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Question for California residents, what keeps you there?

For California residents, why not just sell your house and buy something much cheaper elseware?

  • The high prices are worth living in California.

    Votes: 10 58.8%
  • I am actually considering doing that.

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • Other.

    Votes: 5 29.4%

  • Total voters
    17
We live in a society, from socius in Latin, meaning ally. All the developed world decided generations ago that "no man is an island," as John Donne said. We created systems to file the rough edges off of capitalism. You can seal yourself off from the world, but the rest of us will continue helping one another. Conservatives can point out the flaws in what we lefties advocate, as as such they are useful, even essential. Thus your comment on Berkeley's gas prohibition might make sense, as on the other hand does cutting fossil fuel use. I hate electric stoves, for example, but could live with them if necessary to help save the planet.

We don't need to save the planet, the planet is fine. But prohibiting gas stoves, water heaters, and furnaces, means some working poor people will pay much more to heat things using electric, and so what about those folks? What about your no man is an island then when we are forcing higher and higher costs on poor? What happens when California finally bans gas cars? A new car today may average about 40k, how to poor people afford that? Especially when they can still get reliable used gas vehicles to drive much cheaper.
Your phrase "low income renters who should not be there" gains you another Marie Antoinette award, with oak leaf clusters. Precious. Your comments remind me of those of Commies I ran into in the 1960s-70s, so absolutely convinced of the inerrancy of Marxism-Leninism, only you take on different tack, that of fascism.
Fascism??? What the hell???

I already said I have no problem with low income people, but they need to figure out how to live within their means. It's called a free market.

Of course these unworthy lower forms of life shouldn't be in your presence. They are not worthy. Dream on behind your castle walls. But Francisco Franco is dead.
They may get inside the walls, but they need to earn that and pay their own way the same way I did and everyone else. What is the point of working to earn something for yourself if all the socialists do is give away what you earned? Go ahead and pay their way if it makes you feel better, nothing stopping you from giving up your home and you move into their tent is there? Where is that "no man is an island" now?
 
We live in a society, from socius in Latin, meaning ally. All the developed world decided generations ago that "no man is an island," as John Donne said. We created systems to file the rough edges off of capitalism. You can seal yourself off from the world, but the rest of us will continue helping one another. Conservatives can point out the flaws in what we lefties advocate, as as such they are useful, even essential. Thus your comment on Berkeley's gas prohibition might make sense, as on the other hand does cutting fossil fuel use. I hate electric stoves, for example, but could live with them if necessary to help save the planet.

Your phrase "low income renters who should not be there" gains you another Marie Antoinette award, with oak leaf clusters. Precious. Your comments remind me of those of Commies I ran into in the 1960s-70s, so absolutely convinced of the inerrancy of Marxism-Leninism, only you take on different tack, that of fascism. Of course these unworthy lower forms of life shouldn't be in your presence. They are not worthy. Dream on behind your castle walls. But Francisco Franco is dead.
Francisco Franco created a much better society then the current left has. In any event most of the poor in modern society have atrocious habits and cannot reform because leftists tell them they’re the victims of society. So really the best choice is to live somewhere else,

The rest of your rant is a word salad not making any particular point.
 
I imagine most people buying in California are rich already. They likely are investing in rental properties or something of the sort.

although I’ve never been there so I’m probably talking out of my ass.

Actually, it's a illegal alien/poor immigrant haven and Homeless haven
 
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But I'd have to live in Saint Louis. What the hell am I going to do in Saint Louis?
I just gave it as an example city, but there is actually quite a lot to do there.
 
I stay for two major reasons:

1) Climate...climate...climate. It's not the ocean, nor the mountains, nor the cultural or dining attractions. I'm old, I enjoy my rose garden, and nothing is more pleasant that living is a place where the fog usually cools the summers (in the morning), when its is dry heat, and the winters have no snow. For me there is not another climate in the United States, including in Southern California, that I love more...after all, my roses bloom from mid April through October or later.

2) My best friend. If he moves, I'll move but not before.

