Quinn demands gun limits in concealed carry law. [W:60]

[Jerry]

Here ya go Jerry.

Neighborhood leaders, anti-crime activists and police officials worry about additional mayhem in Chicago. But other residents, including some who live in Chicago's more violent areas, believe more guns will allow them to defend themselves better.

"We just had a weekend where something like 48 people were shot, seven died," said Otis McDonald, 79, one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit that ended with the U.S. Supreme Court tossing out Chicago's strict gun ban three years ago. "Now law abiding citizens like myself ... can carry them when they want to and not carry them when they don't want to, and the people out there who will do us harm won't know when we got them and when we don't.".

The bill sitting on Quinn's desk is a hard-fought compromise between conservative downstate lawmakers who opposed most gun restrictions and anti-gun lawmakers from Chicago and other urban areas. The legislation requires state police to issue a concealed-carry permit to any gun owner with a state-issued Firearm Owners Identification card, and who passes a background check, pays a $150 fee and undergoes 16 hours of training.

It's not as stringent as concealed carry laws in California, New York and a handful of others states, which give law enforcement authorities more power to deny permits. But it's more restrictive than earlier proposals by gun rights advocates, including one that would have superseded all local gun restrictions. For example, it won't wipe out Chicago and Cook County's ban on assault weapons.

Most significantly for gun control advocates, the legislation does prohibit guns in places like schools, buses, trains, bars and government buildings.

Another concern by Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart is the provision in the bill that calls for law enforcement and prosecutors to object to a governor-appointed panel if they suspect applicants are dangerous. In Cook County, where there are 358,000 registered gun owners, Dart said he's worried gang members and others who shouldn't have guns will slip through the cracks and be granted permits.....snip~


http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-control/164985-chicago-prepares-new-concealed-carry-gun-law.html

You linked to a DP post, which linked to wiki, which talked about gun laws.

I wasn't asking about gun laws.

I was asking for a link to the black comunity itself expressing concerns.

 

[TurtleDude]

You are the last person to talk about honesty after you were just caught in a lie.

what have I lied about? I don't hide the reasons for my position like most of the anti gunners

as I noted, there are two kinds of anti gun advocates

the stupid and ignorant who actually think the crap the democrats propose will make them safer

and the dishonest who push gun restrictions to harass law abiding gun owners but pretend public safety is their goal

 

[MMC]

You linked to a DP post, which linked to wiki, which talked about gun laws.

I wasn't asking about gun laws.

I was asking about Blacks, for a link dyrectly to the concerns of the Black community.

Yeah, and I just highlighted one of the original Black plantiffs and what he had to say. But if ya want a closer look. Then look up Chicago Citizens Speak Out.

 

[LaMidRighter]

I'll take one consistent, federal gun law with it's necessary subissues over the 50 different state laws that cause so many problems for gun owners.

Keep up. It's NOT legal.

 

[Moot]

what have I lied about? I don't hide the reasons for my position like most of the anti gunners

as I noted, there are two kinds of anti gun advocates

the stupid and ignorant who actually think the crap the democrats propose will make them safer

and the dishonest who push gun restrictions to harass law abiding gun owners but pretend public safety is their goal

You lied about my arguement and now you're lying that you didn't. But now that its been pointed out isn't it interesting that you didn't mention the word "ban" or "banning" even once in your notation of gun advocates above?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I'll take one consistent, federal gun law with it's necessary subissues over the 50 different state laws that cause so many problems for gun owners.

We have one. “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” It is the only legitimate law that we have on the subject, and it is the only law that we need on the subject. What we need is for government, at all levels, to obey it.

 

[Linc]

We have one. “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” It is the only legitimate law that we have on the subject, and it is the only law that we need on the subject. What we need is for government, at all levels, to obey it.

Since gun owners appear uninterested in cleaning up the different CCW laws of the several states, especially the RED/CON states, said gun owners go back to the 2nd and act like it is 1789.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Since gun owners appear uninterested in cleaning up the different CCW laws of the several states, especially the RED/CON states, said gun owners go back to the 2nd and act like it is 1789.

And blue states cant seem to manage to pass them, even when ordered by the judicial system to restore the rights of its citizens----which is what this thread is about, liberal attempts to derail to the contrary....

 

[TurtleDude]

You lied about my arguement and now you're lying that you didn't. But now that its been pointed out isn't it interesting that you didn't mention the word "ban" or "banning" even once in your notation of gun advocates above?

you can deny all you want. your arguments, when taken as a whole, demonstrate a serious hatred of gun owners and nothing you have suggested does anything to increase public safety but are designed to harass gun owners. BTW Most gun banners don't come out and claim they want a gun ban right now. Rather its an incremental march towards complete confiscation.

Once you have determined that silly laws are more important than gun rights and that those silly laws are important, you don't need any other mental calculations to accept the next infringement on our rights

 

[RedAkston]

Moderator's Warning:

Personal attacks and off-topic posts will be dealt with. Knock it off now.

 

[Linc]

And blue states cant seem to manage to pass them, even when ordered by the judicial system to restore the rights of its citizens----which is what this thread is about, liberal attempts to derail to the contrary....

