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RANKING: Countries Where the Media is Most Free.

Wraith8

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"Reporters Without Borders" Press Freedom Index 2013

Top Ten Countries
--------------------------
1) Finland
2) Netherlands
3) Norway
4) Luxembourg
5) Andorra
6) Denmark
7) Liechtenstein
8) New Zealand
9) Iceland
10) Sweden



Worst Ten Countries
--------------------------
1) Eritrea
2) North Korea
3) Turkmenistan
4) Syria
5) Somalia
6) Iran
7) China
8) Vietnam
9) Cuba
10) Sudan



The United States ranked #32 between Suriname and Lithuania.
 
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Carjosse

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We are down to #20 (Canada) that is a loss of 10 spots what the hell did we do? The one flaw to Reporters Without Borders is that they seem to massively flip out over small things and things that are common sense they see as evil.
 

Wraith8

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I found it rather ironic that Vladimir Putin was using the US media to criticize president Obama this week when Russia's media ranks a dismal 148th out of 179 countries.
 

Grand Mal

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I found it rather ironic that Vladimir Putin was using the US media to criticize president Obama this week when Russia's media ranks a dismal 148th out of 179 countries.

well, if you want to be heard by Americans it's probably a waste of time going through Pravda.
 

Middleground

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We are down to #20 (Canada) that is a loss of 10 spots what the hell did we do? The one flaw to Reporters Without Borders is that they seem to massively flip out over small things and things that are common sense they see as evil.

**cough cough** Sun News media **cough cough**
 

Wraith8

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well, if you want to be heard by Americans it's probably a waste of time going through Pravda.
I completely understand Putin's logic in writing his op-ed however that doesn't change the irony or the hypocrisy. If President Obama were to write a similar op-ed that's critical of the Russian government would that be allowed to be carried in the Russian media uncensored?
 

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When you look at these rankings you have to look at the criteria by which countries are judged. Many list socialized medicine as a top priority. Others include infant mortality but many countries keep statistics for infant mortality differently. Many countries rank higher than the US does but the way they count infant deaths vary.

I will admit that the US has suffered with respect to it's international public relations with it's inept foreign policy and NSA spying scandals.
 

Wraith8

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When you look at these rankings you have to look at the criteria by which countries are judged. Many list socialized medicine as a top priority. Others include infant mortality but many countries keep statistics for infant mortality differently. Many countries rank higher than the US does but the way they count infant deaths vary.
This is a media ranking. What does infant mortality have to do with that?
 

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Penderyn

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When you look at these rankings you have to look at the criteria by which countries are judged. Many list socialized medicine as a top priority. Others include infant mortality but many countries keep statistics for infant mortality differently. Many countries rank higher than the US does but the way they count infant deaths vary.

I will admit that the US has suffered with respect to it's international public relations with it's inept foreign policy and NSA spying scandals.

What is 'socialised medicine'? Does it mean a normal health service? Are there really countries without this?
 

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"Reporters Without Borders" Press Freedom Index 2013

Top Ten Countries
--------------------------
1) Finland
2) Netherlands
3) Norway
4) Luxembourg
5) Andorra
6) Denmark
7) Liechtenstein
8) New Zealand
9) Iceland
10) Sweden

[...]



The United States ranked #32 between Suriname and Lithuania.

The top ten free media states by population:

1) Finland - 5,439,741
2) Netherlands - 16,799,300
3) Norway - 5,077,798
4) Luxembourg - 537,000
5) Andorra - 76,246
6) Denmark - 5,608,784
7) Liechtenstein - 36,842
8) New Zealand - 4,474,590
9) Iceland - 323,810
10) Sweden - 9,606,522

Total: about 48,000,000, Average: 4,800,000

One common theme among lists like this one, the ones that people always reference to show how the US is slipping, is that these tiny western countries are always the ones occupying the top spots. About half of our states have higher populations than the average of these top ten countries.
List of U.S. states and territories by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Two points: 1. If your country is advanced and tiny, there is no excuse to not have your stuff together. 2. The same people that use these studies are also the ones that usually love Federal gov't. If these studies show anything, its that our smaller state governments are better positioned to excel than large cumbersome federal gov't. Can we learn something from these countries, sure, but it would be a mistake to assume our federal gov't can copy a system of one of these tiny countries and apply it across the board to our country which is about 280,000,000 people larger and succeed.

