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Rachel Maddow's coverage of the Alec Baldwin movie gun tragedy

You're right about that possibly creating some liability. But I'm not sure how much, when he was told the gun was 'cold'. The rules are not to point it at anyone, but I wonder how much liability that will create. What seems stranger to me is, why was he aiming and shooting it at production staff?
I think it depends on if the victims just happened to fall prey to the gods will and were in the wrong place wrong time for either a rehearsal or shooting of scene. Or if it can be proven Baldwin was horsing around taking for granted it was a prop gun and ignored some simple safety protocols. Regardless if it was assumed to be a prop and harmless if Baldwin pointed and fired for no good reason then he would be liable IMO.
 
It's not just Maddow. The Daily Mail reported on the crew walking off and etc. yesterday. As for Baldwin, he is one of several producers of the film, and they may be held collectively liable.
I hope that criminal charges of involuntary manslaughter are filed. There are very few accidents when firearms are involved. He got sloppy and she paid for it.
 
Will AB be forced to take leave without pay?
 
He violated an important protocol, which is not to point a gun, prop or otherwise, directly at someone.
Do you know what happened? Why Baldwin pointed the gun at Hutchins?
But for that violation, she would be alive.
Wrong. The armorer had the primary responsibility for ensuring the firearm was safe.

An assistant director handed Alec Baldwin a prop firearm and yelled "cold gun" before the actor fired the weapon, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza, according to a court document.
 
Who brought the bullet to work? Can finger prints be made available?
 
From the Daily Mail:

The 24-year-old armorer who worked on Rust gave a child actress a gun without checking it on a previous film set, two production sources who worked with her said.

The two sources told The Daily Beast that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed had allegedly given an 11-year-old actress a gun without checking it properly while on the set of the Nicholas Cage film, The Old Way.

'There were a couple times she was loading the blanks and doing it in a fashion that we thought was unsafe,' one of the sources said.

...A search warrant released Friday said that Gutierrez-Reed laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Alec Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...gave-gun-11-year-old-actress-sources-say.html

The article quotes a set source that says Assistant Director Hall was the last line of defense and also provides details on why the union crew walked off (motel arrangements) and how they were replaced by locals about whom little information is currently known.
 
Baldwin was a producer of the movie, so he does have responsibility for the conditions on the set.

Maddow implies that non-union workers may have had a role in this, as they apparently took over after the union folks were ordered off.

But these two were shot with a real bullet. Why would anyone bring a real bullet along with what is to be a prop gun?

Apparently the armorer who supplied the prop "wasn't sure" she was experienced enough to take on a movie job...
 
I've read it's a criminal investigation by the sheriff's office. Homicide detectives and so on.

Actors and movie makers alike have their lawyers but how many have criminal lawyers, or would admit to having criminal lawyers.

It could come to nothing criminal of course but it could seem almost everyone is focused on possible civil charges, which may ensue either way. Nor have I seen or heard anything of any lawyers at this point....
 
Or if it can be proven Baldwin was horsing around taking for granted it was a prop gun and ignored some simple safety protocols. Regardless if it was assumed to be a prop and harmless if Baldwin pointed and fired for no good reason then he would be liable IMO.
Another factor could be whether Baldwin owns a gun, guns, or ever owned any firearms.

I'd guess not but that's a guess based on his political views in general.

Still if AB has any familiarity with guns and firing guns that would assign a certain knowledge and experience to him, ie, to know better than to do what he did do. Whereas people such as myself who owns a single handgun have a respect of the firearm, people who have rarely seen a real handgun either won't go near it or will play with it.
 
Another factor could be whether Baldwin owns a gun, guns, or ever owned any firearms.

I'd guess not but that's a guess based on his political views in general.

Still if AB has any familiarity with guns and firing guns that would assign a certain knowledge and experience to him, ie, to know better than to do what he did do. Whereas people such as myself who owns a single handgun have a respect of the firearm, people who have rarely seen a real handgun either won't go near it or will play with it.
In the totality of the John Wick franchise, Keanu Reeves pointed a firearm at a person more than 600 times. Its pretty safe to assume that he wasn't the one loading the prop at any time during filming, and as such, was trusting that those whose job it is to keep that situation safe had done so.

We aren't talking about real life where its prudent to assume firearms are always loaded. In this world, when someone tells you "cold gun", one should have the ability to trust that that is true.

Baldwin "pointing the gun" at someone was probably an inevitability, as its assumable that he was going to be shooting at someone in the scene. As the victim was the director of photography, depending on the viewpoint they were trying to achieve, she could have very well been in the line of fire.
 
In the totality of the John Wick franchise, Keanu Reeves pointed a firearm at a person more than 600 times. Its pretty safe to assume that he wasn't the one loading the prop at any time during filming, and as such, was trusting that those whose job it is to keep that situation safe had done so.

We aren't talking about real life where its prudent to assume firearms are always loaded. In this world, when someone tells you "cold gun", one should have the ability to trust that that is true.

Baldwin "pointing the gun" at someone was probably an inevitability, as its assumable that he was going to be shooting at someone in the scene. As the victim was the director of photography, depending on the viewpoint they were trying to achieve, she could have very well been in the line of fire.
The trust factor is true indeed yet I'd be sure the homicide detectives of the sheriff's office are investigating this too.

