Question for the "Woke" Among Us:

[Aunt Antifa]

Well and it won’t help in eradicating racism as a thought process because it builds resentment.

So Black folks get what’s comin’ to ‘em.

 

[X Factor]

So Black folks get what’s comin’ to ‘em.

What’s “comin’ to ‘em?”

 

[Aunt Antifa]

What’s “comin’ to ‘em?”

According to your last post: resentment from white folks.

Which, I wonder how that would represent itself in a manner that Black folks living in this country would notice a difference?

 

[CaughtInThe]

during periods when we promote diversity we see a LOT of pushback and pretty much every tactic you can imagine (aggressive to subtle) to try to slow the acceptance of all men (and women) being created equal.

that's all this new era (post-Trump) is. we are promoting all people being born equal and it angers those that are against it (so they have to get creative).


sucks to be them.

 

[Ginger Ale]

I believe the protest signified the want of understanding and acknowledgement. Because with those tools, the future for black people in America would naturally change. But, instead they seem to have also spurred an up rise in the White Nationalist movement, to the point of being involved in a capital riot. So, in response, a portion of America is actively acknowledging they think black people have no place here as equal citizens, which is just a replay of our history. To me, It's quite surprising in 2021, that this would be the direction of anyone.

So, given that fact, the laws we create and the laws we repair have to be strong enough to combat the current racists, and white nationalists movements we have now. This is difficult when they are spread throughout our government and law enforcement. The protests need to continue to keep up awareness. I hope the WN Trump supporters continue to shed light on who they are as well, because I believe the majority of Americans will repel that and it helps acknowledge that we still, to this day, have a problem with inequality.

Biden's cabinet picks are a start. America needs to see itself in our government, otherwise we risk the appearance of having "masters" in leadership. This holds true for large companies and law enforcement.
Speaking of law enforcement, it needs an overhaul. I can remember growing up in L.A., and hearing family friends who were police officers spew really racist crap. It's bigger than most people think. There are also worries of police "gangs" withing agencies across America.



I think to be confident, and fair, our justice system needs to be thoroughly investigated and policies need to be instated to hold people accountable. The funds should be supplied to do so. There is a certain loyalty and compliance in fear of losing your job, or security at work for coming forward in our justice system, more like a special club than employment. The police officers are afraid of themselves, of course society would also be afraid of them, especially the profiled. So, the de funding, and re working of our force is a good idea. Not only for our society and those of color, but for us as a whole in America.

Our justice system has a bad reputation around the world and it's not just a stereotype. We put way too many people in jail. I think if we investigate and re-structure our entire justice system, that will come to light. I will be really surprised if it doesn't. The policy will follow that. We can't continue to ignore, we have to shine a light on it. That's all black people want.

I could go on and on but I will stop here. I hope you can understand my ramblings. I do think it's good to talk about it so I appreciate the thread.

I think it will be decided along the way, and as long as MOST Americans acknowledge we need change, it will happen on all levels. It will take time, but if we can see progress, it will make it easier to wait.

The CPAC, or should I say, TPAC, is helping more people see that our country could easily go backwards. The new "ME FIRST" movement which is now full of White Nationalists backing a Trump presidency and not accepting legitimate election results helps us see clearly. "Make America Great Again" has a subtle meaning of racism, and after the capital riot we know why and what it means. The TPAC's stage resemblance to a Nazi symbol may just be another eerie accident, but it resembles a series of accidental racist mistakes this party claims are just dumb misunderstandings. I think this just makes more people in America pay attention and a lot of Republicans aren't in agreement with the Trump party, that's a good thing and gives hope for our country.

 

[X Factor]

According to your last post: resentment from white folks.

Which, I wonder how that would represent itself in a manner that Black folks living in this country would notice a difference?

The white guilt bullshit comes mainly from white bullshitters with a savior complex.

 

[X Factor]

I believe the protest signified the want of understanding and acknowledgement. Because with those tools, the future for black people in America would naturally change. But, instead they seem to have also spurred an up rise in the White Nationalist movement, to the point of being involved in a capital riot. So, in response, a portion of America is actively acknowledging they think black people have no place here as equal citizens, which is just a replay of our history. To me, It's quite surprising in 2021, that this would be the direction of anyone.

