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"Race Relations" and "Race war"

All it requires is a belief that political strategists think their rhetoric and machinations work - and that is an indisputable fact.

Is that why republicans, who repeatedly claim that businesses are hurt by govt regulations, also constantly call for new regulations? Does it explain why republicans are constantly passing laws that restrict christians? Why they consistently vote to raise taxes?

Why is it that the only time some people argue that a political party has an unspoken policy of harming one of its' constituencies is when that constituency is black?
 
It's because blacks have been treated differently. And as I've already answered, there is no advantage for Dems to perpetuate that treatment unless one thinks that black people are too stupid to determine their own best interests (a point you haven't addressed) .

Isn't that the reason we have affirmative action and a welfare state? Blacks are too stupid to compete with whites without government help.
 
This post is inspired by somethign I read last night that about 99.9% of people were making fun of. It was a thread that opened up based on the false statement of "Now that we are at the start of race wars" The vast majority of posters just laughed at this nonsense and most said thats where they stopped reading and rightly so. LOL

Anyway Race Relations in this country are better than they have ever been in the couple decades i've been on this planet and they are better than they have ever been in the history of the nation.

in REALITY, NORMAL, EVERYDAY people have less issues with race than ever before. Its amazing and inspiring really.
Actually equal rights and protecting the rights of others along the issues of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation etc is better than its ever been before and thats also amazing.

Normal everyday people mostly dont care at all about that stuff, far more than when i was younger and vastly less than before my time, thats a fact. Its all hype and fluff.

But in a way that is also the issue.



Because equal rights is spreading, and spreading fast on many matters its driving the nutters in sane. Issues like race, gender, sexual orientation and religion etc are less volatile than they have ever been and the nutters are losing their minds.

Only the people that always had a problem with that stuff still do and now its even a bigger issue because they know they are losing.
Its only the nutters losing their minds NOT normal everyday people.

The secondary issue is the MEDIA and how they cover it, hype it and spin it and unfortunately thats how our media is today . . . ratings and sensationalism

The third "fluffer" are nutters from other arguments joining the lunacy, nutters on gun issues, nutters on equal rights (sexual orientation issues), nutters on immigration, nutters against obama, partisan nutters in general and nutters against muslims all spin this issue and try to make them relate. see the shooting of the night club. Was it about gay hate, muslim hate of gays, letting muslims into the country, a gun issue, an obama and divisive issue etc etc So many had their own little nonsensical spin on it. Same with the shooting in texas, its race, its the cops, its about guns, its about lefties, its about righties, its about divisive obama, its about a police state etc etc Watching this circus is hilarious and sad at the same time. Watching those get so emotional and spiral nonsensically out of control, sadly there will probably be at least one poster here that does it.

The fourth fluffer are the people that actually find themselves buying into the hype and spreading it based on one angle or another. I know sometimes thats hard, we have probably all been victim to hype on one issue or another but that's what it is, hype.


so between the nutters, the media, the people that buy their false narrative and hype it SEEMS like there is some issue that is manufactured to appear much larger that it is. Its hyped to seem like its NEW and BIGGER but the reality is its smaller and better than ever on avg. :shrug:

Good luck to the minority living in or giving life to the hype. Ill be living in reality where race relations and other relations (gender, religion, sexual orientation etc) are the best they have ever been in my lifetime and in the history of the country.

Stick together people and don't buy the hype. Block it out and do what you can to prove the nutters and those who buy it wrong. If not, unfortunately you are part of the problem and helping the hyperbole.

So turning a blind eye to problems that seem to be rising from the dead is your recommendation on the best approach to solve them?
 
It's because blacks have been treated differently. And as I've already answered, there is no advantage for Dems to perpetuate that treatment unless one thinks that black people are too stupid to determine their own best interests (a point you haven't addressed)

I would not say that black people are "too stupid" to determine their own best interests any more than I'd say that working class Tea Party fans are :roll: But if you don't want to talk about Democrat political strategy, and instead are determined to talk about black people's intelligence, do you have any information about their average IQ in mind? Are you honestly suggesting that black people are voting Democrat in 2016 because of Jim Crow laws fifty years ago?
 
Is that why republicans, who repeatedly claim that businesses are hurt by govt regulations, also constantly call for new regulations? Does it explain why republicans are constantly passing laws that restrict christians? Why they consistently vote to raise taxes?

