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racial Role reversal: Self defense claims that ended in convictions.

Unitedwestand13

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in Trial of George Zimmerman, Who stood accused for causing the death of Trayvon martin, Zimmerman's defense was that he shot and killed Trayvon martin in self defense because he believed his life was in danger because Martin attacked him and was beating him ferociously. Ultamitely the jury found Zimmerman innocent of second degree murder and the lesser charge of manslaughter.

Zimmerman was successfully able to proof he acted in self defense to the jury based on the evidence available, but not everyone seems to think so. Speaking for myself i doubted that the jury would convict Zimmerman on the charge of 2nd degree murder, the evidence available was nowhere near enough to proof him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but i was surprised that the jury found him innocent of manslaughter as well. I am not angry at the verdict, just surprised, but i cannot speak for other people who were upset by the verdict.

Many of the people who are upset claim that Trayvon martins death was motivated by racism. i highly doubt that racism played a part in Trayvon martins death, but i am wondering if Racial bias exists in the judicial system that tried and found the man that Shot trayvon martin innocent.

consider three similar cases where the defendent made a cliam of self defense, but the verdict ended in a conviction instead of a Acquittal.

there is the case of Marrisa alexander, convicted to a 20 year sentence for firing a warning shot into a wall to scare away her attacker.

Woman gets 20 years for firing warning shot

the case of john Mcneil, who was convicted in 2005 to a life sentence for shooting and killing Brian Ebb, he was relesed from prison this February on certain conditions.

John McNeil walks out of Georgia prison - WilsonTimes.com

and finaly there was john h. white, who in 2007 was convicted after he shot and killed a teenager.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/nyregion/28shoot.html?_r=1&

is there a pattern in the race of both the victim and the defendant of each case?
 

mak2

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Unless you are a naval ship, warning shots are stupid and you should be convicted of something.
 

buck

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Woman gets 20 years for firing warning shot

the case of john Mcneil, who was convicted in 2005 to a life sentence for shooting and killing Brian Ebb, he was relesed from prison this February on certain conditions.

John McNeil walks out of Georgia prison - WilsonTimes.com

and finaly there was john h. white, who in 2007 was convicted after he shot and killed a teenager.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/nyregion/28shoot.html?_r=1&

is there a pattern in the race of both the victim and the defendant of each case?
I don't see any relevancy between the cases you quoted and the Zimmerman case. I can just as easily point to whites that had failed self defense claims and ended up in jail.

You would have to find a case similar to the Zimmerman case.. Where the black guy has multiple wounds and had to shoot a white guy/kid with witness statements backing up the SD claim in a state with laws similar to those in FL.
 

CanadaJohn

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I don't know the details of the second or third case you posted, but the first one isn't so simple. While I agree that 20 years for firing shots into a wall is a little severe, the woman in question isn't so innocent. It happens that it involved her husband, someone she knew. Secondly, she ran away from her husband who threatened to hurt her, but rather than seek safety, she went into the garage and got a gun she knew was there. Thirdly, her children were in the home and she fired the gun indescriminately into the wall and while unlikely, it's possible she could have shot an innocent child. Finally, her husband testified against her and claimed he was terrorized and feared for his life.

Now, we can all imagine that this woman had a hard life but when there is a history of abuse and the woman stays, it's hard to claim a "stand-your-ground" defense in such a situation. The main problem with this case is that there is a mandatory minimum sentence of 20yrs, taking away all discretion from the trial judge to give a lesser sentence. Also, and it may sound counter-intuitive, but had the woman shot her husband rather than into the wall she likely would have had a stronger defense because by shooting him she would have proven she really was afraid for her life - by shooting the wall, she just wanted to scare him off.
 

VanceMack

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in Trial of George Zimmerman, Who stood accused for causing the death of Trayvon martin, Zimmerman's defense was that he shot and killed Trayvon martin in self defense because he believed his life was in danger because Martin attacked him and was beating him ferociously. Ultamitely the jury found Zimmerman innocent of second degree murder and the lesser charge of manslaughter.

Zimmerman was successfully able to proof he acted in self defense to the jury based on the evidence available, but not everyone seems to think so. Speaking for myself i doubted that the jury would convict Zimmerman on the charge of 2nd degree murder, the evidence available was nowhere near enough to proof him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but i was surprised that the jury found him innocent of manslaughter as well. I am not angry at the verdict, just surprised, but i cannot speak for other people who were upset by the verdict.

Many of the people who are upset claim that Trayvon martins death was motivated by racism. i highly doubt that racism played a part in Trayvon martins death, but i am wondering if Racial bias exists in the judicial system that tried and found the man that Shot trayvon martin innocent.

consider three similar cases where the defendent made a cliam of self defense, but the verdict ended in a conviction instead of a Acquittal.

there is the case of Marrisa alexander, convicted to a 20 year sentence for firing a warning shot into a wall to scare away her attacker.

Woman gets 20 years for firing warning shot

the case of john Mcneil, who was convicted in 2005 to a life sentence for shooting and killing Brian Ebb, he was relesed from prison this February on certain conditions.