CCW will likely pass in Illinois next Tuesday, in some form or other. Any of us illinoisans that post here could have started this thread, but I happened to. I want people to come together not tear apart.

My 4th was spent with my best friend/best man and most of his family. Most own guns, most are in the NRA, and they have provided me many meals from what they hunt, fish, and grow.

I see the problem on every issue, not just guns, as 50 diverging sets of state laws. I consider guns to be in the bottom 5 of our top ten in problems.

I think of the older Black lady on one of the Lethal Weapon sequels slapping Sgt. Murtaugh's face with the lady's husband saying "find those who gave my boy the gun".

Where are the inner city guns and accessories coming from? Is this important? What else should be done? Currently, I believe in selective Martial law and then a WW II type of Marshall plan to fix these areas of so many cities.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Currently, I believe in selective Martial law and then a WW II type of Marshall plan to fix these areas of so many cities.

Standard far wrong thinking. If one excess of overbearing government is failing to produce the desired result, then the solution must be an even greater excess. Treat a poisoning victim by giving an even bigger dose of the same poison.

 

[Linc]

Standard far wrong thinking. If one excess of overbearing government is failing to produce the desired result, then the solution must be an even greater excess. Treat a poisoning victim by giving an even bigger dose of the same poison.

1) Is crime associated with guns a big problem in cities? 2) is it often sighted by gun owners as a reason to not have new laws? 3) Do police have the current resources to fight what I will call a plague with no aside being cast? 4) Is any form of Martial law allowed? 5) Does rejection of Federal officials on any problem have no bounds? 6th) Isn't this just another manifestation of the 10th being used to block any attempt to federalize and consolidate the 2nd?

 

[Jerry]

1) Is crime associated with guns a big problem in cities? 2) is it often sighted by gun owners as a reason to not have new laws? 3) Do police have the current resources to fight what I will call a plague with no aside being cast? 4) Is any form of Martial law allowed? 5) Does rejection of Federal officials on any problem have no bounds? 6th) Isn't this just another manifestation of the 10th being used to block any attempt to federalize and consolidate the 2nd?

It seems the gun problem in America is generated primarily out of cities with populations greater than 250,000. There's a socieo-economic dynamic which exists in high-pop cities which doesn't exist, or is manageable, in smaller cities.

 

[TurtleDude]

Standard far wrong thinking. If one excess of overbearing government is failing to produce the desired result, then the solution must be an even greater excess. Treat a poisoning victim by giving an even bigger dose of the same poison.

that describes gun control to a tee

I think gun control is like what killed our first president

Washington's doctors tried to cure him by bleeding him. when a little bleeding didn't work they did more. Loss of blood contributed to his death. some might think that his death was what the doctors really wanted. I feel the same way about those parasites who are trying to bleed our rights away

 

[MMC]

Yeah, well Quinn's excuse is he Vetoed all due to public safety, so he says.

Don't know how he figured that one.....especially since there was some sort of compromise between the Dems and Repubs.

 

[Linc]

It seems the gun problem in America is generated primarily out of cities with populations greater than 250,000. There's a socieo-economic dynamic which exists in high-pop cities which doesn't exist, or is manageable, in smaller cities.

I agree. This is why I believe in zones, where Newtown and Aurora would be in a continuous suburban zone, while still allowing CCW. Btw, where do these guns in the inner cities come from? Last night, I watched the Miami drug wars of the 80's between the Cubans and the Columbians and how all the narco-banks get away with what they do.

 

[Linc]

Yeah, well Quinn's excuse is he Vetoed all due to public safety, so he says.

Don't know how he figured that one.....especially since there was some sort of compromise between the Dems and Repubs.

The override session should be interesting. I think the Dems away from Cook county will help bury Quinn on this one. He can then tell his base he fought for them.

 

[Jerry]

I agree. This is why I believe in zones, where Newtown and Aurora would be in a continuous suburban zone, while still allowing CCW. Btw, where do these guns in the inner cities come from? Last night, I watched the Miami drug wars of the 80's between the Cubans and the Columbians and how all the narco-banks get away with what they do.

Most guns used by "prohibited persons" are stolen; typically from cars owned by employees who aren't allowed to carry while at work. A punk will do a smash & grab on the car, knowing to look under the seat and in the glove box for a gun. When they find a gun they immediately go rob someone with it, then either sell or ditch the gun, all before the car's owner even knows his car was broken into.

Employers who prohibit guns at work are as much a part of the problem as criminals.

 

[Jerry]

Most guns used by "prohibited persons" are stolen; typically from cars owned by employees who aren't allowed to carry while at work. A punk will do a smash & grab on the car, knowing to look under the seat and in the glove box for a gun. When they find a gun they immediately go rob someone with it, then either sell or ditch the gun, all before the car's owner even knows his car was broken into.

Employers who prohibit guns at work are as much a part of the problem as criminals.

I wanted to add that this is why about half of all stolen guns used in crime are not functional or are unloaded: because responsible owners do not store loaded firearms and disable them if they cannot put them in a micro-vault.