Why is it that the only time some people argue that a political party has an unspoken policy of harming one of its' constituencies is when that constituency is black?

I specifically mentioned far-right/Tea Party vs. their working class supporters in the very post you responded to. Try taking off the blinkers :lol:
 
I would not say that black people are "too stupid" to determine their own best interests any more than I'd say that working class Tea Party fans are :roll: But if you don't want to talk about Democrat political strategy, and instead are determined to talk about black people's intelligence, do you have any information about their average IQ in mind? Are you honestly suggesting that black people are voting Democrat in 2016 because of Jim Crow laws fifty years ago?

So if black people are intelligent enough to determine their best interests, then the fact that they vote overwhelmingly for dems can only be explained by how the dems do act in their best interests.

And I am willing to talk about dem strategy, but if we're going to speculate about that we will have to examine the implicit assumptions of those speculations. The only way a dem strategy of keeping blacks down can result in black people continuing to vote dem is if those black people are too stupid to understand where their best interests lie. If you're going to argue that, I don't have to provide you any evidence to refute it; The burden is on *you* to back up your claim and its' associated implication.

PS - I said nothing about the different treatment of blacks other to state that it exists. Where you got the idea that I was limiting that to Jim Crow is something I can neither explain nor understand
 
I specifically mentioned far-right/Tea Party vs. their working class supporters in the very post you responded to. Try taking off the blinkers :lol:

The repubs who get Tea Party support *do* support policies (ie small govt, low taxes, etc) which Tea Party members support. And even in the cases when a repub with TP support votes in opposition to those policies, that's a far cry from showing they did so in a deliberate effort to keep tea party members down in order to retain their support. Furthermore, recent events show how foolish that policy would be because the TP was formed in frustration over the perceived failure of the GOP to accomplish their stated goals.
 
1.)Pretty sure that was rhetorical hyperbole. Kind of like the accusations we've all seen about a supposed R-team "war on women." LOL

From just two explicitly race-related incidents in your country in the past 13 months (Charlestown and Dallas) there've been 14 deaths, I believe? Some people in the BLM movement would declare that there've been literally scores if not hundreds of deaths related to race each year. A number of people hurled scorn and ridicule due to a single off-handed comment in a non-partisan and otherwise thought-provoking OP. I wonder how many of those same people have passed without comment, or even themselves used or cheered the hyper-partisan "war on women" rhetoric?


2.)Is that how social progress and tolerance works, in your view? Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a nutter?
3.)I'm about as 'progressive' as they come, and yet I have conservative Christian relatives who I love and respect. I am able to recognise and accept that different people have had different educations, life experiences and value systems.
4.) intolerant people like you
5.) - or at least, like you are coming across in this post - give liberals and progressives a bad name.
6.)Why are you ignoring the biggest and most obvious players in all this? Something like 90% of African American voters support the D-team, don't they? Vastly more than any other ethnic group, anyways. Is that because black people are just inherently different from other American citizens, do you suppose? Or are there some socio-economic circumstances or political perspectives which motivate that level of support; and if so, is it not clearly and obviously the case that the D-team has a vested interest in perpetuating those circumstances or perspectives?
7.)And yet in that other thread you've mentioned it seemed evident that posters were forced to go back over twenty years to find an example (LA riots) comparable to all the unrest since the Fergusson riots and growth of the Black Lives Matter movement.
8.(If you think that there are 'nutters' upset at how fast things are changing - which is certainly true - are you also willing to acknowledge that there are other nutters upset to find that there weren't dramatic visible improvements within the first few years of having a black President?
9.)Presumably you will agree that the pace of social change will never suit everyone's ideal; and presumably you will also agree that those who want it to progress faster can be just as vitriolic and even violent as those who wish it were slower?

