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Question for Theists

<alt>doxygen

"I want MY WALL!"
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In your own words:

What is God?

Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?

^How do you know these things?
 
In your own words:

What is God?

Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?

^How do you know these things?

God is the Mystery of Mysteries.

God only knows.

I think them.
 
God is the Mystery of Mysteries.

God only knows.

I think them.

Yet...atheists (who think they know everything) know nothing?

If the path supplies no answers, why recommend the path?

Should we all just admit it's unknowable and quit pretending we know something or have answers?

All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel.
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save.
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal.
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say.
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight.
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
and everything under
the sun is in tune
but the sun
is eclipsed by the moon.

"There is no dark side
of the moon really.
Matter of fact
it's all dark."

Roger Waters / Pink Floyd
 
Yet...atheists (who think they know everything) know nothing?

If the path supplies no answers, why recommend the path?

Should we all just admit it's unknowable and quit pretending we know something or have answers?



Roger Waters / Pink Floyd

Sartre knew a lot, and he was an atheist. A true atheist knows as much or as little as a true theist. A true atheist appreciates the Mystery at the heart of the human condition and takes a stand against it.

On the other hand, today's atheist, the Dawkins atheist, the New Atheist, the loudmouth know-it-all internet atheist knows nothing when it comes to the human condition and the Mystery at the heart of it. Today's atheist is an insult to humanity, an unreflective belch in the face of the Mystery of things, an intellectual lout and a liar.

As for the path, it affords the chance to stretch the intellectual legs and the spiritual heart and to appreciate the wondrous depths of the Mystery in all its splendor.
The path supplies the questions.
The Mystery is knowable.
Knowing the Mystery is the answer.
 
In your own words:

What is God?

Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?

^How do you know these things?



What is God?
God is the Creator of everything. God is my Creator, my Father.




Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?
For His pleasure.



The short answer to the question “why did God create us?” is “for His pleasure.”
Revelation 4:11 says, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Colossians 1:16 reiterates the point: “All things were created by him and for him.”

Being created for God’s pleasure does not mean humanity was made to entertain God or provide Him with amusement. God is a creative Being, and it gives Him pleasure to create. God is a personal Being, and it gives Him pleasure to have other beings He can have a genuine relationship with.
https://www.gotquestions.org/why-did-God-create-us.html


For what purpose did God create the world?

In general, Scripture teaches us that God created the world and all that is in it for His own glory and because He desired to share His life with others. The creation of all these things demonstrates His glory, His love, grace, mercy, wisdom, power, goodness, etc.
Compare Psalm 19:1; 8:1; 50:6; 89:5.
https://bible.org/question/what-purpose-did-god-create-world





How do you know these things?
Through the Bible, and through personal relationship with Him.
 
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Yet...atheists (who think they know everything) know nothing?

If the path supplies no answers, why recommend the path?

Should we all just admit it's unknowable and quit pretending we know something or have answers?


Why do you conclude the path supplies no answer?
It's more like because........ you refuse to see?

It makes me think of having a mental block. Something in the mind that prevents us from doing or
understanding something.



Why do you assume we're pretending?
I know........not only because of rational thinking, and faith.....but also because of my experience(s)!
 
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Sartre knew a lot, and he was an atheist. A true atheist knows as much or as little as a true theist. A true atheist appreciates the Mystery at the heart of the human condition and takes a stand against it.

On the other hand, today's atheist, the Dawkins atheist, the New Atheist, the loudmouth know-it-all internet atheist knows nothing when it comes to the human condition and the Mystery at the heart of it. Today's atheist is an insult to humanity, an unreflective belch in the face of the Mystery of things, an intellectual lout and a liar.

As for the path, it affords the chance to stretch the intellectual legs and the spiritual heart and to appreciate the wondrous depths of the Mystery in all its splendor.
The path supplies the questions.
The Mystery is knowable.
Knowing the Mystery is the answer.

Decent answer, if one overlooks the knee-jerk attack directed at "dawkins atheists". You seem to have much pent up anger re those guys. Are they a threat to your life and liberty?
 
