question for liberals about militant islam

[mikhail]

quite short really

why is it that all the apologies for a militant islam come from the liberal left when it stands for everything the liberal left opposes?

 

[rivrrat]

I've never seen anyone apologizing for said militant behavior. But perhaps you'll have define "militant islam". You referring to the terrorist mindset? What most of us consider to be islamic extremists?

If so, who apologizes for them?

 

[WI Crippler]

quite short really

why is it that all the apologies for a militant islam come from the liberal left when it stands for everything the liberal left opposes?

Because they don't know what militant Islam really is about. All that matters to them is that militant Islam is against Bush and his policies. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, kind of thing...

I don't know that they necessarily apologize for or approve the actions, but rather they trace the blame back to Bush and stop there, instead of looking further back into the true root causes for the problems militant Islam is causing.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Hang on , as a feminist we have always opposed militant Islam or fundamentalism that subjucate and pervert any religion into mistreatment of women. IN 1994 as a med student I joined a feminist organization started by Jane Brokaw ( daughter of tom brokaw) and we went to Afganistan to provide medical care for women under the Taliban regime because they did not allow women to be doctors and women could not see male doctors ( so essentially no medical care.) We championed the government about the dangers of such a regime but our voices fell on deaf ears ( after all we were just hysterical feminists) until 9-11........ I don't recall any other conservative organization at the time sounding the alarm about the Taliban but almost of the femiinst organizations did.

Link to a report dessimated among the feminists blog sites in 2000 about the Taliban

RAWA in WIN - Women's International Net Magazine, Issue 36, October 2000


anyway, just showing how we as women have been fighting them for years but no one took our concerns seriously. Afterall, if a society or culture allows for mistreatment of women, it only extends to the other segments of society.

My family in Malaysia are sifu muslims. They are not militant muslims. If anything they raised and indoctrinated in me the power and capabilities of women. It is because of them I went on to succeed in chemistry and now my current profession.

 

[niftydrifty]

why is it that all the apologies for a militant islam come from the liberal left when it stands for everything the liberal left opposes?

examples, please.

 

[mikhail]

Hang on , as a feminist we have always opposed militant Islam or fundamentalism that subjucate and pervert any religion into mistreatment of women. IN 1994 as a med student I joined a feminist organization started by Jane Brokaw ( daughter of tom brokaw) and we went to Afganistan to provide medical care for women under the Taliban regime because they did not allow women to be doctors and women could not see male doctors ( so essentially no medical care.) We championed the government about the dangers of such a regime but our voices fell on deaf ears ( after all we were just hysterical feminists) until 9-11........ I don't recall any other conservative organization at the time sounding the alarm about the Taliban but almost of the femiinst organizations did.

Link to a report dessimated among the feminists blog sites in 2000 about the Taliban

RAWA in WIN - Women's International Net Magazine, Issue 36, October 2000


anyway, just showing how we as women have been fighting them for years but no one took our concerns seriously. Afterall, if a society or culture allows for mistreatment of women, it only extends to the other segments of society.

very good i aplaud you efforts.

what im actually talking about is people who defend militant islams treatment of minorities such as those you speak of maybe less coming from the us but coming from what i see in the uk it seems to be the left that are excusing militant islam as they are anti bush and anti conservative.

I think my post here is just going to bring deniles that any left wingers have been doing this.

 

[niftydrifty]

I think my post here is just going to bring deniles that any left wingers have been doing this.

wrong. what your post has already brought are a few questions. which left wingers? name names, please. you made the charge. please elaborate. it's impossible to respond if you aren't specific.

 

[bandaidwoman]

very good i aplaud you efforts.

what im actually talking about is people who defend militant islams treatment of minorities such as those you speak of maybe less coming from the us but coming from what i see in the uk it seems to be the left that are excusing militant islam as they are anti bush and anti conservative.

I think my post here is just going to bring deniles that any left wingers have been doing this.

I don't know what you are talking about. I need to see some specific examples, any group who defend their actions regardless of their feelings for Bush is uncalled for, that I concur. I know I have never made any apologies or defended any of their actions, but I do defend grouping peaceful muslims like the sifus with the raging fundamentalists like the wahabis who comprised most of the 9-11 terrorists.

 

[Billo_Really]

If we want to play this game, what about the right apologizing for war-mongering, anti-American, bullshit Christians that don't have a clue as to what GOD is all about?

 

[oldreliable67]

If we want to play this game, what about the right apologizing for war-mongering, anti-American, bullshit Christians that don't have a clue as to what GOD is all about?