1.) don't know, dont care and nutters are nutters has I already pointed out. Try to stay on topic with less strawmen
2.) who said that? oh thats right, nobody LMAO another strawman
3.) Im christian too :shrug: and yet ANOTHER strawman.
4.) WHere am i intolerant? LMAO
5.) ooooh and there you have it. VERY telling. You say im intolerant but yet say Im giving liberals/progressives a bad name? WOW talk about showing your hand. What do those groups have to do with me? Nothing since I dont belong to those groups. and yet ANOTHER strawman
6.) BOOM and another strawman, remind us all what the percentage of blacks voting for what party has to do with the fact there is no race war coming? oh again thats right . . NOTHING
7.) another strawman meaningless to the topic.
8.) see #7
9.) of course thats true, weird how you assume that ANYTHING in my post was one sided. There are nutters on both sides but thank you also for showing the hype and fluff and exactly what the problem is. You provided EXCELLENT made factually untrue assumptions and provided basically nothign. 98% of your post was basically strawmen and non related ranting. Your mistake is easy to fic though, next time try to be objective, not make biased assumption that cause strawman after a strawman to fail. SImply ask questions to save your post from failing so bad. You're welcome. Please Let me know if theres anything else I can help you with.
 
So turning a blind eye to problems that seem to be rising from the dead is your recommendation on the best approach to solve them?

Who said that? thats right NOBODY LMAO (see more fluff and hype in form of a dramatic hyperbolic strawman)
What "problems"
the op is stating the fact that statements like "now that the race wars have started" are nonsensical and it also talks to the reality things are actually better than they have been in my lifetime.
 
Who said that? thats right NOBODY LMAO (see more fluff and hype in form of a dramatic hyperbolic strawman)
What "problems"
the op is stating the fact that statements like "now that the race wars have started" are nonsensical and it also talks to the reality things are actually better than they have been in my lifetime.

That is exactly the way I feel.

That is why recent events have caused me concern.

I have seen how much worse it could be and am wary of the current moves in a less peaceful direction.
 
1.)That is exactly the way I feel.
2.)That is why recent events have caused me concern.
3.)I have seen how much worse it could be and am wary of the current moves in a less peaceful direction.

1.) so again , ill ask you. who said turn a blind eye to anything? did I say that or not?
2.) "concern" of course. does it equate to a race war or things going backwards, of course not
3.) me too thats how I know the "current moves" arent doing anything to move us in any large negative direction
 
1.) so again , ill ask you. who said turn a blind eye to anything? did I say that or not?
2.) "concern" of course. does it equate to a race war or things going backwards, of course not
3.) me too thats how I know the "current moves" arent doing anything to move us in any large negative direction

To me, what is happening right now is cause for concern. It is a departure from the relative calm that has ruled discourse for a couple decades.

The count of dead and injured rising directly from this particular issue is still on the short side of 100 over the last several days.

There are two political conventions about to start that will almost certainly provide a great venue for bad things to occur.

The post that made you laugh that you chose to stop reading bemoaned the fact that things have taken a bad turn recently and that there are bad things intruding into my life as a result. This may not be a "large" move in a bad direction, but it is a move. Maybe the worst stuff was all already there and recent events have only brought things into clearer focus or made them bubble to the surface.

A society that has ghettos where crime and criminals run rampant is not a good thing. Public services ranging from schools to ready access to all services that are different based on location within a city or state or country is not a good thing. Individuals made angry by the injustice they perceive is not a good thing. Mobs exhorting any who listen to kill cops is not a good thing. Cops getting killed as a result is not a good thing. Cops being so nervous that they kill the innocent is not a good thing.

There is a horrible prospect in all of this and saying that things are as good as they've ever been does not diminish the possibility of disaster or the presence of huge and growing problems.

This may be the best of all possible worlds and, then again, it may need some improvement.
 
To me, what is happening right now is cause for concern. It is a departure from the relative calm that has ruled discourse for a couple decades.

The count of dead and injured rising directly from this particular issue is still on the short side of 100 over the last several days.

There are two political conventions about to start that will almost certainly provide a great venue for bad things to occur.

The post that made you laugh that you chose to stop reading bemoaned the fact that things have taken a bad turn recently and that there are bad things intruding into my life as a result. This may not be a "large" move in a bad direction, but it is a move. Maybe the worst stuff was all already there and recent events have only brought things into clearer focus or made them bubble to the surface.

A society that has ghettos where crime and criminals run rampant is not a good thing. Public services ranging from schools to ready access to all services that are different based on location within a city or state or country is not a good thing. Individuals made angry by the injustice they perceive is not a good thing. Mobs exhorting any who listen to kill cops is not a good thing. Cops getting killed as a result is not a good thing. Cops being so nervous that they kill the innocent is not a good thing.