Does anyone honestly believe we don't have the most robust media/press in the world?
 

sawdust

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What is 'socialised medicine'? Does it mean a normal health service? Are there really countries without this?
Socialized medicine is what you would call single payer. It's just theft and redistribution.
 

sawdust

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This is a media ranking. What does infant mortality have to do with that?

Basically what it means is that I didn't follow the link and didn't read much further than ranking. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 

PeteEU

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The top ten free media states by population:

1) Finland - 5,439,741
2) Netherlands - 16,799,300
3) Norway - 5,077,798
4) Luxembourg - 537,000
5) Andorra - 76,246
6) Denmark - 5,608,784
7) Liechtenstein - 36,842
8) New Zealand - 4,474,590
9) Iceland - 323,810
10) Sweden - 9,606,522

Total: about 48,000,000, Average: 4,800,000

One common theme among lists like this one, the ones that people always reference to show how the US is slipping, is that these tiny western countries are always the ones occupying the top spots. About half of our states have higher populations than the average of these top ten countries.
List of U.S. states and territories by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Two points: 1. If your country is advanced and tiny, there is no excuse to not have your stuff together. 2. The same people that use these studies are also the ones that usually love Federal gov't. If these studies show anything, its that our smaller state governments are better positioned to excel than large cumbersome federal gov't. Can we learn something from these countries, sure, but it would be a mistake to assume our federal gov't can copy a system of one of these tiny countries and apply it across the board to our country which is about 280,000,000 people larger and succeed.

What the hell does population size have to do with freedom of the press?

Does anyone honestly believe we don't have the most robust media/press in the world?

Yes. Your media is often rather pathetic and sensationalist and rarely does actual journalism any more. Looking at MSNBC, CNN, FOX News and so on.. it is partisan biased attacks and very little journalism on the facts.. with a large portion of sensationalism. I remember a report during the Bush years, where there was American troops dying daily in Iraq and Afghanistan and the coverage was beyond pathetic... Fox News were mostly running Anna Nicole Smith stories (was just after her death), and the other media outlets were covering it, but still they were trying to focus more on the Anna Nicole Smith story.

But the rankings are based on the following.

The report is based partly on a questionnaire[3] sent to partner organizations of Reporters Without Borders (18 freedom of expression non-governmental organizations located in all five continents) and its 150 correspondents around the world, as well as to journalists, researchers, jurists and human rights activists.[2] The questionnaire asks questions about pluralism, media independence, environment and self-censorship, legislative framework, transparency, and infrastructure. The questionnaire takes account of the legal framework for the media (including penalties for press offences, the existence of a state monopoly for certain kinds of media and how the media are regulated) and the level of independence of the public media. It also reflects violations of the free flow of information on the Internet. Violence against journalists, netizens, and media assistants, including abuses attributable to the state, armed militias, clandestine organizations, and pressure groups, are monitored by RSF staff during the year and are also part of the final score. A smaller score corresponds to greater freedom of the press.

On the bold/underlined bits the US fails badly which is why the US ranks so low.. relatively.

For one the US media constantly self censors. A classic example is on the Israel/Palestinian issue. They also often self censor when the story goes against a political ideology the choose to follow (or are ordered by corporate HQ to follow) which is another issue when it comes to the rankings.. independence. Most US media are not as independent as American's think they are. They are all controlled by 3-5 different companies who use them as their pet political voice to one degree or another. Newscorp uses it a lot, where as Time Warner Bros does not as much (but still does). This hinders the journalist independence and that counts down a hella of a lot.