Surprisingly, here in Kansas City roses (depending on the variety) typically bloom from May through most of October. This year its been delayed some due to a chilly spring. We had 4 inches of snow in late April. Spring here is often a disappointment with nice warm days interspersed with cold, windy days. For example, it will be in around 70 degrees today, but a few days ago we didn't get out of the 40s. January days here can be as warm as the upper 50s, but can also be down below zero. Our coldest morning this last winter hit -21 in the outlying suburbs, but thats quite unusual for us, though I think we do average 5 days a winter when the temps drop below zero.

Where I grew up around Hot Springs Arkansas, really cold weather was almost unheard of and it only dropped below the teens maybe once ever 20 or 30 years. If we got snow, it almost always melted the day it fell, and most winter days were in the 50s and 60s. We still have a family home down there. This last February there was a record breaking cold spell and over 2 feet of snow fell in just a couple of days or so. Nobody down there had ever seen anything like it. It ended up killing all the small palm trees people had growing around town. The summers down there were very hot and very humid. Most days in July and August would be in the upper 90s and insanely humid. People spend their summers at the lakes and swimming holes in the clear mountain rivers. Though, you could escape the heat by going to the top of a handful of the tallest mountains in the Ouachitas. Rich mountain and Magazine Mountain are usually about 20 degrees cooler at the top than in the valleys and seldom get above the low 80s even during the hottest parts of summer.

Anyway, there is a reason why many Southern cities never took off population wise until A/C was invented.
 
I did not grow up there, but visited during youth, and later I lived there for decades.... I moved back to the region I grew up to help family .... I had a nice home and even after being outsourced, I could have continued to have lucrative work.
I watched and saw many changes and much outgrowth to expanded areas that took place in California. I did all the promoted stuff, such as the beaches the entertainment, and all of the various cultural things, the sights and enjoyed the well maintained parks and communities, and certainly enjoyed the weather.

My transition was relatively smooth, it took a bit to get reemployed but I had bought multiple properties and took an attempt at starting a business, the economy tanked, but I have a nice home, nice yard, nice community and I can do pretty much anything here that I enjoyed doing there. The difference is the weather, and in some places, the overall infrastructure in other places is not as good as some places in California. California people are innovative, and many places adopt many things from California, which many may think they don't, but California is often 20-30 yrs ahead of a great many places, by the time some place adopt some of the things advanced in California, California by then has moved on to the next level of advancing themselves.

Many who bash California, likely have never been there, if some only went on a limited vacation and made grand assumptions, but did not know California, because they were not there long enough to learn it.
Environmental Awareness in California has been ahead of place like the South, the Mid West, and Other places in the country, and what they have done decades ago, some places are just now learning they need to be concerned about these things.
The property I have now, would cost me well over 1mil if it were in California. I have no problem with it, because home is what you make it.

California has different climates in different portions of the States, so it really depends on what region one is living or have lived.

Every places has some plus and minus... about them. I liked a variety of places I've been, Hawaiian weather is fantastic, Thailand weather is hot and muggy, but the atmosphere for me was enjoyable, Costa Rica was very nice and the climate was good, Hong Kong was hot, especially in July and August, but it too was interesting had a variety of varying environments, Macau was interesting but growing when I was there, and Japan was interesting. As are many places across this nation, I did not like the Cold in Chicago, I did not like the stormy condition in Newark, and I never went to New York but my interest there was most in the massive structures if I ever decide to go, I will want to take a helicopter ride over it. I think I'd like to see Virginia, I liked what I saw of the history in Washington DC. I liked South Beach in Miami, but I don't think I care for the commentary that comes out of the States overall, but then I've never been to other places there.

I've never cared to live in any downtown metro areas, in any of the places, because I like the pace of the suburban areas more. I like to visit out in the Country places, because of the quiet of nature and its beauty, but not out in the boonies, because I'm not into hunting and such, but I will go fishing.
I was never interested in Hiking, but I like nature, and there are many ways to enjoy it without the rigors of hiking. I even liked the Desert cities, when I was in the Military, because it has its uniqueness. Arizona's dry heat is something one has to get use to.