So, given that fact, the laws we create and the laws we repair have to be strong enough to combat the current racists, and white nationalists movements we have now. This is difficult when they are spread throughout our government and law enforcement. The protests need to continue to keep up awareness. I hope the WN Trump supporters continue to shed light on who they are as well, because I believe the majority of Americans will repel that and it helps acknowledge that we still, to this day, have a problem with inequality.

Biden's cabinet picks are a start. America needs to see itself in our government, otherwise we risk the appearance of having "masters" in leadership. This holds true for large companies and law enforcement.
Speaking of law enforcement, it needs an overhaul. I can remember growing up in L.A., and hearing family friends who were police officers spew really racist crap. It's bigger than most people think. There are also worries of police "gangs" withing agencies across America.



I think to be confident, and fair, our justice system needs to be thoroughly investigated and policies need to be instated to hold people accountable. The funds should be supplied to do so. There is a certain loyalty and compliance in fear of losing your job, or security at work for coming forward in our justice system, more like a special club than employment. The police officers are afraid of themselves, of course society would also be afraid of them, especially the profiled. So, the de funding, and re working of our force is a good idea. Not only for our society and those of color, but for us as a whole in America.

Our justice system has a bad reputation around the world and it's not just a stereotype. We put way too many people in jail. I think if we investigate and re-structure our entire justice system, that will come to light. I will be really surprised if it doesn't. The policy will follow that. We can't continue to ignore, we have to shine a light on it. That's all black people want.

I could go on and on but I will stop here. I hope you can understand my ramblings. I do think it's good to talk about it so I appreciate the thread.

I think it will be decided along the way, and as long as MOST Americans acknowledge we need change, it will happen on all levels. It will take time, but if we can see progress, it will make it easier to wait.

The CPAC, or should I say, TPAC, is helping more people see that our country could easily go backwards. The new "ME FIRST" movement which is now full of White Nationalists backing a Trump presidency and not accepting legitimate election results helps us see clearly. "Make America Great Again" has a subtle meaning of racism, and after the capital riot we know why and what it means. The TPAC's stage resemblance to a Nazi symbol may just be another eerie accident, but it resembles a series of accidental racist mistakes this party claims are just dumb misunderstandings. I think this just makes more people in America pay attention and a lot of Republicans aren't in agreement with the Trump party, that's a good thing and gives hope for our country.

That’s a lot idiocy for just one post.

 

[Antiwar]

When you add more later - include what you see is the end point or is there an endpoint? In tracing my family tree the first record of my family name was a man who was a slave. Is it a factor of time? Or money? Or what? No one has ever been willing to say "X" (whatever X may be) is the end point. If the endpoint is no more racism - then who defines racism?

I suppose there is no endpoint for racism because people are moody, so things will happen.

If you meant more than that, let me know.

 

[Antiwar]

The white guilt bullshit comes mainly from white bullshitters with a savior complex.

You are something.

 

[Ginger Ale]

That’s a lot idiocy for just one post.

That's a short sentence to screw up.

 

[X Factor]

That's a short sentence to screw up.

Well shit. You’re right.

 

[humbolt]

Laws against murder have been highly effective, and we have different degrees of murder. I remember my piano teacher telling me I murdered a piece, which was confusing. I could've thought that it meant that I'd killed it, but given the context, I don't think that's quite what she meant. Anyway, just pass a law, and the problem is solved.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Well shit. You’re right.

This reply gave me a good laugh and smile today. It's always nice the we can all keep a sense of humor on here.

 

[X Factor]

This reply gave me a good laugh and smile today. It's always nice the we can all keep a sense of humor on here.

I’m glad it gave you a chuckle. I laughed too when I read your response.