There is a horrible prospect in all of this and saying that things are as good as they've ever been does not diminish the possibility of disaster or the presence of huge and growing problems.

This may be the best of all possible worlds and, then again, it may need some improvement.

again, concern? Yes. Of course like many many things going on in the country "concern" is rational and logic

saying the race wars have begun is NOT rational and logical and is laughably asinine.

and there was no "post" that made me laugh out loud, what made me and many many other posters laugh out loud was your retarded and factually wrong statement "now that race wars have started"

Concern is fine, your statement is pure dishonesty and the rest of your strawmen are meaningless. Can you point out where anybody in this thread said " things are as good as they've ever been so that diminishes the possibility of disaster or the presence of huge and growing problems." .. NOBODY said that LMAO . . thank you AGAIN for another perfect example of illogical, dishonest and hyperbolic fluff and hype! You keep helping my OP's point more and more. :popcorn2:
 
again, concern? Yes. Of course like many many things going on in the country "concern" is rational and logic

saying the race wars have begun is NOT rational and logical and is laughably asinine.

and there was no "post" that made me laugh out loud, what made me and many many other posters laugh out loud was your retarded and factually wrong statement "now that race wars have started"

Concern is fine, your statement is pure dishonesty and the rest of your strawmen are meaningless. Can you point out where anybody in this thread said " things are as good as they've ever been so that diminishes the possibility of disaster or the presence of huge and growing problems." .. NOBODY said that LMAO . . thank you AGAIN for another perfect example of illogical, dishonest and hyperbolic fluff and hype! You keep helping my OP's point more and more. :popcorn2:

As you like it.
 
As you like it.


Translation: you cant show where anybody said what you claimed or support your dishonest statement of "now that the race wars have begun"
we already knew that already

also its not about "me" or what I like its boat facts and reality, so let us know when you can support your claims. Thanks
 
Translation: you cant show where anybody said what you claimed or support your dishonest statement of "now that the race wars have begun"
we already knew that already

also its not about "me" or what I like its boat facts and reality, so let us know when you can support your claims. Thanks

I appreciate your poor attempt to translate.

The quote is incorrect, both in the actual words you erroneously put in quotes and in the meaning they were meant to carry.

You seem to be putting forth a great deal of effort to ignore the message I was trying to write. I assume that this is intentional.

When is it best to try to make things better when you can see that they are not quite right?

Shakespeare said, "Better three hours too soon than a minute too late." This can apply in many situations.
 
1.)I appreciate your poor attempt to translate.
2.)The quote is incorrect, both in the actual words you erroneously put in quotes and in the meaning they were meant to carry.
3.)You seem to be putting forth a great deal of effort to ignore the message I was trying to write. I assume that this is intentional.
4.) When is it best to try to make things better when you can see that they are not quite right?
5.)Shakespeare said, "Better three hours too soon than a minute too late." This can apply in many situations.

1.) if its inaccurate than PLEASE PLEASe post FACTS that support you two factually false claims. We'd love to read them LMAO Come on proof i said what you claimed :)
2.) now its not, its what you claimed you posting more lies wont help your failed claims
3.) and another failed strawman and lie, nothign was ignore its simply invalid and does not change the fact that your statements are factually wrong and strawmen :shrug: But its awesome you keep proving the OP right, I LOVE IT!
4.) another strawman. How does the question support your false claim rave wars have begun or the lie you claimed that i said "things are as good as they've ever been so that diminishes the possibility of disaster or the presence of huge and growing problems." Your strawman fails again LMAO


Fact remains your statement cant be support with anything honest and factual nor can your strawmen. lets us know when that changes
:popcorn2:
 
So if black people are intelligent enough to determine their best interests, then the fact that they vote overwhelmingly for dems can only be explained by how the dems do act in their best interests.

And I am willing to talk about dem strategy, but if we're going to speculate about that we will have to examine the implicit assumptions of those speculations. The only way a dem strategy of keeping blacks down can result in black people continuing to vote dem is if those black people are too stupid to understand where their best interests lie.