We get this piecemeal as do the homicide detectives who are conducting a criminal investigation so it's on the sheriff's detectives to create a picture of the whole. As I'd posted in scrolling, this may come to nothing yet I wonder who it was AB was aiming at as called for in the script. Or whether AB should have been actually aiming at any person.

The DA with its state investigators have entered the case as has the New Mexico Department of Health and Occupational Safety. The question for the DA concerning whether criminal charges are concerned is whether a prop gun on a movie set can be considered a "deadly weapon." The DA says "it can be" under certain circumstances so the DA's office will continue to "assist the sheriff" in their potential homicide investigation.

"To further their probe, the Santa Fe Sheriff’s Office want all possible footage, production computer equipment, memory and other digital cards, all weapons (real and prop), all weapon ownership documents, cell phones and smartphones of crew and cast that may have captured footage and photos of the location."


In the thousands of movies over scores of years that have had guns this is the third instance of someone being shot by a prop gun. It could sound to me like someone needs to go to jail on one or another criminal charge yet it's up to the investigators and prosecutor to figure out whether that may be the case.
 
I hope that criminal charges of involuntary manslaughter are filed. There are very few accidents when firearms are involved. He got sloppy and she paid for it.
There have been several studies on the frequency and nature of firearm accidents. Here's the conclusion of one of them:

"This study provides valuable information about the actual number and circumstances of unintentional firearm deaths in the United States. Unintentional shootings kill approximately 430 Americans every year and almost all these tragic deaths are preventable. Victims span the age spectrum but are most likely to be older children, teens and young adults (ages 10 to 29), and the vast majority of both victims and shooters are male. Understanding the various circumstances that lead to unintentional fatalities is an essential step to address the problem. Consuming alcohol, playing with the gun, and hunting, are common settings for these deaths. Firearm safety instructors, firearm manufacturers, and firearm owners can all contribute to reducing the death toll."



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Baldwin was a producer of the movie, so he does have responsibility for the conditions on the set.

Maddow implies that non-union workers may have had a role in this, as they apparently took over after the union folks were ordered off.

But these two were shot with a real bullet. Why would anyone bring a real bullet along with what is to be a prop gun?

Yeah, that's the $64,000 question.....where and who brought a real live bullet on a movie set? Baldwin have enemies on the set, setting him up or what? Hopefully they will investigate this fully for more insight and facts.
 
You're right about that possibly creating some liability. But I'm not sure how much, when he was told the gun was 'cold'. The rules are not to point it at anyone, but I wonder how much liability that will create. What seems stranger to me is, why was he aiming and shooting it at production staff?

Okay, let's look at it from this angle.

Even if there were legit circumstances where Alec were allowed to point a firearm, real or fake, at an actor, note that...........

she was NOT an actor. So, it begs the question:

What business did he have pointing the gun at her, anyway?

So, doing a but for.......


'But for a violation of protocol, she would still be alive...."

Therefore, his contribution to the wrongful death is equal to that of the amorer/prop master, including the producer for hiring someone with a known bad history.

If I were a lawyer for the party suing for wrongful death, I would therefore put, Alec, the amorer/propmaster, and the producer(s) as defendents on the suit.

Wouldn't you if you were a lawyer?
 
I think it depends on if the victims just happened to fall prey to the gods will and were in the wrong place wrong time for either a rehearsal or shooting of scene. Or if it can be proven Baldwin was horsing around taking for granted it was a prop gun and ignored some simple safety protocols. Regardless if it was assumed to be a prop and harmless if Baldwin pointed and fired for no good reason then he would be liable IMO.

What business did Baldwin have aiming a firearm at a non actor?

He shares equality with the producers and propmaster in liability. There just isn't anyway around it, as I see it.
 
There was more than one "important protocol" violated in that incident. Any one of them would have prevented that death.

Do a series of 'but fors'. There are a number of them. However, there is the final one in the causality chain that is all important, the final one is the one that had the last hope of saving her life, and that is the protocol violated by Alec.
 
Not sure that "protocol" exists in the movie making business. Every scene with someone pointing a gun straight at the viewer, has at least a cameraman in the gun's sights.

Protocols do exist in the business. No one is supposed to have a gun pointed directly at them. When it is pointed at the camera, the operator removes himself from behind the camera for that shot.
 
Do a series of 'but fors'. There are a number of them. However, there is the final one in the causality chain that is all important, the final one is the one that had the last hope of saving her life, and that is the protocol violated by Alec.
LOL Are you claiming that no one ever points a prop gun at a person while shooting a movie? You must not go to many movies or ever watched the "Trailer Park Boys" series.
In a chain of events it is hard to blame only one. Especially when the ass. director specifically yelled "cold gun" when he handed it to Alec. If I could choose the prime progenitor of the tragedy it would be him. He didn't check the gun before that statement and that is unforgivable and apparently it is not even the first time he was the cause of injury on a movie set.

The assistant director, who was unnamed in an account of the affidavit published by The New York Times, picked up a prop pistol from a cart and gave it to Baldwin, yelling “Cold gun!”
The term indicated the gun does not contain any “live” rounds, including blanks, and was safe to use around nearby crew.


https://www.thewrap.com/rust-assist...ed-in-fatal-shooting-sheriffs-affidavit-says/

SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — The assistant director who handed Alec Baldwin the gun that killed a cinematographer last week had been fired from a previous job after a gun went off on a set and wounded a member of the film crew, a producer said Monday.

https://apnews.com/article/prop-gun...tings-movies-4ffe0087524c8d61c1701fb62cb95219
 
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