Raise My Taxes, Mr. President!

[Kushinator]

deficit vs debt? Seriously? THATS what you want to hang your hat on? We have a national DEBT of 14 trillion...thats money we dont have...so...we can call that a deficit...or we can play idiotic word games. Yeah...lets do that. Oh I feel SO humbled...saying national DEBT of 14 trillion is SO MUCH BETTER than saying deficit of 14 trillion.

The terms imply different meanings. A country can have a deficit but still have a capital surplus. Similarly, a country can be in debt (like in the late 1990s) and have a budgetary surplus. Point being, your opinion is useless if you do not know the difference between debt and deficit.

Besides, who are the primary holders of US public debt?

 

[VanceMack]

The terms imply different meanings. A country can have a deficit but still have a capital surplus. Similarly, a country can be in debt (like in the late 1990s) and have a budgetary surplus. Point being, your opinion is useless if you do not know the difference between debt and deficit.

Besides, who are the primary holders of US public debt?

Hey...while you are ROFLing and playing word games...this ought to make milk spurt out of your nose.

2008- $10,024,724,896,912.49
2010- $14,000,000,000,000.00

Now thats just ****ing HILARIOUS. Lets play word games and just IGNORE the important ****...

 

[Kushinator]

Seriously...Im amazed. In a discussion about a 14 TRILLION DOLLAR hole, out of control government spending, the fact that that DEFICIT spending has STILL left us with 18-20% real unemployment...you want to talk about a WORD 'boo boo'. Dood...you need to run for congress...

A positive statement based on normative rants is always compelling :roll:

Deficit pressure naturally increases during economic contractions rof

 

[VanceMack]

The terms imply different meanings. A country can have a deficit but still have a capital surplus. Similarly, a country can be in debt (like in the late 1990s) and have a budgetary surplus. Point being, your opinion is useless if you do not know the difference between debt and deficit.

Besides, who are the primary holders of US public debt?

Son...my opinion doesnt mean squat when it comes to a massive financial hole, annual out of control government spending, unemployment that is continuing to climb, every economic indicator revealing worse than the previous...its not my opinion...its that reality that should scare the hell out of people. But by all means...worry more about my flippant misuse of debt vs deficit...thats absolutely BRILLIANT. Hell...I misspell words all the time...that should make you get ****ing CRAMPS from laughing so much...I mean literally CRAMPS...so look for them too...

 

[VanceMack]

A positive statement based on normative rants is always compelling :roll:

Deficit pressure naturally increases during economic contractions rof

Seriosuly dood...how much do you get paid...I mean...in addition to getting to wear the little word nazi banner on your sleeve. Is there...like...vacation pay and ****?

 

[VanceMack]

A positive statement based on normative rants is always compelling :roll:

Deficit pressure naturally increases during economic contractions rof

Stop...stop...THIS is totally unimportant..."The nation's total federal debt next year is expected to exceed $14 trillion — about $47,000 for every U.S. resident."
because Vance...an occasional online blogger...MISUSED the word debt v deficit. Call CNN...call MSNBC...call Fox...no...**** them...

On a thread about tax cuts or increases vs government spending and your idiotic remark about golly...we shouldnt worry about deficits (government spending) because there is a 10% unemployment rate...really...THAT WORD...is what you want to focus on.

 

[Kushinator]

Are you through ranting? When you can actually carry the conversation given the subject matter, come on back.

 

[VanceMack]

Are you through ranting? When you can actually carry the conversation given the subject matter, come on back.

:lamo

THATS HILARIOUS!!!

You make an idiotic comment about not caring about the DEBT when we are at 10% unemployment...I MISUSE the word debt v deficit...YOU take us down this word nazi road and THEN you whine about a derailed conversation and subject matter? Thats ****ing PRICELESS!!! I dont care if it puts us in a debt OR deficit...THATS priceless! :lamo

 

[VanceMack]

BY all means...lets get back to the topic...

DEMOCRATS...REPUBLICANS...and yes, you Mr President...