 

[AGENT J]

PART 1

Lots of talk about race etc these days. I have a question. Two questions actually. This pertains to government legislation ie: "regulation" so I think it belongs here.
1) How do you define "racism" specifically. I am aware of the textbook/dictionary definition, I want to know how *you* are defining "racism".
1B.) You want to end it, thats great, what *specifically* must be ended in your opinion? Is it saying certain words or thinking certain thoughts? Certain actions?
1C.) There are laws prohibiting discrimination already. Discrimination is a byproduct of "racism" or at least a part of racism. So that is my first question, what specifically is "racism".
1D.) What piece of legislation, SPECIFICALLY, do you want to see instituted that you believe will end "racism", other than the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
What SPECIFICALLY do you feel should be added to where "racism" will be legislated away? Or is this something that will be accomplished via social media by "shaming" people and so forth?
We can never arrive at any destination or goal without first having a clear understanding of what specifically has to be done to get there.

LOL well first I have no idea what woke actually means . . its one of those made up new age terms that im sure meant something but now is so overused in positive ways, negative ways, exaggerated ways in both direction i couldn't tell you if i am nor do i care lol

now on to answer the questions the best I can based on my opinions
1.) well I have no idea to answer this question because the dictionary is how I define it, i have no made-up definition for it thats where people make their mistakes.
Now maybe what you are getting at or what will help answer your question is that everything in life is circumstantial and grey so in some ways blanket racism is easily seen and can be identified and in other cases not so much.
1B.) Unfortunately, there probably is no ending it in my lifetime or probably 3 generations out. We can work on lessening it with basic education because racism always comes from a foundation of ignorance. there are other bricks on top of that foundation like fear, insecurity, jealousy, hate, victimhood etc but the foundation is always ignorance so lessening the ignorance should always play a major role and then of course equal and civil rights for all. These things will help with ignorance and lessen it to where its so taboo its low. more specifically to you asking about certain thoughts and words . . no, again those are going to exist but actions yes. Again since things are circumstantial it would require examples of what you would want.
1C) Correct and those laws are certainly needed for all Americans and its a foundation to combat ignorance and bigotry
1D) again I don't think it will end just get small enough where its a none factor and thats far away. No "legislation" will end it legislation only helps lessen it, protects rights and starts us on the right path and keeps us from going to far backward.

I will say this and maybe this answers you in a ways too. . . I always knew there was systemic, systematic and general racism in america. I never had any doubt of that because of the many examples, cases and personal experiences with it IN MANY DIRECTIONS (white black Asain etc) . . . but I learned I was VERY naive on this topic. unfortunately, the last few years have taught me it's way more than I thought. Its still a minority of people that are sociopathic racist but that number I dont know about anymore and that was heartbreaking to learn. At one time I would have guessed 10% or less, now my guess is maybe as high as 30% have racist views. Now those views will vary in extremism but they are racist nonetheless.

Also sad that so many people are accepting of this vile sociopathic behavior .. that number was also bigger than I thought and I think that is the 3rd key to my answer. education, laws/rights (that exist) and not accepting it.

 

[AGENT J]

PART 2

2.) This is a legitimate question(s) from an academic and scholarly standpoint, and I already know that many will "answer" by calling me "racist", insulting my intelligence (or trying to), insinuating/implying that I have moral shortcomings for not simply grasping the "obvious" that I should be able to understand, etc.
I am looking for real answers here please.
And thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned responses.
Go ahead. Tell me what law you see being passed. Tell me your solution to "end racism" as you define it. Go.

2.) whether its legit or not I think its a good question and good topic so I would answer anyway. I doubt there are "MANY" that will call you racist based on this question alone lol


but you also have to understand you are trying to define an answer before its given. You see that right? you are looking for a type of answer to a question/solution that I dont think people actually have . . you paint it into a corner. Its almost some type of pre strawman in a way lol . .i know that's not a term Im just not sure how to describe it.

what im getting at is I don't recall any claims of people saying "this law" . . "will end racism" or even saying it can magically end . . im not saying it never happened just saying i dont know of it being a legit thing. I just know most normal people want to fight against sociopathic behavior and protect the rights, freedoms and equality of us all

regardless I answered you the best I could.

 

[Visbek]

"How to be antiracist" or ie: How to be racist against whites.
(Thats basically what "antiracist" is)

Try reading what I actually typed, kthx.