And then there is the groups within government and corporations that go after journalists for doing their jobs. Violence against the press during the OWS protests across the US was the reason the US went down 15+ places on last years rankings. Violence against journalists... and killings in Iraq and Afghanistan plus the imprisonment of a journalist on GITMO is another reason the US is so low on the rankings... and frankly well deserved.

The myth about how "free and fair" the US media is.. needs to be shaken up and the truth needs to be brought to light so we can return to the day where US media (along with the BBC) was the cornerstone of freedom and democracy in the world... the days of Cronkite and Bernstien and whats his name.. Those days are long gone.
 

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Basically what it means is that I didn't follow the link and didn't read much further than ranking. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

You didn't seem to read the Op which explained a lot of that. Perhaps if you wish to participate in a medium where reading and writing are pretty much the only part of it you might want to do things like read. But hey why read when you can spout irrelevant partisan hackery and make yourself look so good. perhaps the US media does not have to be good when certain people seem only to care about catch phrases and never really wanted to know the issue in the first place. It just goes to show a person who wants only to complain has no need for a free press when faux news opr MSNBC feeds them the lines they want to believe in. The free market at work, if intellectual debate sold they would fight for a free press, but since the main part of society is ignorant people who could care less there is no need for the market to be bothered with the few people who actually want information over a catch phrase.
 

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You didn't seem to read the Op which explained a lot of that. Perhaps if you wish to participate in a medium where reading and writing are pretty much the only part of it you might want to do things like read. But hey why read when you can spout irrelevant partisan hackery and make yourself look so good. perhaps the US media does not have to be good when certain people seem only to care about catch phrases and never really wanted to know the issue in the first place. It just goes to show a person who wants only to complain has no need for a free press when faux news opr MSNBC feeds them the lines they want to believe in. The free market at work, if intellectual debate sold they would fight for a free press, but since the main part of society is ignorant people who could care less there is no need for the market to be bothered with the few people who actually want information over a catch phrase.

No, I was just being honest and contrite. Thanks for the jerkery.
 

Grand Mal

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I completely understand Putin's logic in writing his op-ed however that doesn't change the irony or the hypocrisy. If President Obama were to write a similar op-ed that's critical of the Russian government would that be allowed to be carried in the Russian media uncensored?

Never.
Or, maybe it'd get front page exposure with three rebuttals from Duma members.
Whichever, and whatever your opinion of Russia and Putin, it's probably best to not consider that he's a clumsy and inept politician. He's thrived in a very nasty environment- I bet he's capable of subtle manipulation almost instinctively.
 

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I don't care what that poll says, I think that the American media is as free as any. I think it's extreemly biased and has become corrupt and not very trust worthy, but that comes from within, not from the government...
 

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Socialized medicine is what you would call single payer. It's just theft and redistribution.

Don't understand. All civilised countries look after their citizens' health, obviously. What sort of sick bastards would do otherwise?
 

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Don't understand. All civilised countries look after their citizens' health, obviously. What sort of sick bastards would do otherwise?

We look after our citizens health with a system that created the most advanced medical services system in the world. We have the most advanced research and development companies, the best equipped hospitals and if someone get sick it's law that they have to be treated in any hospital that receives federal grants. Most municipalities have hospitals that receive federal money.

Now we have Obamacare which forces people to buy a product that many don't want to buy, which takes profit out of healthcare and supporting industries, restricting budgets for R&D and limiting the ability of hospitals to keep up with technology or replace aging equipment. Just like Europe.
 

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What is the big deal about press freedom. Singapore ranks 149. First world country, world's second-best economy, GDP per capita ranking is 6th in the world.
 

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What the hell does population size have to do with freedom of the press?

Not too much, but your post is about RANKINGS. Doesn't matter what the ranking is for, Population has a HUGE impact on that. Do you really think it's hard for Liechtenstein to have a really good press corps? They probably have like 5 journalists total.