Overall- its up to the individual as to what they like. I now make my little garden, i feed the birds, and I don't like snakes!!!!
 
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First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

Last year, for the first time in the state's history, it lost population. I suspect it is because once people saw they could work remotely, they decided to live and work from somewhere that was much cheaper to live and work from.

For example, let's say you bought this home 15 years ago for $495k, today you can get $900k for it and pocket $500k or more in equity.

You could move to Saint Louis and buy this home for $229k, it's bigger, its in a hip neighborhood, and you would probably pocket $300k and have a house that was paid for, so what is keeping you in California? (you can find homes in similar price ranges in many cities all over the country)

Comp St Louis salaries and Bay Area salaries and lemme know what you do for money after you bought your dream house in Missouri. People live where they can find jobs. CA’s problems are related to her size and population. Any problems in a state this big are going to be magnified.

This weird obsession with proving Ca is a failed state is a right wing fantasy.
 
I echo the sentiments of my fellow residents. I love being here. Some of the things I really treasure about California, as a born-and-raised midwesterner who moved out here:
  • Every climate I want just a drive away. From where I am right now, one hour to the west takes me to an ocean beach for surfing. One hour to the north has me in lush dense forests and hills. Three hours NE and I'm skiing. Three hours SW and I'm in the desert looking at crazy cacti. It's hard to duplicate that.
  • I love the overall attitude and atmosphere. People love to innovate here. There's a reason LA has been the hub of entertainment/culture and SF the hub of technology innovation for so long. "Rest on laurels" and "prioritize keeping our traditions" don't seem so common here.
  • I love the fact that most of the state prizes the environment and wants to keep it clean. Even California Republicans are often staunch environmentalists fighting to combat climate change, something just about unheard of in all the other states.
  • It's diverse. There are many major cities and they all have their unique attitude or spirit. It's hard to put in words.
  • PCH is one of the best drives on the planet, bar none.
I don't think I'd retire here.... but living here? Raising a family here? Unbeatable.

When it comes to summer vacations, I am not traveling to the midwest as much these days since all my family back home clamors to travel and vacation out here!
Great Comment..... I think people don't realize how one can get to so many different environment within just an hour or two of driving in any direction in California. Then there is the cultural diversity that one can find communities of different flavors of what different cultures do to make their environments have a unique feel.

  • One really good things about California, one can find a date or a mate from any ethnicity of people on the planet, and everyone is not tripping about it.

I'm pretty settled where I am now, I don't care so much for the fact that the area does have Tornado's and Hurricanes.... and its not as polished as California and it does not have anything close to the economic opportunities that are present in California. I often ask myself, If I hit the lottery, would I go back? I'm pretty sure I'd buy a home there, so I can go when I want and stay as long or as short as I want as frequent as I want. Then, I'd also buy one in some foreign locations that I like.
 
Actually, it's a illegal alien/poor immigrant haven and Homeless haven
I don't think people have interacted with immigrants to truly learn, that legal or illegal, these are good people, hard working and they are very family oriented. One thing about Immigrant workers, legal or illegal, they have a "can do" attitude... when it comes to work. They are not quick to say they can't do something when it comes to work to earn for their family.

As to homeless, there is that in every state.

Ronald Reagan's actions dramatically increased homelessness when he took all the funding from mental health care, and took more and made community college no longer as free as they were, and dramatically caused the cost of State Universities to Skyrocket. then add in the Drug Saturation that was spread across the country from all the Cocaine that Regan's Administration brought into the country, there was not many families in the country that was not impacted by the impacts of Cocaine Saturation that led to the greatest Crack Epidemic across this nation. The Cocaine Train of Reagan impacted Mexico and Central America that has led to a lot of the devastations that people are leaving those places trying to get away from. Those things Reagan's Admin did had and continue to have long term impacts!!!
 
Comp St Louis salaries and Bay Area salaries and lemme know what you do for money after you bought your dream house in Missouri. People live where they can find jobs. CA’s problems are related to her size and population. Any problems in a state this big are going to be magnified.