What is God?
God is the Creator of everything. God is my Creator, my Father.




Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?
For His pleasure.




https://www.gotquestions.org/why-did-God-create-us.html



https://bible.org/question/what-purpose-did-god-create-world





How do you know these things?
Through the Bible, and through personal relationship with Him.

Fascinating. So the existence of all and everything is simply God pleasuring himself. Sounds pretty hedonistic to me.
 
Why do you conclude the path supplies no answer?
It's more like because........ you refuse to see?

It makes me think of having a mental block. Something in the mind that prevents us from doing or
understanding something.



Why do you assume we're pretending?
I know........not only because of rational thinking, and faith.....but also because of my experience(s)!

The response you are replying to was directed at the quoted post(er), not you and every other theist.
 
Decent answer, if one overlooks the knee-jerk attack directed at "dawkins atheists". You seem to have much pent up anger re those guys. Are they a threat to your life and liberty?
But why "knee-jerk"?
 
What is God?
It is an abstract term like "ego" to refer to particular conscious phenomenon integrated into a larger system(existence).

Originally, god basically equated to archetype of a "very powerful being" often with supernatural connotations. Mostly you'd then assign a name to a god if you wanted to be more specific. Say Ra or Gaius Julius Caesar or Ganges river. The name defining it more than the title of god. Judaism in Hebrew did away with this to better align with their philosophy(the Law of Moses): using instead "the Name" or "the Lord" as they noticed a form of idolatry in people if firmly defining God rather than struggling or simply being in awe of the mystery; as well as, to more clearly distinguish powerful men/things such as kings/environment were equally subject to God rather than examples of minor gods on earth. There in they referred back to Biblical God's definition of God: "I am that which I am"

This became somewhat less clear as we saw it enter newer english via christianity, then have big shift in philosophy, especially as the world's surrounding philosophies also evolved and we interrogated many foreign ideas. Eventually we obviously settled on "God" as basically the one and only supernatural being and god meaning sub-supernatural beings either subject to God or not depending on the speakers position on the matter. This became less clear as more and more people adopt forms of pan-theism and refer to God in this matter, but I try to distinguish those for myself by calling that God -> Tao. So to be God IMHO: one is referring to a force: Singular. Supernatural. Conscious. "god" being relegated back to the archaic use as a "very powerful being with/without supernatural connotations used to interpret people outside of this definition, not pantheistic, but still have spiritual beliefs.

So, God is in essence to me the originator of spiritual\supernatural\consciousness\existence\the soul\the spirit\the silent observer who I suspect is singular, conscious and supernatural*(nothing observed will seem off as insider observers paradox - supernatural only meaning originating from a set of causes outside the observable: e.g. attractor fields. A scientifically minded person may explain this supernatural space as the 'probability matrix'.)

Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?
Eternal beings not being subject to space/time could not interact with beings/forces outside their own-ness/vibration/nature. To allow for change, evolution and transformation. God created a nexus, a set of conditions allowing for interaction between different fields of lessor beings to interact and thus transform. Eternal beings can't in and of themselves become temporal. So as conscious conditions exist they simply become linked to concordant temporal vessel and the opportunities to 'experience' there in.

Life then is an expression of transformation and evolution likely as the sum of these processes are natural expression of the nature of God. Well from a personal prospective Life is an opportunity to expand ones own conciseness expression through experience, a gift given by the "will of consciousness" we call God.
 
In your own words:

What is God?

Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?

^How do you know these things?

I'd have this conversation with you in the Theology forum. :)
 
But why "knee-jerk"?

The attacks on them seem to find their way into your posts no matter what the thread or discussion topic. Perhaps de rigueur would have been a better choice on my part.

I'll ask again, do those atheists threaten your life or liberty?
 
The attacks on them seem to find their way into your posts no matter what the thread or discussion topic. Perhaps de rigueur would have been a better choice on my part.