 

[Visbek]

But every registered voter already has a say in the political process...no?

No.

- Republicans are doing everything they can to block minorities from voting, including making it difficult for minorities to register in the first place, and gerrymandering districts to reduce the influence of minority voters. It is Jim Crow 2.0 right now.

- Minorities are vastly underrepresented in elected positions. E.g. non-Hispanic whites are 60% of the US population, but hold 77% of voting seats in Congress.

- The Republican Party, despite having a reasonably solid footing in selected Hispanic communities (mostly Cubans), is disproportionately white (as well as disproportionately older and more rural).

- The political process is heavily tilted towards rural regions, the wealthy and corporations, which are disproportionately white.

"Police brutality"...you mean like Mike Brown? Rashard? Geo Floyd? Is that really "police brutality" though?

Yes and yes. Don't even front.

If the police suspected you of a non-violent crime, and you ended up on the ground, in handcuffs, not struggling, with a 180+ pound police officer kneeling on your neck and cutting off your oxygen for almost ten minutes, you'd classify that as "police brutality."

Schools aren't segregated anymore are they?

Good grief. Yes, schools are still segregated.

The Problem We All Live With - Part One - This American Life

There’s one thing that has been proven to cut the achievement gap between black and white students by half: integration.

www.thisamericanlife.org

Schools are still segregated, and black children are paying a price

Well over six decades after the Supreme Court declared “separate but equal” schools to be unconstitutional in Brown v. Board of Education, schools remain heavily segregated by race and ethnicity. What are the consequences of this lack of progress in integrating schools for black children? It...

www.epi.org

Shipping students from the decent schools that residents create for themselves to he areas where the residents haven't created good schools for themselves?

Public schools are funded by local taxes, which tilts them in favor of affluent communities. Private education is also obviously tilted towards the wealthy.

Students in poorer communities also face tougher challenges than those in wealthy ones -- e.g. just getting proper nutrition is a challenge for those students, resulting in schools needing to spend more just for food. Those students also obviously have less stable access to resources such as tutors, after-school programs and more.

At a time when minorities are 50% of students in the classroom, nearly 80% of teachers are white. It should not be terribly surprising, then, that teachers are just as biased as everyone else in the US.

Teachers Just As Likely To Be Racially Biased As Anyone Else

The notion that classrooms are beacons of racial equality is undermined by new research showing teachers share the racial biases of the wider population.

www.forbes.com

Minority communities in the US have been getting the shaft for decades. In the same way that you can't breathe if someone is kneeling on your neck, you can't build a good community when multiple socioeconomic systems are doing everything they can to keep your community down.

You seem to be saying we should pressure people into voting for candidates based on their skin color. The very definition of "racism". LOL.

News flash! Americans aren't color-blind. And when minorities are underrepresented in elected positions, that isn't a sign of a healthy democracy.

We already have a sane immigration system, a very liberal immigration system actually. Check around the world. The skin color really doesn't come into play.

Trump spent 5 years playing the race card by demonizing immigrants, including referring to African nations as "shithole countries." He explicitly tried to ban Muslims from entering the US. He deliberately set up a program to separate Hispanic children from their parents. For some strange reason, they never tried to do the same to white families.

The US immigration system is an unfair mess. Its history is riddled with explicitly racist measures like the 1882 Exclusion Act, and immigration quotas that favored Northern Europeans until 1965.

Every nation has the same starting numeric quota for visas, despite obvious disparities in both national populations and requests. This obviously disfavors Chinese, Indian, and Mexican applicants. 36 nations, mostly European, get additional visas. 19 nations are barred from the diversity visa program, and almost all of those blocked nations are in Asia or Latin America.

The US immigration system is better than it was in the past, but it is far from color-blind.

Hmmmm. I'm just living my life.

None of the suggestions I've made in any way prevent you from "living your life." You aren't blocked from doing anything you want to do by making our educational system fairer, or improving immigration policy. Taking police brutality seriously doesn't mean the police will start harassing you. Ending gerrymandering makes the system more fair, and ultimately that's better for everyone.