Probably a good topic for a thread, but it ain't the topic of this thread.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

quite short really

why is it that all the apologies for a militant islam come from the liberal left when it stands for everything the liberal left opposes?

Easy answer they're not the liberal left they're the fascist/socialist left.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

wrong. what your post has already brought are a few questions. which left wingers? name names, please. you made the charge. please elaborate. it's impossible to respond if you aren't specific.

Noam Chomsky:

A Quick Reaction, by Noam Chomsky

 

[niftydrifty]

Noam Chomsky:

A Quick Reaction, by Noam Chomsky

TOT, that article was not about militant Islam. that article was about you!

"the hard jingoist right refuses to understand."

indeed.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

TOT, that article was not about militant Islam. that article was about you!

"the hard jingoist right refuses to understand."

indeed.

Bullshit that was Noam Chomsky being apologetic and sympathetic to Islamic Fascism just as he was with the Communists in North Korea and Cambodia, Chomsky has never met an anti-American genocidal tyrant that he doesn't like, he's the ****ing scum of the earth.

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Bullshit that was Noam Chomsky being apologetic and sympathetic to Islamic Fascism just as he was with the Communists in North Korea and Cambodia, Chomsky has never met an anti-American genocidal tyrant that he doesn't like, he's the ****ing scum of the earth.

Puff puff pass. You must've been thinking of some other article, but I do like how you have to use curse words in every post, it makes you seem so cool and attractive.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Puff puff pass. You must've been thinking of some other article, but I do like how you have to use curse words in every post, it makes you seem so cool and attractive.

No actually that was the exact ****ing article I was ****ing thinking of he uses one ****ing line at the begining to condemn the 9-11 attacks and then goes on an essay long vitriolic anti-American rant making excuses for the attacks, trying to justify said attack, and drawing a moral equivalency between the U.S. and the terrorists who perpetrated the attacks.

 

[tecoyah]

Perhaps renaming this thread "question for Noam Chomsky about militant Islam".....would be a good Idea?

 

[Monk-Eye]

Thing 1 And Thing 2

"Thing 1 And Thing 2"

quite short really
why is it that all the apologies for a militant islam come from the liberal left when it stands for everything the liberal left opposes?

Do you mean the doctrine of islam rejects civil liberties such as abortion, freedom of speech, sexual equality, religious freedom, social equality, and a list of social behaviors yet, civil libertarians (limits government social involvement) which are also economic conservatives (promotes government economic involvement), collectively identified as the liberal left, overlook the threat to the former ideology?

Islam, as yet, has no numerical advantage in the US, and thus no current interest in pushing the issues. The liberal left see the organized christian pursuits as most threatening. One enemy is pitted against to divide, and if nothing other than to be vindictive.

The most obscure concept of civil libertarians is that outside of their own limited political sphere, the right to defend oneself against unlawful agression is personal.
Civil libertarians find no responsibility to convert other cultures - no matter how mundane.
It adheres to an anthropological position of objectivity and moral relativism.
Why are they unable to apply moral relativism to their own behavior and commit agression under the pretense that it is self defense?

 

[niftydrifty]

Perhaps renaming this thread "question for Noam Chomsky about militant Islam".....would be a good Idea?

to his credit, TOT was merely responding to the questions posed, essentially, "what liberals have ever defended militant Islam?" mikhail made that charge but neglected to name names. the problem with TOT's post of course is that Chomsky is not an apologist for militant Islam. Chomsky is a responsible citizen, not an irresponsible citizen. responsible citizens criticize their own government when their own government is screwed up, and on occasion is just as terror-inducing as the terror-supporting regimes it criticizes. irresponsible citizens refuse to see it. this is not defending militant Islam.

TOT seems not to realize that Chomsky criticized both al Qaeda and Clinton in the article he posted. TOT himself could've written it! TOT, in his partisanship, has overlooked statements such as the following, and has chosen to make stuff up about Chomsky.

"The September 11 attacks were major atrocities." - Noam Chomsky

what US liberal has ever apologized for militant Islam?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

to his credit, TOT was merely responding to the questions posed, essentially, "what liberals have ever defended militant Islam?" mikhail made that charge but neglected to name names. the problem with TOT's post of course is that Chomsky is not an apologist for militant Islam. Chomsky is a responsible citizen, not an irresponsible citizen.

Responsible citizens would go to North Vietnam during the height of the war and do a cheerleading speech for the communists in Hanoi? Responsible citizens would be apologists for the Kymer Rouge?

Responsible citizens criticize their own government when their own government is screwed up, and on occasion is just as terror-inducing as the terror-supporting regimes it criticizes. irresponsible citizens refuse to see it. this is not defending militant Islam.