This weird obsession with proving Ca is a failed state is a right wing fantasy.

I am not in anyway arguing that CA is a failed state so I am not sure where you are getting that from.

Average Lead DevOps Engineer salary in San Francisco: $159,761

Average Lead DevOps Engineer salary in Kansas City (where I live): $119,278

I am using that example because thats what I do, and since it's a tech job, it would have the greatest disparity in average salaries.

So the difference is 40k a year.

When you factor in taxes:

Average take home pay for a Lead DevOps Engineer in San Francisco: $8594 a month

Average take home pay for a Lead DevOps Engineer in Kansas City: $6846 a month

So the difference in take home pay a month is around $1748

Median home sales price in San Francisco: $1,453,455

Median home sales price in Kansas City: $253,578

Let's say you found a deal in San Francisco and you got a place for $980k. Your estimated monthly payment with tax and insurance, $4853

In comparison, let's say you wanted to live in the Crossroads area of KC (very hip, walkable neighborhood), you buy a 2 bedroom condo (much larger than what you got for 980k in San Francisco) for $299k. Your estimated monthly payment with tax and insurance $2016.

So even if you splurged on location, the differences in your house payment is $2800 less a month than what you would pay for housing in the Bay Area, which makes your salary worth another $1000 a month in disposable income, despite the differences in pay.

Salaries in the St. Louis area are similar, but since that home example I gave is less expensive, you would have close to $1800 more a month in disposable income in St. Louis, assuming a person bought that old French row home.

Another interesting comparison is Chicago to the Bay Area because the salaries are roughly the same between the two, but housing is only a little more expensive in Chicago than it is here in KC so the same DevOps job in Chicago would result in around $2800 more a month in disposable income in Chicago compared to the Bay Area.
 
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So the difference is 40k a year.

When you factor in taxes:

Average take home pay for a Lead DevOps Engineer in San Francisco: $8594 a month

Average take home pay for a Lead DevOps Engineer in Kansas City: $6846 a month

So the difference in take home pay a month is around $1748

Median home sales price in San Francisco: $1,453,455

Median home sales price in Kansas City: $253,578

You can show me all day long that KC is cheaper than SF, so? The things that make it cheaper are also the things that make up teh differences between living and working in the two locations. Dev Ops roles in the Bay Area are plentiful, and companies are constantly hiring. KC does not have nearly as big of an industry/talent pool. So yes, a dev ops person can do just fine in KC, but if they lose their job in KC, they may have to start looking in the Bay Area if they want to maintain a 6 figure salary.

And you chose SF, the single most expensive city in the country, to make your comp. You haven’t made a case that KC is inherently a preferable place to SF, just that it’s cheaper. Hondas are good cars, no doubt.

We know it’s cheaper. Lots of things are cheaper. That’s a personal living choice, not a symbol of CA rot.
 
Actually, it's a illegal alien/poor immigrant haven and Homeless haven

I don't think people have interacted with immigrants to truly learn, that legal or illegal, these are good people, hard working and they are very family oriented. One thing about Immigrant workers, legal or illegal, they have a "can do" attitude... when it comes to work. They are not quick to say they can't do something when it comes to work to earn for their family.

As to homeless, there is that in every state.

Ronald Reagan's actions dramatically increased homelessness when he took all the funding from mental health care, and took more and made community college no longer as free as they were, and dramatically caused the cost of State Universities to Skyrocket. then add in the Drug Saturation that was spread across the country from all the Cocaine that Regan's Administration brought into the country, there was not many families in the country that was not impacted by the impacts of Cocaine Saturation that led to the greatest Crack Epidemic across this nation. The Cocaine Train of Reagan impacted Mexico and Central America that has led to a lot of the devastations that people are leaving those places trying to get away from. Those things Reagan's Admin did had and continue to have long term impacts!!!
It does not occur to reasonable Americans to consider or call some people we encounter as "illegal". Why do it? Get a life, for chrissake!

A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672
"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally," Ronald Reagan said in 1984.."