 

[mrjurrs]

Lots of talk about race etc these days. I have a question. Two questions actually. This pertains to government legislation ie: "regulation" so I think it belongs here.
1) How do you define "racism" specifically. I am aware of the textbook/dictionary definition, I want to know how *you* are defining "racism". You want to end it, thats great, what *specifically* must be ended in your opinion? Is it saying certain words or thinking certain thoughts? Certain actions?
There are laws prohibiting discrimination already. Discrimination is a byproduct of "racism" or at least a part of racism. So that is my first question, what specifically is "racism".
And 2) What piece of legislation, SPECIFICALLY, do you want to see instituted that you believe will end "racism", other than the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
What SPECIFICALLY do you feel should be added to where "racism" will be legislated away? Or is this something that will be accomplished via social media by "shaming" people and so forth?
We can never arrive at any destination or goal without first having a clear understanding of what specifically has to be done to get there.

This is a legitimate question(s) from an academic and scholarly standpoint, and I already know that many will "answer" by calling me "racist", insulting my intelligence (or trying to), insinuating/implying that I have moral shortcomings for not simply grasping the "obvious" that I should be able to understand, etc.
I am looking for real answers here please.
And thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned responses.
Go ahead. Tell me what law you see being passed. Tell me your solution to "end racism" as you define it. Go.

We don't need new laws if we were more willing to adhere to the guidance of the Constitution.

You should stop focusing on racism and instead look to understand the power structures that support racism.

 

[Montgomery]

Lots of talk about race etc these days. I have a question. Two questions actually. This pertains to government legislation ie: "regulation" so I think it belongs here.
1) How do you define "racism" specifically. I am aware of the textbook/dictionary definition, I want to know how *you* are defining "racism". You want to end it, thats great, what *specifically* must be ended in your opinion? Is it saying certain words or thinking certain thoughts? Certain actions?
There are laws prohibiting discrimination already. Discrimination is a byproduct of "racism" or at least a part of racism. So that is my first question, what specifically is "racism".
And 2) What piece of legislation, SPECIFICALLY, do you want to see instituted that you believe will end "racism", other than the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
What SPECIFICALLY do you feel should be added to where "racism" will be legislated away? Or is this something that will be accomplished via social media by "shaming" people and so forth?
We can never arrive at any destination or goal without first having a clear understanding of what specifically has to be done to get there.

This is a legitimate question(s) from an academic and scholarly standpoint, and I already know that many will "answer" by calling me "racist", insulting my intelligence (or trying to), insinuating/implying that I have moral shortcomings for not simply grasping the "obvious" that I should be able to understand, etc.
I am looking for real answers here please.
And thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned responses.
Go ahead. Tell me what law you see being passed. Tell me your solution to "end racism" as you define it. Go.

A racist can't just barge in and make his own credibility on the racism issue. He would need credibility from showing he was sincere about asking the question.
He's not sincere, he's a hardcore racist attempting to score a few points for his and his Klan's cause.

America has a racism problem and also a race problem. It's highly doubtful anybody will be interested in understanding that.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

A racist can't just barge in and make his own credibility on the racism issue. He would need credibility from showing he was sincere about asking the question.
He's not sincere, he's a hardcore racist attempting to score a few points for his and his Klan's cause.

America has a racism problem and also a race problem. It's highly doubtful anybody will be interested in understanding that.

I dont know what any of that actually means really, but I assure you I am "sincere" in asking the question that I asked.

You did not provide an answer.

>America has a racism problem and also a race problem.<

Well, thats what I keep hearing. I asked what specifically should be done from a legislative standpoint that has not already been done.
If you dont know...just say "I dont know".
Thank you.

 

[Montgomery]

I dont know what any of that actually means really, but I assure you I am "sincere" in asking the question that I asked.

You did not provide an answer.

>America has a racism problem and also a race problem.<

Well, thats what I keep hearing. I asked what specifically should be done from a legislative standpoint that has not already been done.
If you dont know...just say "I dont know".
Thank you.

You can't have my personal validation of your faked concerns.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

You can't have my personal validation of your faked concerns.

OK, I'll take that as an "I dont know".
Thanks.