TOT seems not to realize that Chomsky criticized both al Qaeda and Clinton in the article he posted. TOT himself could've written it! TOT, in his partisanship, has overlooked statements such as the following, and has chosen to make stuff up about Chomsky.

"The September 11 attacks were major atrocities." - Noam Chomsky

what US liberal has ever apologized for militant Islam?

No I didn't infact what I said was: "he uses one ****ing line at the begining to condemn the 9-11 attacks and then goes on an essay long vitriolic anti-American rant making excuses for the attacks, trying to justify said attack, and drawing a moral equivalency between the U.S. and the terrorists who perpetrated the attacks." One line condeming the attacks and an entire article critisizing the U.S.'s foreign policy in a blatant blame the victim piece of propaganda.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

to his credit, TOT was merely responding to the questions posed, essentially, "what liberals have ever defended militant Islam?" mikhail made that charge but neglected to name names. the problem with TOT's post of course is that Chomsky is not an apologist for militant Islam. Chomsky is a responsible citizen, not an irresponsible citizen.

Responsible citizens would go to North Vietnam during the height of the war and do a cheerleading speech for the communists in Hanoi? Responsible citizens would be apologists for the Kymer Rouge?

Responsible citizens criticize their own government when their own government is screwed up, and on occasion is just as terror-inducing as the terror-supporting regimes it criticizes. irresponsible citizens refuse to see it. this is not defending militant Islam.

TOT seems not to realize that Chomsky criticized both al Qaeda and Clinton in the article he posted. TOT himself could've written it! TOT, in his partisanship, has overlooked statements such as the following, and has chosen to make stuff up about Chomsky.

"The September 11 attacks were major atrocities." - Noam Chomsky

what US liberal has ever apologized for militant Islam?

No I didn't infact what I said was: "he uses one ****ing line at the begining to condemn the 9-11 attacks and then goes on an essay long vitriolic anti-American rant making excuses for the attacks, trying to justify said attack, and drawing a moral equivalency between the U.S. and the terrorists who perpetrated the attacks." One line condeming the attacks and an entire article critisizing the U.S.'s foreign policy in a blatant blame the victim piece of propaganda.

 

[niftydrifty]

um, hello? nice to hear your opinions about stuff in the 60's, but what about the question I asked relevant to the thread?

...vitriolic anti-American rant making excuses for the attacks, trying to justify said attack...

where does Chomsky do that?

TOT, what US liberal has ever apologized for militant Islam?

PS: Chomsky is not a liberal, he is an anarchist.

 

[Iriemon]

um, hello? nice to hear your opinions about stuff in the 60's, but what about the question I asked relevant to the thread?

where does Chomsky do that?

TOT, what US liberal has ever apologized for militant Islam?

PS: Chomsky is not a liberal, he is an anarchist.

I wondered the same thing. I know nothing about Chomsky, but I don't see where he was apologizing for the 9-11 attackers, or excusing their attacks.

He suggested that we consider whether US policies have and are likely to provoke more such attacks.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to consider to me. But to the rabid right, any questioning of US policy means you are apologizing for the bad guys.

 

[Cephus]

examples, please.

They don't have any, it's more a matter of the far-right defining anyone who has ever defended anything militant Muslims have done as the liberal left, regardless of their true political views.

 

[oldreliable67]

quite short really

why is it that all the apologies for a militant islam come from the liberal left when it stands for everything the liberal left opposes?

Reading something in an article about Thomas Jefferson by Christopher Hitchens which reminded me of this thread. Hitchens writes about America's first confrontation with the Muslim world:

But one cannot get around what [Thomas] Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli’s ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America’s two foremost envoys were informed that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)

Ambassador Abd Al-Rahman did not fail to mention the size of his own commission, if America chose to pay the protection money demanded as an alternative to piracy. So here was an early instance of the “heads I win, tails you lose” dilemma, in which the United States is faced with corrupt regimes, on the one hand, and Islamic militants, on the other—or indeed a collusion between them.

[emphasis added]

Thus, even in the late 1700s and early 1800s, Muslim governments heeded the call of Koran to kill those they considered as infidels.

Note that Hitchens is not writing about militant Islamists, as we have come to use the adjective today; he writes about the Islamists governing the Muslim nations of the time.

Today's general apathy and near surrender of the West in the face of a determined assault from a religious ideology, or an ideological religion, afflicted by no sickly doubt about what it wants or by any scruples about how to get it stands in sharp contrast of "...to the shores of Tripoli."