Do not take the name of Saint Reagan in vain. Teamed with the NRA, he endorsed and signed the most significant gun control legislation in California history.:
"...later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will." In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act "would work no hardship on the honest citizen."[1].."

Today, Reagan would be as popular with Trump supporters as Liz Cheney.

This came on the heals of Reagan's undermining of free speech rights.

Hoover, Reagan, and Spying at Berkeley

 
It does not occur to reasonable Americans to consider or call some people we encounter as "illegal". Why do it? Get a life, for chrissake!

A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672
"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally," Ronald Reagan said in 1984.."

Do not take the name of Saint Reagan in vain. Teamed with the NRA, he endorsed and signed the most significant gun control legislation in California history.:
"...later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will." In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act "would work no hardship on the honest citizen."[1].."

Today, Reagan would be as popular with Trump supporters as Liz Cheney.

This came on the heals of Reagan's undermining of free speech rights.

Hoover, Reagan, and Spying at Berkeley

I was referring to the comment I responded to, regarding the use of the word "Illegal".
I see them as "people" who are trying to make a life. I've worked with people who were within the Immigration process, and many have done various works for me, who were working their way to get into the immigration process.

As to Reagan he may have done things that were beneficial, but the damages that drug caused, no help for the mentally ill, and the damage to the education system, has very devastating consequences. I did not like him when he was President, and I'm not going to start liking him now.
I bought my first house during the Reagan Administration, @ above 10% interest rate. I saw what he did with the Air Traffic Controllers, and how how his de-regulation saw the demise of Legacy Airlines. I had association with those businesses and know first hand the devastation it caused.
I also saw entire areas fall into rapid decline with the Cocaine Epidemic. As to guns, there were more guns saturated across Central America under Reagan with his Iran-Contra situation, and there was a lot of weaponry that went to the Cartels.
I also so what the Cocaine Money did to America, a lot was built, but the prices in each of the key points of drug entry skyrocketed, the price went up as the M1 money supply moved from Florida across to California, and that movement was in direct sync with the drug importation, which also moved from Florida to California.
The cycle that was started, the Just Say No, did not work to roll back what had been put in motion.
There was a lot within his administration including the good, the bad and the ugly. We are today still dealing with the ramification of what deregulation caused, and we saw the drug thing morph from cocaine, to meth, to a spike in heroin to Oxy.... these things are no without linkage.

We spent a lot of money in Central America, fighting, but we did not follow up, with "building up" as the Contra-Sandinista thing died down. instead there was even more polarizations that came in the aftermath. Then we simply "stepped away".
 
You can show me all day long that KC is cheaper than SF, so? The things that make it cheaper are also the things that make up teh differences between living and working in the two locations. Dev Ops roles in the Bay Area are plentiful, and companies are constantly hiring. KC does not have nearly as big of an industry/talent pool. So yes, a dev ops person can do just fine in KC, but if they lose their job in KC, they may have to start looking in the Bay Area if they want to maintain a 6 figure salary.

And you chose SF, the single most expensive city in the country, to make your comp. You haven’t made a case that KC is inherently a preferable place to SF, just that it’s cheaper. Hondas are good cars, no doubt.

We know it’s cheaper. Lots of things are cheaper. That’s a personal living choice, not a symbol of CA rot.
I don't understand where this hostility is coming from. I am not attacking California, I just asked the question that in a world now where many jobs can be done remotely, is it tempting to sell a home there and buy much cheaper somewhere else. It's a question based in curiosity, not hostility.

As to tech jobs, they are very plentiful in every major city, not just California cities. For example, here if we don't snatch up a good software engineer, chances are another company will hire them before the day is out.
 
I am not in anyway arguing that CA is a failed state so I am not sure where you are getting that from.

Average Lead DevOps Engineer salary in San Francisco: $159,761

Average Lead DevOps Engineer salary in Kansas City (where I live): $119,278

I am using that example because thats what I do, and since it's a tech job, it would have the greatest disparity in average salaries.

So the difference is 40k a year.