Until you figure out what specifically needs to be done to end what you define as "racism", there cant possibly be any positive outcome.
Telling white people how awful they are and dwelling on the past and calling people "racists" on social media isnt going to have any positive effect at all, and will just be all negative IMO.
Just as you are seeing now.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

Sorry, I still am quite unwoke and have no intention of becoming woke at any point soon!

Lots of talk about race etc these days. I have a question. Two questions actually. This pertains to government legislation ie: "regulation" so I think it belongs here.

1) How do you define "racism" specifically. I am aware of the textbook/dictionary definition, I want to know how *you* are defining "racism". You want to end it, thats great, what *specifically* must be ended in your opinion? Is it saying certain words or thinking certain thoughts? Certain actions?

"Racism" is a very unique and special term in our present. It does have a specific origin:

The Oxford English Dictionary's first recorded utterance of the word racism was by a man named Richard Henry Pratt in 1902. Pratt was railing against the evils of racial segregation.

Segregating any class or race of people apart from the rest of the people kills the progress of the segregated people or makes their growth very slow. Association of races and classes is necessary to destroy racism and classism.

I think this would be more or less *the textbook definition*.

But there is a great deal of 'social ideology' that is operating in Pratt's statement. The idea behind it was that if the Native Americans he was referring to had more contact and association with Whites then they would learn the white man's ways better and could assimilate.

And though the same sense still operates in the word "racism" (which should always appear in quotes) it has many other meanings today. But remember: it is a 'tool' and not merely a word.

So if I say "I believe it is good to establish strict immigration laws for the southern border and to restrict Mesoamerican immigration only to those who apply legally and are accepted legally" I could and likely would be called a "racist". Meaning: I have no right to assert my definitions of what proper immigration is, nor of who in specific senses should be allowed and who discoursed.

If I also said "I think Mesoamerican immigration into the social body of the United States should be kept to a reasonable minimum" I would certainly be designated as a "racist" even though I might not have anything particularly against Mexicans or Central Americans as such. Again the power of the word is used as a psychological tool of coercion/manipulation.

In many instances the accusation of "racism" is used against those who have a different or specific view of what American culture is or should be, and so the accusation of "racism" is part of a program of isolating and vilifying those who have a different view of what is good and proper for American culture.

It is also used as a powerful and effective tool in a process of disassociating people -- I refer to white people of course but it could work against others too -- from self-appreciation and self-empowerment. As far as I know, today, if anyone defines themselves as 'proud to be white' or in a specific sense as 'pro-white' or 'pro white wellbeing', that this is "racist" in itself. So the accusation of "racist' is a tool used to weaken people's association with their own selves, their own being.

Its function therefore is to weaken a given people, to render them malleable to certain processes of *dispossession* that are on-going. But this meaning of the word, and the use of the word, is rarely if ever acknowledged.

How and why this has become used as a tool to create this weakening of self-identification is an interesting area for continued examination. The Dissident Right does this, the American Conservative Right does not do it. It can't because it involves 'dangerous and problematic' territories of thought and definition.

So the term is a broad tool to attack and condemn people of a different idea-set. I.e. those who do not embrace rather specific and outlined social policies and programs.

Many of these '-ism' words have been invested with a whole range of intentionalities and are similarly used.

 

[Ren]

A black man wants a job as an accountant.

He applies for the position and he's the most qualified.

The boss hires a white guy anyway. His reasoning is that a black guy might cause problems. Joe is another employee and is kind of racist and might say something that's racist and cause problems that the boss will have to sort out. Best not hire the black to begin with and avoid the problem all together.

Legislation has worked to fix some of this with affirmative action. It makes the boss hire a black guy, he has no choice.


What else? Education maybe. Meeting a few black people and finding out that they are just like you and me would help too.

See, this is part of the problem. If a business owner wants to hire all black people then he should have the right to do just that (or does he already have that right?); likewise, a white guy should have the same right.

If someone else wants to diversify the hell out of her business, then God bless her, she is allowed to do it.

It should be up to the individual. If an all black firm or an all white firm is suffering because they aren't diverse then they should have the right to either change their policies or keep losing business.