You're displaying a remarkable level of political naivete I'm afraid, and more worrying is the fact that you seem to put on those goggles only in this particular case. In your earlier post you said:


Is that why republicans, who repeatedly claim that businesses are hurt by govt regulations, also constantly call for new regulations? Does it explain why republicans are constantly passing laws that restrict christians? Why they consistently vote to raise taxes?​

Here you display a recognition both that political rhetoric doesn't always match policy implementation, and that voters' perceptions are not always thoroughly informed by extensive research. Yet as soon as it comes to Democrat strategy vis a vis black voters, you instantly insisted that either the policies must be in their best interests or black people are just plain dumb. Is this because of your views of black people, or the Democrat party?

PS - I said nothing about the different treatment of blacks other to state that it exists. Where you got the idea that I was limiting that to Jim Crow is something I can neither explain nor understand

Some limited affirmative action policies aside, the 1960s was the most recent period in which African Americans were subject to different policies than European Americans, wasn't it?

If you want to talk about concepts such as white privilege or systemic bias, for all but keen researchers those are nebulous concepts amounting to nothing more than perspective - and thus very susceptible to manipulation. How would you (let alone the average bloke on the street) tease out the effects of poverty, poorer education, 'gangsta' culture and higher crime rates in order to isolate some clearly identifiable systemic bias?

Regardless of whether or not such different treatment exists (and it's hard to say, since you haven't explained), if that's the reason for the wildly disproportionate black support of the Democrats then it is clearly and unambiguously in the Democrats' political interests to foster that perception. I can't see how you're even disputing this, beyond whatever it is that motivates the double standard noted above.
 
1.) don't know, dont care and nutters are nutters has I already pointed out. Try to stay on topic with less strawmen

The entire point of your thread is that there is no 'race war.' It is entirely relevant to point out that this kind of hyperbolic rhetoric - war on women, war on drugs, war on terror, war on poverty, war on Christmas - is utterly ubiquitous to American political discourse. In fact it's often central to the major parties' narrative of the year, whereas in the example which aroused your ire so much it was nothing more than a throwaway line in a non-partisan and otherwise thought-provoking OP.

7.) another strawman meaningless to the topic.
8.) see #7

Your entire argument is that things in 2016 are better than they've ever been. Yet it seems to be the case that in order to prove that, critics need to go back over two decades to find incidents comparable to the unrest since the Ferguson riots and rise of the Black Lives Matter movement. If that level of unrest did not exist five or ten years ago, then it's really not true that things are better than they've ever been. That's hardly a strawman, it's a direct response to your entire argument. Maybe it's wrong, but the fact that you've instead tried to pass it off as a strawman implies that you are unable to show it's incorrect.

Furthermore, I pointed out what is possibly a big part of the reason why things may have heated up lately: That the pace of progress following the election of a black President may not be as fast as some folk hoped for or expected. Your OP focuses exclusively and viciously on people who wish the pace of change were slower, attacking and mocking them as "nutters." It's certainly true that some conservative folk have stepped up their divisive rhetoric, reactionary tendencies and in some cases violence in recent years. However it is misleading at best for you to ignore the other side of the equation, the agitation and sometimes violence of people who wish the pace of change were faster.

What term springs to mind for two groups in strenuous and sometimes violent opposition to each other, given the context of American political discourse?



My apologies for thinking that you were liberal or progressive. An assumption based on the one-sided nature of your post, but embarassing nonetheless :3oops:
 
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You're displaying a remarkable level of political naivete I'm afraid, and more worrying is the fact that you seem to put on those goggles only in this particular case. In your earlier post you said:

Is that why republicans, who repeatedly claim that businesses are hurt by govt regulations, also constantly call for new regulations? Does it explain why republicans are constantly passing laws that restrict christians? Why they consistently vote to raise taxes?​

Here you display a recognition both that political rhetoric doesn't always match policy implementation, and that voters' perceptions are not always thoroughly informed by extensive research. Yet as soon as it comes to Democrat strategy vis a vis black voters, you instantly insisted that either the policies must be in their best interests or black people are just plain dumb. Is this because of your views of black people, or the Democrat party?

I guess my sarcasm was a bit too subtle. Republicans don't call for new regulations, higher taxes and laws that restrict christians. When it comes to regulation, taxes and christianity, the republicans rhetorics match their voting records.



Some limited affirmative action policies aside, the 1960s was the most recent period in which African Americans were subject to different policies than European Americans, wasn't it?