I'll ask again, do those atheists threaten your life or liberty?
I can live with de rigueur.
No, the atheists I criticize do not threaten my life or liberty.
But that is an extremely high bar for justifying criticism, don't you think?
 
It is an abstract term like "ego" to refer to particular conscious phenomenon integrated into a larger system(existence).

Originally, god basically equated to archetype of a "very powerful being" often with supernatural connotations. Mostly you'd then assign a name to a god if you wanted to be more specific. Say Ra or Gaius Julius Caesar or Ganges river. The name defining it more than the title of god. Judaism in Hebrew did away with this to better align with their philosophy(the Law of Moses): using instead "the Name" or "the Lord" as they noticed a form of idolatry in people if firmly defining God rather than struggling or simply being in awe of the mystery; as well as, to more clearly distinguish powerful men/things such as kings/environment were equally subject to God rather than examples of minor gods on earth. There in they referred back to Biblical God's definition of God: "I am that which I am"

This became somewhat less clear as we saw it enter newer english via christianity, then have big shift in philosophy, especially as the world's surrounding philosophies also evolved and we interrogated many foreign ideas. Eventually we obviously settled on "God" as basically the one and only supernatural being and god meaning sub-supernatural beings either subject to God or not depending on the speakers position on the matter. This became less clear as more and more people adopt forms of pan-theism and refer to God in this matter, but I try to distinguish those for myself by calling that God -> Tao. So to be God IMHO: one is referring to a force: Singular. Supernatural. Conscious. "god" being relegated back to the archaic use as a "very powerful being with/without supernatural connotations used to interpret people outside of this definition, not pantheistic, but still have spiritual beliefs.

So, God is in essence to me the originator of spiritual\supernatural\consciousness\existence\the soul\the spirit\the silent observer who I suspect is singular, conscious and supernatural*(nothing observed will seem off as insider observers paradox - supernatural only meaning originating from a set of causes outside the observable: e.g. attractor fields. A scientifically minded person may explain this supernatural space as the 'probability matrix'.)


Eternal beings not being subject to space/time could not interact with beings/forces outside their own-ness/vibration/nature. To allow for change, evolution and transformation. God created a nexus, a set of conditions allowing for interaction between different fields of lessor beings to interact and thus transform. Eternal beings can't in and of themselves become temporal. So as conscious conditions exist they simply become linked to concordant temporal vessel and the opportunities to 'experience' there in.

Life then is an expression of transformation and evolution likely as the sum of these processes are natural expression of the nature of God. Well from a personal prospective Life is an opportunity to expand ones own conciseness expression through experience, a gift given by the "will of consciousness" we call God.

I really like that. Really. I'm going to read it a few more times.

Thanks.

I took a course back when I was briefly a psych major called something like The Psychology of Religion. Your post is sort of like an exposition on my takeaway from that course, though I very much doubt I'd have been able to articulate it as well as you did.
 
I can live with de rigueur.
No, the atheists I criticize do not threaten my life or liberty.
But that is an extremely high bar for justifying criticism, don't you think?

That's my basic libertarian bar for when I start literally fighting against others with differing belief systems.

Arguing/debating is one thing, but you seem genuinely angry at them. It's probably akin to the way I feel about Dominionists and Islamist radicals, but I don't take pot shots at those groups in every thread in this subforum.
 
That's my basic libertarian bar for when I start literally fighting against others with differing belief systems.

Arguing/debating is one thing, but you seem genuinely angry at them. It's probably akin to the way I feel about Dominionists and Islamist radicals, but I don't take pot shots at those groups in every thread in this subforum.

I just "seem genuinely angry at them." I'm rather just disappointed in them, probably the way you feel when you see people littering, or when you see kids being cruel or nasty to other kids. I don't see my criticisms as "potshots," however; I see them as taking steady aim. Though I admit I am capable of getting off a potshot now and then, but it's usually in answer to potshots.
 
