZeneca vaccine which caused a lot of issues for people and that was my decision.

2. I think you are confusing me with the radical vaccination crowd that makes stuff up. Yes, of course vaccines do not cure Covid-19 nor do they prevent becoming infected. I have 2 Moderna 1 Pfizer and I feel like i am in a Russian gulag being tortured. But if I did not have them, right now I won't be sitting on this forum.

3. From my view ---> I summed it up to human nature. Some of us want to be radical enforcers, the others radical rebels ("In their pursuit of rights some individuals forget their responsabilities").

4. Thank you for the wishes.
 
Last edited:
Its not quite like that. Not so cut and dry.

Actually, it is EXACTLY like that except in the most extreme situations. For example, with a disease like one demonstrating characteristics of that imaginary virus in the Dustin Hoffman movie "Outbreak" (1995).

We live in a society. As such, we have certain societal obligations.

That is always the argument used by authoritarians. Again, what such "obligations" may be is a matter of opinion in most situations.

Deplorables do not respect these obligations but we have laws right comple them. Good people comply from education, knowledge and wisdom.
But we all have these obligations.

There we go with the prime tactics I expressed in my prior reply. Demonize to create hate and fear, then moralizing to support whatever action deemed necessary to "force compliance."

Never ceases to amaze me. :coffee:
 
Last edited:
Third day of Covid. Let me tell you, I don't wish for nobody to have this garbage, definitely different than a flu.

That's not the point of the story. I decided to phone a friend of the family for an unrelated issue. Since I was coughing every couple of seconds he asked. I answered saying I have Covid-19.

The first reaction was "I told you taking that vaccine will not help".

and my response in between some swear words in my own language "Imagine if I didn't take it".

This Covid-19 virus has divided people more at a scale never seen before in my view. Here is the division based on masks, another aspect of Covid. I also salute my fellow vaccinated that do not wear it like a badge.

a) Anti-mask fanatics:



b) Pro-mask fanatics:



c) A riot which appears to be between pro-healthpass and anti-healthpass fans (France).



Why assume without the vaccine you would have felt worse? I find it more concerning they will kill Title 42 because of reduced covid risk but the keep the mask travel mandate in place until at least 3-May.
 
Its not quite like that. Not so cut and dry. We live in a society. As such, we have certain societal obligations.

Deplorables do not respect these obligations but we have laws right comple them. Good people comply from education, knowledge and wisdom.
But we all have these obligations.
Yes we have societal obligations. Among them are obligations to respect the rights of others to decline an experimental pseudo vaccine with no long term data of its effects.

Another societal obligation is to resist labeling people who disagree with us with polarizing, bigoted labels like deplorables.
 
Actually, it is EXACTLY like that except in the most extreme situations. For example, with a disease like one demonstrating characteristics of that imaginary virus in the Dustin Hoffman movie "Outbreak" (1995).



That is always the argument used by authoritarians. Again, what such "obligations" may be is a matter of opinion in most situations.



There we go with the prime tactics I expressed in my prior reply. Demonize to create hate, then moralize to support whatever force necessary to "comply."

Never ceases to amaze me. :coffee:

Be part of the solution not part of the problem.

Yes, there will always be deplorables but the good people will never bow to them.
 
Yes we have societal obligations. Among them are obligations to respect the rights of others to decline an experimental pseudo vaccine with no long term data of its effects.

Another societal obligation is to resist labeling people who disagree with us with polarizing, bigoted labels like deplorables.

🤡

Thank for your comments!
 
Actually, it is EXACTLY like that except in the most extreme situations. For example, with a disease like one demonstrating characteristics of that imaginary virus in the Dustin Hoffman movie "Outbreak" (1995).



That is always the argument used by authoritarians. Again, what such "obligations" may be is a matter of opinion in most situations.



There we go with the prime tactics I expressed in my prior reply. Demonize to create hate and fear, then moralizing to support whatever action deemed necessary to "force compliance."

Never ceases to amaze me. :coffee:
People who fail to live up to their obligations to society and GET VACCINATED are SCHMUCKS. Period.
Governor Schwarzenegger had it right.....SCHMUCKS, all of them.
 
People who fail to live up to their obligations to society and GET VACCINATED are SCHMUCKS. Period.
Governor Schwarzenegger had it right.....SCHMUCKS, all of them.

Where did this rule come out we must all obey what someone else deems an obligation? It's not a legal obligation btw but a rare time when leftist make a 'moral' obligation mandatory
 
Its not quite like that. Not so cut and dry. We live in a society. As such, we have certain societal obligations.

Deplorables do not respect these obligations but we have laws right comple them. Good people comply from education, knowledge and wisdom.
But we all have these obligations.
First paragraph is on point. No need to carry on with insulting our brethren. I am guilty of doing it as well, as it is frustrating watching people ignoring science.
 
Where did this rule come out we must all obey what someone else deems an obligation? It's not a legal obligation btw but a rare time when leftist make a 'moral' obligation mandatory
Living among others.
 
People who fail to live up to their obligations to society and GET VACCINATED are SCHMUCKS. Period.
Governor Schwarzenegger had it right.....SCHMUCKS, all of them.