Yes. Your media is often rather pathetic and sensationalist and rarely does actual journalism any more. Looking at MSNBC, CNN, FOX News and so on.. it is partisan biased attacks and very little journalism on the facts.. with a large portion of sensationalism. I remember a report during the Bush years, where there was American troops dying daily in Iraq and Afghanistan and the coverage was beyond pathetic... Fox News were mostly running Anna Nicole Smith stories (was just after her death), and the other media outlets were covering it, but still they were trying to focus more on the Anna Nicole Smith story.
I won't disagree with you there with respect to our cable tv news. They exist solely for entertainment purposes while getting a little news at the same time. But you are mistaken to think those are the only news sources. America has hundreds of newspapers and online publications, hundreds of radio stations devoted to news, dozens of Sunday news programs, not to mention access to any other news paper online.
But the rankings are based on the following.

The report is based partly on a questionnaire[3] sent to partner organizations of Reporters Without Borders (18 freedom of expression non-governmental organizations located in all five continents) and its 150 correspondents around the world, as well as to journalists, researchers, jurists and human rights activists.[2] The questionnaire asks questions about pluralism, media independence, environment and self-censorship, legislative framework, transparency, and infrastructure. The questionnaire takes account of the legal framework for the media (including penalties for press offences, the existence of a state monopoly for certain kinds of media and how the media are regulated) and the level of independence of the public media. It also reflects violations of the free flow of information on the Internet. Violence against journalists, netizens, and media assistants, including abuses attributable to the state, armed militias, clandestine organizations, and pressure groups, are monitored by RSF staff during the year and are also part of the final score. A smaller score corresponds to greater freedom of the press.
Really? A questionnaire? Pathetic.
On the bold/underlined bits the US fails badly which is why the US ranks so low.. relatively.
For one the US media constantly self censors. A classic example is on the Israel/Palestinian issue. They also often self censor when the story goes against a political ideology the choose to follow (or are ordered by corporate HQ to follow) which is another issue when it comes to the rankings.. independence. Most US media are not as independent as American's think they are. They are all controlled by 3-5 different companies who use them as their pet political voice to one degree or another. Newscorp uses it a lot, where as Time Warner Bros does not as much (but still does). This hinders the journalist independence and that counts down a hella of a lot.

And then there is the groups within government and corporations that go after journalists for doing their jobs. Violence against the press during the OWS protests across the US was the reason the US went down 15+ places on last years rankings. Violence against journalists... and killings in Iraq and Afghanistan plus the imprisonment of a journalist on GITMO is another reason the US is so low on the rankings... and frankly well deserved.
More about cable tv news which I've already explained is a highly visible minority of news outlets. Actually, the "violence against the press" that you mentioned only highlights the freedom of association that our press has. They are free to go wherever they want and report on whatever they want...and are subject to the consequences of where they put themselves after reasonable efforts are made to shield them. You'll have to give me a link or something to your GITMO claim because I'm unaware of that one.
The myth about how "free and fair" the US media is.. needs to be shaken up and the truth needs to be brought to light so we can return to the day where US media (along with the BBC) was the cornerstone of freedom and democracy in the world... the days of Cronkite and Bernstien and whats his name.. Those days are long gone.
Obviously I disagree with your points...they are overwhelmingly based on the highly visible minority of news outlets, cable tv news. The only thing I'll concede to you is how this administration has pursued leaks via going after reporters rather than the leakers. That is a worthy discussion, and sparked outrage...and that is how the system is supposed to work. This ranking, however, is more or less symbolic so people can pat themselves on the back and mock the US which maintains the most prolific and free press taken as a whole in the world.
 

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Not too much, but your post is about RANKINGS. Doesn't matter what the ranking is for, Population has a HUGE impact on that. Do you really think it's hard for Liechtenstein to have a really good press corps? They probably have like 5 journalists total.