I just "seem genuinely angry at them." I'm rather just disappointed in them, probably the way you feel when you see people littering, or when you see kids being cruel or nasty to other kids. I don't see my criticisms as "potshots," however; I see them as taking steady aim. Though I admit I am capable of getting off a potshot now and then, but it's usually in answer to potshots.

It seemed a potshot in the context of this thread.

When you create a thread specifically designed to take them on, going after them is expected. If they go after you, return fire is expected.
 
It seemed a potshot in the context of this thread.

When you create a thread specifically designed to take them on, going after them is expected. If they go after you, return fire is expected.
I'm sorry for it then. This is your thread, and it is aimed at theists. I'd have to go back through the posts to find what set me off, but I'll just make my apologies to the host and slip off to another party.
 
Sartre knew a lot, and he was an atheist. A true atheist knows as much or as little as a true theist. A true atheist appreciates the Mystery at the heart of the human condition and takes a stand against it.

On the other hand, today's atheist, the Dawkins atheist, the New Atheist, the loudmouth know-it-all internet atheist knows nothing when it comes to the human condition and the Mystery at the heart of it. Today's atheist is an insult to humanity, an unreflective belch in the face of the Mystery of things, an intellectual lout and a liar.

As for the path, it affords the chance to stretch the intellectual legs and the spiritual heart and to appreciate the wondrous depths of the Mystery in all its splendor.
The path supplies the questions.
The Mystery is knowable.
Knowing the Mystery is the answer.

If the Mystery is knowable then it can't be called the Mystery.
 
Sartre knew a lot, and he was an atheist. A true atheist knows as much or as little as a true theist. A true atheist appreciates the Mystery at the heart of the human condition and takes a stand against it.

On the other hand, today's atheist, the Dawkins atheist, the New Atheist, the loudmouth know-it-all internet atheist knows nothing when it comes to the human condition and the Mystery at the heart of it. Today's atheist is an insult to humanity, an unreflective belch in the face of the Mystery of things, an intellectual lout and a liar.

As for the path, it affords the chance to stretch the intellectual legs and the spiritual heart and to appreciate the wondrous depths of the Mystery in all its splendor.
The path supplies the questions.
The Mystery is knowable.
Knowing the Mystery is the answer.

Is a true atheist anything like a true Scotsman?
 
I'd have this conversation with you in the Theology forum. :)

Hi Nate - I requested that the thread be moved. Here's the reply I got:

considering the discussion and the strict ruleset for the Theology subforum, it would probably not be a great idea to move it there.

If you want to be able to speak without getting flack, you can PM me.

I'd love to hear your answers. You see things from a different perspective than a lot of American (USA) Christians, so the way you see God and relate to God in your life might be different as well.

Regardless. take care.:peace
 
Fascinating. So the existence of all and everything is simply God pleasuring himself. Sounds pretty hedonistic to me.

What you think of God is..........irrelevant. But it does offers a clue of those who "judge" God, like as if their judgement matters at all.
Either they don't have a grasp of the concept of an almighty God.....
...........or, for whatever reason they may have - they feel so resentful of Him.
To a lot of them - they're resentful of all the rules that put a damper to their lifestyle.
It's kinda like a juvenile reaction to rules at home. :lol:

That last statement sounds so typical to me - a typical sour grape comment.
The kind of "bitchy" comment that I'd heard from women! "looks pretty bottle blonde to me." :mrgreen:


Bitching. You hear it all the time! That's why there is a popular wet-dream song titled, "Take this job and shove it."
The anthem for the displeased and the helpless angry work force.
That would be kinda like so many employees, groaning and whining and "bitching" about their employer's
purpose for doing business.....

........but, they're still pathetically dependent on him - they can't do anything about his purpose.
Only thing those helplessly disgusted about his ways can do is, "bitch." Give sour grape comments.:lol:
He still owns the business. :shrug:
 
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In your own words:

What is God?

Why did God create this universe, the Earth and the human race?

^How do you know these things?


  1. I have no idea
  2. Universe --> To prove to other gods that it could actually be done.
    Earth & Humans --> Entertainment
  3. Faith
 
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