John McNeil walks out of Georgia prison - WilsonTimes.com

and finaly there was john h. white, who in 2007 was convicted after he shot and killed a teenager.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/nyregion/28shoot.html?_r=1&

is there a pattern in the race of both the victim and the defendant of each case?
Umm...in the first case cited, the defendent went to her ex husbands house, an argument ensued, she LEFT THE HOUSE, went to her vehicle, got her gun and then went BACK INTO THE HOUSE.

Geeeeeezus...if you are going to make a lame ass comparison to try and prove a lame ass point at LEAST make the comparison relevant.
 

Unitedwestand13

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I don't know the details of the second or third case you posted, but the first one isn't so simple. While I agree that 20 years for firing shots into a wall is a little severe, the woman in question isn't so innocent. It happens that it involved her husband, someone she knew. Secondly, she ran away from her husband who threatened to hurt her, but rather than seek safety, she went into the garage and got a gun she knew was there. Thirdly, her children were in the home and she fired the gun indescriminately into the wall and while unlikely, it's possible she could have shot an innocent child. Finally, her husband testified against her and claimed he was terrorized and feared for his life.

Now, we can all imagine that this woman had a hard life but when there is a history of abuse and the woman stays, it's hard to claim a "stand-your-ground" defense in such a situation. The main problem with this case is that there is a mandatory minimum sentence of 20yrs, taking away all discretion from the trial judge to give a lesser sentence. Also, and it may sound counter-intuitive, but had the woman shot her husband rather than into the wall she likely would have had a stronger defense because by shooting him she would have proven she really was afraid for her life - by shooting the wall, she just wanted to scare him off.
but didn't the wife also acted because she feared for her life?

but you do raise a fair point, she was not actually hurt by her husband and she was the one using a gun to a fire a warning shot, which could have inadvertantly harmed her family.
 

CanadaJohn

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but didn't the wife also acted because she feared for her life?

but you do raise a fair point, she was not actually hurt by her husband and she was the one using a gun to a fire a warning shot, which could have inadvertantly harmed her family.
She may have feared for her life - she did claim that he abused her - and her husband was quoted as saying that he had several baby mommas and he hit all of them but one - but at trial he told a different story. It's possible that she didn't have very good legal representation which is likely the biggest problem in western judicial systems - not the inequality of application of the law but the inequality of defense against charges.

I could be wrong, but I don't think stand-your-ground is designed for such instances - it's more for home invasions or muggings etc., not domestic disputes.
 

Dr. Chuckles

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It's possible that she didn't have very good legal representation which is likely the biggest problem in western judicial systems - not the inequality of application of the law but the inequality of defense against charges.
Indeed. growing up poor white trash I can attest to the fact my right were often abused based on nothing more than knowing that I couldn't afford effective legal representation, not only to sue the police for such abuse, but also to defend myself against any potential charges. being a minor, and having any case handled outside the jury system, only magnified this
 

Wehrwolfen

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in Trial of George Zimmerman, Who stood accused for causing the death of Trayvon martin, Zimmerman's defense was that he shot and killed Trayvon martin in self defense because he believed his life was in danger because Martin attacked him and was beating him ferociously. Ultamitely the jury found Zimmerman innocent of second degree murder and the lesser charge of manslaughter.

Zimmerman was successfully able to proof he acted in self defense to the jury based on the evidence available, but not everyone seems to think so. Speaking for myself i doubted that the jury would convict Zimmerman on the charge of 2nd degree murder, the evidence available was nowhere near enough to proof him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but i was surprised that the jury found him innocent of manslaughter as well. I am not angry at the verdict, just surprised, but i cannot speak for other people who were upset by the verdict.

Many of the people who are upset claim that Trayvon martins death was motivated by racism. i highly doubt that racism played a part in Trayvon martins death, but i am wondering if Racial bias exists in the judicial system that tried and found the man that Shot trayvon martin innocent.

consider three similar cases where the defendent made a cliam of self defense, but the verdict ended in a conviction instead of a Acquittal.

there is the case of Marrisa alexander, convicted to a 20 year sentence for firing a warning shot into a wall to scare away her attacker.

Woman gets 20 years for firing warning shot

the case of john Mcneil, who was convicted in 2005 to a life sentence for shooting and killing Brian Ebb, he was relesed from prison this February on certain conditions.

John McNeil walks out of Georgia prison - WilsonTimes.com

and finaly there was john h. white, who in 2007 was convicted after he shot and killed a teenager.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/nyregion/28shoot.html?_r=1&

is there a pattern in the race of both the victim and the defendant of each case?

Bernhard Goetz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz
Bernhard Hugo Goetz (born November 7, 1947) shot four young men who he said were trying to mug him on a New York City Subway train, resulting in his conviction for ...
 

soccerboy22

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Well for Marissa Alexander, once she left she had her opportunity to escape, but chose not to. I mean if the scumbag husband wasn't letting the kids leave then maybe she might have a better defense, but the article doesn't say that. It seems more from that article the 10-20-life law is a bit harsh and circumstances should allow a sentencing to be reduced.
 
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