The rankings have little to do with the actual journalists, but their working conditions. So yes population means nothing in that regard. If Liechtenstein has 5 journalist (that is quite insulting btw) and the government restricts them totally, owns all media and censors everything.. then they will be ranked at the bottom of the list.. regardless if they are 10k people or 100 million.

I won't disagree with you there with respect to our cable tv news. They exist solely for entertainment purposes while getting a little news at the same time. But you are mistaken to think those are the only news sources. America has hundreds of newspapers and online publications, hundreds of radio stations devoted to news, dozens of Sunday news programs, not to mention access to any other news paper online.

Yes and most are owned by the same 5-6 corporations. But with the internets its gotten better as it is easier to publish news.. and easier to publish false stories of course as well.

Really? A questionnaire? Pathetic.

You do realize that all your economic statistics (unemployment, consumer views and so on) are based on questionnaires.... Most of the US statistics is actually based on questionnaires..

More about cable tv news which I've already explained is a highly visible minority of news outlets. Actually, the "violence against the press" that you mentioned only highlights the freedom of association that our press has. They are free to go wherever they want and report on whatever they want...and are subject to the consequences of where they put themselves after reasonable efforts are made to shield them.

No.. this was violence against journalists with clearly marked PRESS apparel on.

You'll have to give me a link or something to your GITMO claim because I'm unaware of that one.

Guantánamo Bay files: Al-Jazeera cameraman held for six years | World news | The Guardian

Let me guess.. he was suspected AL Q .. so it was justified right? And yes a camera man is a journalist too.

Obviously I disagree with your points...they are overwhelmingly based on the highly visible minority of news outlets, cable tv news.

I dont deny that, but it does not change the fact that most major news outlets and a bunch of local are all owned by the same companies. They are Newscorp, Disney, Time Warner, CBS, Comcast and Viacom. These 6 stand for.. actually 5, since Viacom and CBS are owned by the same person.. control a huge portion of US media, both print, radio, internet and tv including cable.

The only thing I'll concede to you is how this administration has pursued leaks via going after reporters rather than the leakers. That is a worthy discussion, and sparked outrage...and that is how the system is supposed to work.

And that is what counts down on the list... that the administration goes after reporters. It puts them in line with Russia and other governments that do the same.

This ranking, however, is more or less symbolic so people can pat themselves on the back and mock the US which maintains the most prolific and free press taken as a whole in the world.

Bull****, and a typical American right wing view when something is not agreeable. Just look at the above.. you agree with me that the administration (and the last one) are going after journalists... and that counts as a negative on the rankings.. are you seriously saying that it should not, just because it is the US and there is a myth in the heads of Americans that they are so perfect?

Of course not. Fact is, that attacks against journalists, both legally and physically are a big negative and a long with media ownership issues and self censorship and you have a low ranking. How about owning up to the problems and try to fight to fix them? How about calling your congressman and demanding that he/she does something about the massive media companies that stifle competition in local areas? Or demand answers and a resolution to the governments targeting of journalists? But you and most Americans dont.. because they are being brainwashed by the corporate media machines to ignore such cases as long as it does not involve the main media outlets.. of course when the government spies on one of the big news outlets.. then all hell breaks loose and things are actually made up and worse than they really are.. but hey screw the facts!

You might not like the rankings, but they are truthful and eye opening and that is what they should be. For example, my home country of Denmark lost many places a few years ago because the cartoon issue. That was fully justified... we regained it again when the government finally got their act together and protected the idea of freedom of the press..
 

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Wow. I'm a bit surprised. Romania is #42, ahead of Italy, South Korea and other nations... doesn't feel like we have such a free media honestly. But anyway, I don't trust rankings.

What I found amusing:

Botswana is #40
Niger is #43 LOL
Ghana at #30. LOLO, above the USA which was at #32.

The whole ranking seems highly bogus and quite randomly made. I can make up random parameters and then spit a few numbers and random names on a page too.
 
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