If you want to talk about concepts such as white privilege or systemic bias, for all but keen researchers those are nebulous concepts amounting to nothing more than perspective - and thus very susceptible to manipulation. How would you (let alone the average bloke on the street) tease out the effects of poverty, poorer education, 'gangsta' culture and higher crime rates in order to isolate some clearly identifiable systemic bias?

Regardless of whether or not such different treatment exists (and it's hard to say, since you haven't explained), if that's the reason for the wildly disproportionate black support of the Democrats then it is clearly and unambiguously in the Democrats' political interests to foster that perception. I can't see how you're even disputing this, beyond whatever it is that motivates the double standard noted above.

Describing the policies that make the dems more attractive to blacks as being limited to affirmative action is quite short sighted. There's the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, support for social spending (food stamps, Sec 8), opposition to voter fraud laws (which are really designed to disenfranchise black voters), minimum wage laws, support for ACA and Medicaid, for the FHA, Head Start, Environmental justice and on and on.

And they don't make arguments that depend on assumptions that blacks don't know what's good for them or that the discrimination they've experienced is just a figment of their imagination
 
1.)The entire point of your thread is that there is no 'race war.'
2.) It is entirely relevant to point out that this kind of hyperbolic rhetoric - war on women, war on drugs, war on terror, war on poverty, war on Christmas - is utterly ubiquitous to American political discourse. In fact it's often central to the major parties' narrative of the year, whereas in the example which aroused your ire so much it was nothing more than a throwaway line in a non-partisan and otherwise thought-provoking OP.
3.)Your entire argument is that things in 2016 are better than they've ever been. Yet it seems to be the case that in order to prove that, critics need to go back over two decades to find incidents comparable to the unrest since the Ferguson riots and rise of the Black Lives Matter movement. If that level of unrest did not exist five or ten years ago, then it's really not true that things are better than they've ever been. That's hardly a strawman, it's a direct response to your entire argument. Maybe it's wrong, but the fact that you've instead tried to pass it off as a strawman implies that you are unable to show it's incorrect.
4.)Furthermore, I pointed out what is possibly a big part of the reason why things may have heated up lately: That the pace of progress following the election of a black President may not be as fast as some folk hoped for or expected. Your OP focuses exclusively and viciously on people who wish the pace of change were slower, attacking and mocking them as "nutters." It's certainly true that some conservative folk have stepped up their divisive rhetoric, reactionary tendencies and in some cases violence in recent years. However it is misleading at best for you to ignore the other side of the equation, the agitation and sometimes violence of people who wish the pace of change were faster.

What term springs to mind for two groups in strenuous and sometimes violent opposition to each other, given the context of American political discourse?



5.) My apologies for thinking that you were liberal or progressive.
6.) An assumption based on the one-sided nature of your post, but embarassing nonetheless :3oops:

1.) correct I pointed out that fact
2.) no its not, you just identified what my point was and the things you listed have NOTHING to do with it. You literally just proved yourself wrong. WIth or without those things theres no race war. Thanks fopr proving me right and further highlighting the failures of your strawmen.
3.) its not an "argument" with race relations its simply true :shrug: Your subjective made up criteria does not change that. ooops your mistake and another failed strawman. Lets us know when you have MORE that strawmen and further hype and fluff. thanks
4.) wrong again, yes im aware you made that part up in your head but its not what I actually said. Hence again another made up and failed factually dishonest strawman. Nutters are everywhere, notice how i didnt mention a party or age or race etc etc. YOU DID though LMAO boom . . busted. I wonder why YOU mentioned conservatives? I certainly did not. But please continue to make up anything you like so i can continue to laugh at it because with each dishonest strawman and nonsensical assumption you further prove my OP true about hype and fluff :D This is awesome actually!
5.) no problem its just one of like 10 mistakes you made
6.) I agree the assumption you made about the post being one sided could be embarrassing for you, hopefully you can avoid your mistake in the future.
 
I guess my sarcasm was a bit too subtle. Republicans don't call for new regulations, higher taxes and laws that restrict christians. When it comes to regulation, taxes and christianity, the republicans rhetorics match their voting records.