Ad hominem is not an argument, nor does it serve to do anything except alert the target to your lack of reason, and show how weak your own position is on a subject.

Tagline time. :coffee:
 
Ad hominem is not an argument, nor does it serve to do anything except alert the target to your lack of reason, and show how weak your own position is on a subject.

Tagline time. :coffee:
If I still have to give you the reasons that the unvaccinated and the maskholes are SCHMUCKS then I feel sorry for you.
A while ago Kay Ivey (republican governor of Alabama) got it right too:

Alabama's Republican Gov. Kay Ivey drew fire on Friday after saying it was "time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks” for a spike in her state's COVID-19 cases

And this from Arnold:

He added: “I think people should know there is a virus here, it kills people. And the only way we prevent it is we get vaccinated, we wear masks, we do social distancing, washing your hands all of the time, and not just to think about, ‘Well, my freedom is being kind of disturbed here.’ No, screw your freedom. Because with freedom comes obligations and responsibilities. You cannot just say, ‘I have the right to do x, y, and z,’ when you affect other people. That is when it gets serious. It’s like, no different than a traffic light. They put the traffic light in the intersection so someone doesn’t kill someone else by accident. You cannot say, ‘No one is going to tell me that I’m going to stop here, I’m going to go right through it.’ Yeah, then you kill someone else. It is the same thing with the virus. You cannot go and not put the mask on because when you breathe you can infect someone else, and you can infect someone that then gets sick and may die. So this is why I think we all have to work together on this.… We have to come together rather than fighting and always just saying, ‘According to my principles this is a free country and I have the freedom to wear no mask.’ Yeah, you have the freedom to wear no mask, but you know something? You’re a schmuck for not wearing a mask.”
 
Last edited:
First paragraph is on point.

That is a matter of opinion.

No need to carry on with insulting our brethren.

I agree with this sentiment. Ad hominin responses are not an argument, just emotional venting.

I am guilty of doing it as well,

Kudos on self-reflection.

as it is frustrating watching people ignoring science.

Ahhh the old "ignoring science" argument.

Funny because more and more science is now coming out to show that people with healthy immune systems can defeat the virus without vaccination. That they also retain the ability to combat re-infection as well.

Of course, there are also the false narratives regarding "anti-vaxxers" as people who oppose other's getting vaccinated.

Then there are all those studies (paid for by Big Pharma companies) which insist on the need for vaccinations constantly being touted as "the science."

But I wonder if anyone considers that a profit motive exists for Big Pharma to push such "science" which also seeks to "debunk" natural immunity? Vaccination is a trillion dollar industry after all.

Regardless, the point still stands that individual choice should always prevail except in the most extremely dangerous situations (like Ebola, Hantavirus, etc.) with those most at risk taking whatever precautions they chose.

Meanwhile, let the rest of us live with our "moral choices."
 
Where did this rule come out we must all obey what someone else deems an obligation? It's not a legal obligation btw but a rare time when leftist make a 'moral' obligation mandatory
It comes from the inexhaustible Marxist drive for power. Amoral Leftists have no hesitation creating mandatory requirements for others to follow ceding power to Leftist authoritarians.

Ayn Rand explained the process as authoritarian governments set out an ever changing set of rules which people of good conscience scramble to follow while the (Leftist) scoundrel carries on with no inhibitions. We see this with so-called public health officials who want to ban public gatherings except for BLM riots.
 
That is a matter of opinion.



I agree with this sentiment. Ad hominin responses are not an argument, just emotional venting.



Kudos on self-reflection.



Ahhh the old "ignoring science" argument.

Funny because more and more science is now coming out to show that people with healthy immune systems can defeat the virus without vaccination. That they also retain the ability to combat re-infection as well.

Of course, there are also the false narratives regarding "anti-vaxxers" as people who oppose other's getting vaccinated.

Then there are all those studies (paid for by Big Pharma companies) which insist on the need for vaccinations constantly being touted as "the science."

But I wonder if anyone considers that a profit motive exists for Big Pharma to push such "science" which also seeks to "debunk" natural immunity? Vaccination is a trillion dollar industry after all.

Regardless, the point still stands that individual choice should always prevail except in the most extremely dangerous situations (like Ebola, Hantavirus, etc.) with those most at risk taking whatever precautions they chose.

Meanwhile, let the rest of us live with our "moral choices."
There is no such thing as "natural immunity": there is only getting infected and getting vaccinated as sources of immunity. And neither of those is absolute.
You do not have a "moral choice" to infect others without taking all reasonable precautions to prevent it.
And why are you objecting to the money made by the pharmacy industry? Do you also object to the money they make off insulin and epipens? Lets show a little consistency here.
 
There is no such thing as "natural immunity": there is only getting infected and getting vaccinated as sources of immunity. And neither of those is absolute.

"Natural immunity" is the term used to describe how one's own UNASSISTED immune system acts to combat an infection.

All a vaccine does is prime one's existing immune system to create antibodies to recognize and fight an infection sooner.

You do not have a "moral choice" to infect others without taking all reasonable precautions to prevent it.