You have taken us from $10,024,724,896,912.49 to $14,000,000,000,000.00 in 18 months. Dont you even DARE thinking about raising taxes until you end that inane spending spree.

 

[Kushinator]

:lamo

THATS HILARIOUS!!!

You make an idiotic comment about not caring about the DEBT when we are at 10% unemployment...I MISUSE the word debt v deficit...YOU take us down this word nazi road and THEN you whine about a derailed conversation and subject matter? Thats ****ing PRICELESS!!! I dont care if it puts us in a debt OR deficit...THATS priceless! :lamo

10% unemployment is a far greater risk to our standard of living than $14 trillion in debt. Why?

 

[Kushinator]

BY all means...lets get back to the topic...

DEMOCRATS...REPUBLICANS...and yes, you Mr President...

You have taken us from $10,024,724,896,912.49 to $14,000,000,000,000.00 in 18 months. Dont you even DARE thinking about raising taxes until you end that inane spending spree.

Whether you agree or not, tax increases (or expiring tax cuts) in line with massive spending reductions are detrimental to reducing the deficit. Your strawman is of no use; contractions force deficits.

 

[VanceMack]

10% unemployment is a far greater risk to our standard of living than $14 trillion in debt. Why?

Point in fact...that 14 trillion has added NO jobs to the economy. At BEST the current government spending is enabling failed policies to be continued which may SAVE a few hundred thousand jobs but by no means CREATED (notice they ALWAYS use those two words together) jobs.

Government spending...straight up government spending COULD add jobs. If for example the government said we are going to buy every American in the country a new car, then by golly we would be spending money we dont have but that would certainly put people to work building those cars. If we said we want to completely replace all of our ships in the navy, again...same result. But just increasing social spending is throwing money into a volcano pit hoping the sacrifice of greebacks will appease the gods.

Mind you...that would add to the D E B T long term but by way of example as to how EFFECTIVE government spending would work...theres an option.Not a good one...but an option. You cant just preserve a few hundred thousand jobs. You cant arbitrarily and artificially prop up a few states budgets and expect economic miracles.

 

[VanceMack]

Whether you agree or not, tax increases (or expiring tax cuts) in line with massive spending reductions are detrimental to reducing the deficit. Your strawman is of no use; contractions force deficits.

I see...forcing the government to stgop spending money like crackwhores is detrimental...no...wait...I dont see that at all. You cant just GIVE money away and expect it to help ANYTHING. You have to purchase something...which means it has to be PRODUCED and people then would have to go to work.

But make no mistakes...there are TONS of ways to cut spending. End foreign assistance. Cull back on government contracts (which invariably have massive overhead). Stop PBS, arts spending, etc COMPLETELY. Review wasteful federal practices (offering early out retirements then rehiring those same individuals as contract employees for example). Cut spending...have a plan for investing in the American worker that which you DO spend (for example...end welfare, use that money to build new textile and food processing plants, purchase or lease unused farm property and put people to work building and growing, then give away food and clothing instead of cash). There are just so many ways they could do things more efficiently. But until they do so that 14 trillion will soon become 15.5 trillion, then 17 trillion. And think about it...we have added 4 trillion in 18 MONTHS...thats an increase of 28.5%...to our D E B T...in 18 months...

and you think its OK if we as tax payers just happily endorse that? I highly doubt you have much skin in the game if thats the case...

 

[Kushinator]

Point in fact...that 14 trillion has added NO jobs to the economy. At BEST the current government spending is enabling failed policies to be continued which may SAVE a few hundred thousand jobs but by no means CREATED (notice they ALWAYS use those two words together) jobs.

So of all the $14 trillion in spending, it has "added NO jobs to th economy"? Brilliant!

Government spending...straight up government spending COULD add jobs. If for example the government said we are going to buy every American in the country a new car, then by golly we would be spending money we dont have but that would certainly put people to work building those cars. If we said we want to completely replace all of our ships in the navy, again...same result. But just increasing social spending is throwing money into a volcano pit hoping the sacrifice of greebacks will appease the gods.

Nope! People without incomes spend welfare checks and food stamps; hardly any of it is saved. Google multiplier effects from government spending and see what comes up (Zandi has a particularly interesting study). The evidence simply does not agree.

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Small%20Business_7_24_08.pdf

Mind you...that would add to the D E B T long term but by way of example as to how EFFECTIVE government spending would work...theres an option.Not a good one...but an option. You cant just preserve a few hundred thousand jobs. You cant arbitrarily and artificially prop up a few states budgets and expect economic miracles.

:2brickwal not even worth replying.... You need some serious exposure to the available literature. http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf

 

[VanceMack]

So of all the $14 trillion in spending, it has "added NO jobs to th economy"? Brilliant!

Nope! People without incomes spend welfare checks and food stamps; hardly any of it is saved. Google multiplier effects from government spending and see what comes up (Zandi has a particularly interesting study). The evidence simply does not agree.

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Small%20Business_7_24_08.pdf

:2brickwal not even worth replying.... You need some serious exposure to the available literature. http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf

No no...and lets be honest...its not 14 trillion in SPENDING...thats 14 trillion in DEFICIT (D E B T) spending. 14 trillion ABOVE AND BEYOND what they take from the taxpayers. And no...it isnt CREATING jobs. Its perpetuating failed policies. The D E B T isnt adding squat by way of jobs. It IS however adding to the D E B T in interest.

Like I said...I'm thinking you haven't got much by way in investment in this argument. Well...except on the receiving end of it somehow...

So...listen...I have this GREAT idea...you...and all your obviously very wealthy and educated buddies...create a fund and give everything you want to the government to spend however the **** they want. I mean...since you are all for taxes and think this whole 14 trillion dollar debt is a twat waddle...

For a 'libertarian' you shore do got you some interesting perspectives on government spending...:roll:

 

[VanceMack]

So of all the $14 trillion in spending, it has "added NO jobs to th economy"? Brilliant!


Nope! People without incomes spend welfare checks and food stamps; hardly any of it is saved. Google multiplier effects from government spending and see what comes up (Zandi has a particularly interesting study). The evidence simply does not agree.

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Small%20Business_7_24_08.pdf



:2brickwal not even worth replying.... You need some serious exposure to the available literature. http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf

Oh...and for the record...I DID read the literature you provided. Perspective is everything of course. Now...I don't claim to have my doctorate in economics...but I do know a thing or two about federal and corporate budgets...I know a thing or two about spending. And while I am SURE this genius has much more education and experience than I...the simple fact remains that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT couldnt even so much as agree on an annual budget this year. Thats helped...right? That big stimulus plan we all got...you saw that...right? and of course $12 dollars in everyones paychecks..THAT helped. And perpetuating unemployment checks...that is REALLY boosting consumer spending...right? And the bank spending...that sure has boosted the housing market...any day...any day now... Why all you have to do is look at every major economic indicator we have and realize that these economic geniuses are just right on the ****ing MONEY baby...:roll:

 

[Kushinator]

Oh...and for the record...I DID read the literature you provided. Perspective is everything of course. Now...I don't claim to have my doctorate in economics...but I do know a thing or two about federal and corporate budgets...I know a thing or two about spending. And while I am SURE this genius has much more education and experience than I...the simple fact remains that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT couldnt even so much as agree on an annual budget this year. Thats helped...right? That big stimulus plan we all got...you saw that...right? and of course $12 dollars in everyones paychecks..THAT helped. And perpetuating unemployment checks...that is REALLY boosting consumer spending...right? And the bank spending...that sure has boosted the housing market...any day...any day now... Why all you have to do is look at every major economic indicator we have and realize that these economic geniuses are just right on the ****ing MONEY baby...:roll:

Are you though ranting yet?

 

[Kushinator]

when the dems finally realize that they can no longer demagogue this issue and admit they are gonna have to raise taxes on all taxpayers and cut benefits to the non-tax payers-that's when the poop will hit the fan and the era of runaway government will end

While would middle and lower income families be required to pay higher taxes?