Maybe it was a bit too subtle.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...g-taxes-except-when-they-dont-which-is-often/
Stephen Colbert brings up Ronald Reagan's tax-raising record in Ted Cruz interview | PunditFact
Republicans Are Cutting Taxes on the Rich and Raising Them on the Poor | Mother Jones
Capitalism: Republicans and Regulations

Describing the policies that make the dems more attractive to blacks as being limited to affirmative action is quite short sighted. There's the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, support for social spending (food stamps, Sec 8), opposition to voter fraud laws (which are really designed to disenfranchise black voters), minimum wage laws, support for ACA and Medicaid, for the FHA, Head Start, Environmental justice and on and on.

You said that African Americans support the Democrat party at such wildly disproportionate rates "because blacks have been treated differently." I pointed out that as far as I'm aware in the last fifty years the only policies which specify different treatment between African Americans and European Americans have been some limited affirmative action policies. Is that true? It seems so from your list above, since the only points specifying different treatment are the first two, from the 1960s.

Of the rest, all but one clearly relates to low income or poverty programs, or provide the most benefit to those groups. In fact even problems with voting regulations are possibly experienced mostly along low income and education lines - though that's a different type of animal, purely about politicians angling to admit or exclude demographics based on expected voting patterns. But as for the others, do 90% of voters on food stamps or minimum wage etc. vote Democrat? (Hint; it's more like 60%; site only displays <$50k information after 2000.)

And they don't make arguments that depend on assumptions that blacks don't know what's good for them or that the discrimination they've experienced is just a figment of their imagination

Making an argument which depends on the assumption that most voters are well-informed and thoroughly research their candidates' policies and voting records is impeccable reasoning, I'm sure :roll:

I've clearly said that both of your political parties engage in the same sort of practices, so this obsession with the intelligence of "blacks" is your cross to carry, not mine. To a greater or lesser extent all political parties do the same sort of thing, because that's the nature of the game: Rhetoric, pandering, focusing on target constituents whilst taking 'safe' votes for granted, double-speak, demonizing the opposition, wedge politics, flip-flopping, pragmatism and expediency are all valuable parts of the political toolbox. They're not necessarily all bad all the time, but you seem to be living in a world where they don't even exist!

The African American community as a political constituency must be almost unique in the world in its combination of:
> Being an overwhelmingly 'safe' vote, to be taken for granted whenever there's a more pressing concern
> Having no credible alternative to the R- and D-teams, to dilute loyalty to the Democrats
> Due to American history and current political demographics, being particularly susceptible to demonizing of the R-team and wedge politics
> That being further compounded by their having generally lower education levels than the national norm and (for whatever reason and as you are utterly determined to keep pointing out) lower average IQs

This isn't some kind of conspiracy theory we're talking about here. It's a simple description of political strategy and the kind of approaches used, to a greater or lesser extent, by all parties everywhere. I haven't said or even remotely implied that the Democrats are trying to grind black noses into the dirt, nor that discrimination and racism have not been realities. But it is abundantly clear that there is more than just the low income/poverty policies you listed accounting for the overwhelming black support for the D-team; and it seems equally evident that a big part of the reason is the perception of the R-team as a white or even anti-black party.

And yet you're honestly trying to tell me that you believe there is no incentive there for the D-team to encourage those racial divisions, and present themselves as sympathetic to the black cause?
 

In order to avoid the character limit, I will address each point in an individual post.

The links you provided do not contradict my argument.

1) Regulation - I was specifically talking about business regulations. I even said so. The last article talks about the GOP supporting regulations on food stamps, voting and abortion. The only regs they support that support your argument are the ones relating to Tesla and clean energy. Those regs are meant to protect existing big businesses so I don't see how that fits your argument. It doesn't show that the GOP is promising to protect businesses while secretly working to keep businesses down. It shows the GOP acting to protect businesses

2) Christianity - you have no examples for this one

3) Taxes - The first articles corroborates my argument that republicans want to cut taxes (see the chart from Nover Grotesque). It merely points out that they aren't opposed to all taxes. The 2nd article points out that Reagan raised taxes by eliminating loopholes. This is completely consistent with the GOP's policy of making the tax code simpler - a policy the GOP promotes regularly. The 3rd article notes the GOP's preference for consumption taxes over income taxes - another area where the GOP's rhetoric matches their actions.

Bottom line: You have not shown how these are issues where the GOP says one thing while pursuing policies that have the opposite effect with the secret intent to keep a group down in order to maintain their support by appealing to their desire for fairness
 
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