When you factor in taxes:

Average take home pay for a Lead DevOps Engineer in San Francisco: $8594 a month

Average take home pay for a Lead DevOps Engineer in Kansas City: $6846 a month

So the difference in take home pay a month is around $1748

Median home sales price in San Francisco: $1,453,455

Median home sales price in Kansas City: $253,578

Let's say you found a deal in San Francisco and you got a place for $980k. Your estimated monthly payment with tax and insurance, $4853

In comparison, let's say you wanted to live in the Crossroads area of KC (very hip, walkable neighborhood), you buy a 2 bedroom condo (much larger than what you got for 980k in San Francisco) for $299k. Your estimated monthly payment with tax and insurance $2016.

So even if you splurged on location, the differences in your house payment is $2800 less a month than what you would pay for housing in the Bay Area, which makes your salary worth another $1000 a month in disposable income, despite the differences in pay.

Salaries in the St. Louis area are similar, but since that home example I gave is less expensive, you would have close to $1800 more a month in disposable income in St. Louis, assuming a person bought that old French row home.

Another interesting comparison is Chicago to the Bay Area because the salaries are roughly the same between the two, but housing is only a little more expensive in Chicago than it is here in KC so the same DevOps job in Chicago would result in around $2800 more a month in disposable income in Chicago compared to the Bay Area.
FYI - most of the metrics I see like this refer to base salary and the numbers shown are consistent with base salary. No one in tech comes to Silicon Valley for base salary. They come here for two reasons:

- The stock; either through RSU grants at a larger company, or through hopes of acquisition or IPO for a smaller one. This is where the bulk of the income comes from, and it [relatively safely] pays for the house in a few years if you land at one of the big tech companies. If you're at a startup you're rolling the dice of potentially even higher rewards vs. the above base salary alone.

- The people and the company; nowhere else will you find the concentration talent to surround your hypothetical engineer to help him/her grow further, nor the sufficiently well funded environments to let that engineer fully spread his or her wings. Nothing against Kansas City but if I'm a top performing young person looking to work with the very best, there are other places I'll look at first. (And by no means does California have an exhaustive lock on this, as those living in Austin, TX are no doubt aware, for example.)

I fully understand that this has created a huge economic class problem in the Bay Area that you are comparing to - an engineer working here with stock will make FAR more than his or her counterpart in Chicago. Virtually anyone else will see a slightly higher income but as you mention, not always enough to offset the difference in cost of living. Those people are increasingly confronted by two choices: move further and further out, trading high cost of living for terrible commutes because all the other benefits of being in California make it worth it, or leave the state altogether.

Certainly, when it comes to retirement I'm not sure I'd want to stay here.
 
I was referring to the comment I responded to, regarding the use of the word "Illegal".
I see them as "people" who are trying to make a life. I've worked with people who were within the Immigration process, and many have done various works for me, who were working their way to get into the immigration process.

As to Reagan he may have done things that were beneficial, but the damages that drug caused, no help for the mentally ill, and the damage to the education system, has very devastating consequences. I did not like him when he was President, and I'm not going to start liking him now.
I bought my first house during the Reagan Administration, @ above 10% interest rate. I saw what he did with the Air Traffic Controllers, and how how his de-regulation saw the demise of Legacy Airlines. I had association with those businesses and know first hand the devastation it caused.
I also saw entire areas fall into rapid decline with the Cocaine Epidemic. As to guns, there were more guns saturated across Central America under Reagan with his Iran-Contra situation, and there was a lot of weaponry that went to the Cartels.
I also so what the Cocaine Money did to America, a lot was built, but the prices in each of the key points of drug entry skyrocketed, the price went up as the M1 money supply moved from Florida across to California, and that movement was in direct sync with the drug importation, which also moved from Florida to California.
The cycle that was started, the Just Say No, did not work to roll back what had been put in motion.
There was a lot within his administration including the good, the bad and the ugly. We are today still dealing with the ramification of what deregulation caused, and we saw the drug thing morph from cocaine, to meth, to a spike in heroin to Oxy.... these things are no without linkage.