LOL. If you are vaccinated, then you are "primed" to fight the infection. You can still get infected.

If you are not vaccinated, it may take your own immune system a bit longer to identify and combat the infection.

Regardless of whether vaccinated or not, if your existing immune system is severely compromised by extreme age and/or multiple pre-existing debilitating health conditions, you are more likely to succumb to a disease than not.

And why are you objecting to the money made by the pharmacy industry? Do you also object to the money they make off insulin and epipens? Lets show a little consistency here.

Just pointing out that much of "the science" you espouse can (and will likely be) compromised by the profit motive. I.e. pushing vaccination and denigrating natural immunity because you can't make money if people realize they might not need your product as badly as claimed.
 
Last edited:
"Natural immunity" is the term used to describe how one's own UNASSISTED immune system acts to combat an infection.

All a vaccine does is prime one's existing immune system to create antibodies to recognize and fight an infection sooner.



LOL. If you are vaccinated, then you are "primed" to fight the infection. You can still get infected.

If you are not vaccinated, it may take your own immune system a bit longer to identify and combat the infection.

Regardless of whether vaccinated or not, if your existing immune system is severely compromised by extreme age and/or multiple pre-existing debilitating health conditions, you are more likely to succumb to a disease than not.
I know how vaccines work.
The covidiot gang, the ones who have steadfastly refused to get vaccinated, are the schmucks responsible for where we are today. Early on the vaccines were highly effective at preventing infection-not 100%, but then there is no vaccine in existence that is 100% effective. The virus variants at the start were deadly for a lot of people, and hundreds of thousands of deaths could have been prevented if the covidiots lived up to their social responsibilities. THEY are the reason nearly a million people have died rather than a few hundred thousand. Had everyone been vaccinated we would not be where we are today. I have no respect for any covidiot, and I don't care what happens to them at all. Nowadays the vaccines are not as good at preventing infection but they are still excellent at preventing serious disease. We missed the boat a year or so ago when we didn't enforce a requirement to get vaccinated or stay home full time, like we did with smallpox years ago.
Lets stop calling it "natural immunity". No one is born immune to covid. Lets call it what it is: GETTING INFECTED.
 
I know how vaccines work.
The covidiot gang, the ones who have steadfastly refused to get vaccinated, are the schmucks responsible for where we are today. Early on the vaccines were highly effective at preventing infection-not 100%, but then there is no vaccine in existence that is 100% effective. The virus variants at the start were deadly for a lot of people, and hundreds of thousands of deaths could have been prevented if the covidiots lived up to their social responsibilities. THEY are the reason nearly a million people have died rather than a few hundred thousand. Had everyone been vaccinated we would not be where we are today. I have no respect for any covidiot, and I don't care what happens to them at all. Nowadays the vaccines are not as good at preventing infection but they are still excellent at preventing serious disease. We missed the boat a year or so ago when we didn't enforce a requirement to get vaccinated or stay home full time, like we did with smallpox years ago.
Lets stop calling it "natural immunity". No one is born immune to covid. Lets call it what it is: GETTING INFECTED.
How do you know that?
 
There is no such thing as "natural immunity": there is only getting infected and getting vaccinated as sources of immunity. And neither of those is absolute.
Then what are you demanding?
You do not have a "moral choice" to infect others without taking all reasonable precautions to prevent it.
Stay home and stay safe. Don't eat at restaurants, workout at gyms, go to the movies, or shop at the mall.

Every grocery store has curbside delivery right to the trunk of your car.

Take a walk around your neighborhood, ride a bike, wave at your neighbors from afar, talk on the phone, stream Netflix..

You have all the freedom you need without mandating other people cower to your fears.

And why are you objecting to the money made by the pharmacy industry? Do you also object to the money they make off insulin and epipens?
Yes.

Lets show a little consistency here.
???
 
Third day of Covid. Let me tell you, I don't wish for nobody to have this garbage, definitely different than a flu.

That's not the point of the story. I decided to phone a friend of the family for an unrelated issue. Since I was coughing every couple of seconds he asked. I answered saying I have Covid-19.

The first reaction was "I told you taking that vaccine will not help".

and my response in between some swear words in my own language "Imagine if I didn't take it".

This Covid-19 virus has divided people more at a scale never seen before in my view. Here is the division based on masks, another aspect of Covid. I also salute my fellow vaccinated that do not wear it like a badge.

a) Anti-mask fanatics:



b) Pro-mask fanatics:



c) A riot which appears to be between pro-healthpass and anti-healthpass fans (France).



Get well soon!
 
we didn't enforce a requirement to get vaccinated or stay home full time.
Not even Vladimir Putin came up with this idea. What would the logistics of this be? How are you going to maintain control in society while applying your master plan? Military? Police? or you will start a civillian brigade to check on people? We live in a western democracy.

If thinking you have the full picture is not arrogance, I don't know what is.

I am glad I did not meet people like you as I am very allergic to emotional based thinking. If someone would talk to me with this superiority and lack of facts before -> I don't know if I would have taken the vaccine. Good thing I met a qualified doctor that explained how exactly this helps and why i need it.

Salute again those that are vaccinated but do not wear it like a badge.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom