Racism Towards Whites [W:427, 577]

[Black Dog]

Nice summation! :lol:

Wishing someone "good night" is now lying, hehehehehe!

 

[Helix]

Moderator's Warning:

This is a final warning to stick to the topic, which is not other posters.

 

[Ray410]

Japanese Americans were not in a good position at the end of WWII, especiailly the ones interned and displaced from their homes on the west coast, but they had full legal rights.

African Americans in the south lived with government imposed segregation and were denied equal access to education, were consistently treated as inferior servents, were often subject to extreme violence for stepping out of their assigned role as second class citizens and (de facto] could not vote. The African Americans that migrated to the northern and western cities during the war were mostly southerners with little education that were relegated to the worst parts of town by poverty and defacto segregation and suffered from many of the issues common to displaced people.

That ended 50 years ago. Perhaps blacks got off the starting block a few years later than the much hated Japanese, but how is that relevant now when considering the diversion in achievements and cultural evolution after full legal rights were restored to both over 50 years ago?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

That ended 50 years ago. Perhaps blacks got off the starting block a few years later than the much hated Japanese, but how is that relevant now when considering the diversion in achievements and cultural evolution after full legal rights were restored to both over 50 years ago?

The african american community has plenty of failures under it's belt when it comes to actively dealing with the circumstances history has left them in (I have said as much in this thread numerous times). But that doesn't change the simple fact your comparison simply doesn't work, because it relies on a single and very limited event of systemic reporession, while african americans faced many such systems over a multi-century period

 

[Bodi]

Not so.
Two of those Three definitions can be found on Wiki's Definition section of 'Racism'.
Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So let's look at a Better/Fairer take on it.

"Racism involves the belief in racial differences, which acts as a justification for non-equal treatment (which some regard as "discrimination") of members of that race.[10] The term is commonly used negatively and is usually associated with race-based prejudice, violence, dislike, discrimination, or oppression, the term can also have Varying and Contested definitions. Racialism is a related term, sometimes intended to avoid these negative meanings.

As a word, racism is an “-ism”, a belief that can be described by a word ending in the suffix -ism, pertaining to race. As its etymology would suggest, its usage is Relatively Recent and as such its definition is Not entirely Settled. The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as the “belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races” and the expression of such prejudice,[16][17] while the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines it as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority or inferiority of a particular racial group, and alternatively that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.[18] The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."​

So while I don't think you poached the definitions from Wiki's citation of them.. (2 of 3 are in there)
It's clear that the definition is NOT clear/unsettled.
And so many people liked it too.
Too bad.

ie, the simple idea that races have generally differing characteristics or behavior COULD be called racism without any malice being involved.
sub ie, one COULD be called racist for saying East Africans are better Marathoners due to their lighter build an musculature, lung capacity relative to size.

I understand that some people have varying definitions but that does not mean that racism from individual to individual about one being inferior for some reason or another is not racism.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Racism Towards Whites

My apologies - I had a bad case of brain flatulence. It wasn't Manifest Destiny, but a different 'M.D.' I was thinking of - the Monroe Doctrine. Thanks for (gently) helping me out on that one. So I decided to read a bit more on it, and both doctrines contain facets that support both your contention and my own - it's almost like the political dichotomy of the Second Amendment where both sides respectively see what we each want to see...although we liberals and progressives are of course the ones with the proper understanding of the Second Amendment (couldn't resist:lol.

But there's something else I found (and it feels rather embarrassing to admit I was reading the Wikipedia for this discussion) - but this requires a nod to the Law of Unintended Consequences - 'Manifest Destiny' was misinterpreted by the Germans as an argument for their right to expand within Europe, and was incorporated into Lebensraum....

No problem. eace

 

[opendebate]

Please do.

I will.

Well this can get a lot more complicated so I will try to keep it simple for the sake of discussion.
So lets assume even as nothing more than a social construct race exists. Otherwise this conversation is moot.

Deal

Some liberals try to say any mention of race for any reason is racist. Any anger at any minority community for crime etc is racist. All of this to demonize those that would speak out against it.

I hear you and agree. I think it diminishes the meaning of the word if handed out too easily and it is far to damaging a behavior or attitude to treat so lightly.

I say blacks need to compete on an even playing field and they need to speak English and learn to write resume's etc. Well as a black person, I am painted as an Uncle Tom. If a white person says it, they are simply racist. See how this goes?

I agree with that statement. But if there are obstacles that make the level playing field impossible to achieve as a starting point shouldn't we strive to make things more equitable? I am not suggesting anyone lower the bar, that's insulting, but as you say ..... start from as equal or level a place as is possible.

Poverty has become the real culprit here. I believe that oppression and bigotry played a large part in so many black people ending up living in poverty. And frankly, because it is a fact that powerful white establishment was (and is) responsible for that oppression and bigotry, they now have a responsibility to fix the mess they created. That responsibility has to be shared with the members within the community or it will fail. But since we have the power our role is necessary or efforts will be unsuccessful.

Poverty traps almost everyone in it's grip regardless of race.The resentments, hopelessness, the lack of awareness concerning the value of a good education hold people down and attitudes like this get passed down through generations and ferment hope. Without hope, why try. There are people of every color, who are just lazy and take advantage but I see them as the minority and I would not dream of denying a chance for change to those who would use it because of the few who would abuse it.

I was raised in poverty, I went without food as child more then once. My father was an abusive drunk and college was never mentioned. College was a fantasy way beyond our reach. It's as if they thought we weren't good enough for it. Our horizon held hopes of being married off as soon as possible as the only way out. We were taught that because my parents were to uneducated (not stupid) to know any better. My sisters, all 7 of them, carried the tradition of rage and hopelessness with them into their adults lives because it was what they were taught. The world presented them other options but those bad lessons were so embedded in their thinking that they could not see past them. This is the real problem and it has nothing to do with race in and of itself, however many black people who have generational poverty were brought there and kept there with intent by the white establishment. To me, that fact, changes how it is address within that community.

I do not think you help someone find the confidence and strength to change their life by holding your foot to their neck and yelling at them to make better choices. I think many have no idea what that means or consider it anywhere within their grasp.

I see it more from liberals than conservatives. As we know conservatives have their own demons, like the whole "black racism" issue. On this issue it is however liberals who try very hard to silence and distort what racism truly is, and make it about politics and PC rather than trying to really look at the true face of the problem to address it.

What is the true face of the problem?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I hear you and agree. I think it diminishes the meaning of the word if handed out too easily and it is far to damaging a behavior or attitude to treat so lightly.

lol ...

 

[mbig]

What is the true face of the problem?

Some Quotes from an interview with Shelby Steele on the publication of his book "White Guilt". (Steele is Black/Conservative)

"Political correctness is an outgrowth of White Guilt. It’s a way for guilty-feeling whites to Constantly Indicate that they’re not racist, not colonialists, not imperialists, not warmongers, and so on."

"White guilt, which I think Defines Liberalism, is a response to the stigma that white Americans bear for practicing racism for four centuries. Whites live with this constant pressure of having to demonstrate to the world that they’re not bigots, and this manifests itself in many facets of American life."

"I’ll give you my bottom line: We’ve done worse in freedom than we did in segregation. It’s abominable that we made more advances between 1945 and 1965 than we have since, but it’s the truth."

"No one wants to say the Problem with Black America is a Lack of Responsibility for Ourselves.
If you say that and you’re white, you’re going to be called a racist.
If you say that and you’re black, you’re going to be called an Uncle Tom. But that’s the truth."​

 

[opendebate]

Some Quotes from an interview with Shelby Steele on the publication of his book "White Guilt". (Steele is Black/Conservative)

"Political correctness is an outgrowth of White Guilt. It’s a way for guilty-feeling whites to Constantly Indicate that they’re not racist, not colonialists, not imperialists, not warmongers, and so on."

"White guilt, which I think Defines Liberalism, is a response to the stigma that white Americans bear for practicing racism for four centuries. Whites live with this constant pressure of having to demonstrate to the world that they’re not bigots, and this manifests itself in many facets of American life."

"I’ll give you my bottom line: We’ve done worse in freedom than we did in segregation. It’s abominable that we made more advances between 1945 and 1965 than we have since, but it’s the truth."

"No one wants to say the Problem with Black America is a Lack of Responsibility for Ourselves.
If you say that and you’re white, you’re going to be called a racist.
If you say that and you’re black, you’re going to be called an Uncle Tom. But that’s the truth."​

It's not about guilt. I am guessing, especially since you went there so easily, that it is not possible for you understand this.