We spent a lot of money in Central America, fighting, but we did not follow up, with "building up" as the Contra-Sandinista thing died down. instead there was even more polarizations that came in the aftermath. Then we simply "stepped away".
My point was that Reagan was "the worst of the worst" until the two Bushes, except they weren't as racist and then Trump made
Reagan look like a racist wannabe.
The air traffic controllers betrayal was wreckless, especially coming from the former leader of SAG.
The market interest rate on my first home mortgage was 14 percent, got an FHA loan that took 3 months to process and the seller
had agreed to pay all points, six when they signed the agreement. The points rose to nine by the day of the closing.
I'll never forget the climax at the closing sale when the seller got loud, threatening not to complete the sale, in reaction to the increaesed
points they had to pay. The seller and both realtors were in a shouting match, quieted only when my lawyer broke his silence, slamming his fists on the table and declaring, "this isn't a trial". He instructed the two realtors to leave the room and come back when they could act
like professionals. When they returned they advised the seller that they agreed to cut their sales commission by a third to ease the seller's unexpected extra expense of the increased points.

The recent extended run since March, 2009 will end and probably take Biden down with it. Many today have no idea how different conditions were between 1970 and 1995. The Dow DJIA fell below 600 in 1974, coinciding with the Arab oil export halt, after failing to hold 1,000 in 1973. The index rise in the late 1970s was due to inflation price adjustment. Working people put their money in CDs. Five percent interest on a savings account was considered low. There was nowhere near the asset price appreciation or the speculative "investment" we experience since the late 1990s.

1621005295119.png
 
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Comp St Louis salaries and Bay Area salaries and lemme know what you do for money after you bought your dream house in Missouri. People live where they can find jobs. CA’s problems are related to her size and population. Any problems in a state this big are going to be magnified.

This weird obsession with proving Ca is a failed state is a right wing fantasy.
It is not a failed state. Yet. It will be in a generation. And in reality if they didn’t have the resources in the wealth to steal from the red states, California would collapse within a couple of years. It is basically Brazil North, with a caste of poor and wealthy with no middle class.
 
It is not a failed state. Yet. It will be in a generation. And in reality if they didn’t have the resources in the wealth to steal from the red states, California would collapse within a couple of years. It is basically Brazil North, with a caste of poor and wealthy with no middle class.
You cannot support that claim with facts, so why post it. They are "bled dry" by the parasitic red states, each Californian "enjoying" just
1/65th of the US Senate representation of a Wyoming resident. A near fascist SCOTUS majority is a direct result, see the Citizens United "ruling" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC resulting in...

Leaked Video: Dark Money Group Brags About Writing GOP Voter Suppression Bills Across the Country

www.motherjones.com.ico
Mother Jones|20 hours ago
In a private meeting last month with big-money donors, the head of a top conservative group boasted that her outfit had crafted the new voter suppression law in Georgia and was doing the same with similar bills for Republican state legislators across the country.
 
You cannot support that claim with facts, so why post it. They are "bled dry" by the parasitic red states, each Californian "enjoying" just
1/65th of the US Senate representation of a Wyoming resident. A near fascist SCOTUS majority is a direct result, see the Citizens United "ruling" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC resulting in...

Leaked Video: Dark Money Group Brags About Writing GOP Voter Suppression Bills Across the Country

www.motherjones.com.ico
Mother Jones|20 hours ago
In a private meeting last month with big-money donors, the head of a top conservative group boasted that her outfit had crafted the new voter suppression law in Georgia and was doing the same with similar bills for Republican state legislators across the country.
No, they’re not. California can only exist in its current form within a trade and foreign relations apparatus provided for by the US as a whole.
 
Reply to Post 93

I don't think many people especially those with selective Amnesia, understand how much damage Reagan did and how many things he damaged.

Many of the Right Winger don't remember, By 1989, more than 1,000 of the nation's savings and loans had failed. The crisis cost $160 billion.

$160,000,000,000,000 in 1980 is worth $518,551,456,310,679.56 today -​

Banking crisis, during the 1980s and early 1990s, ranks as one of the worst global credit disasters in history. (attributed to Ronald Reagan's Administration)

That's massive devastation when one look back and see what the 1980 figures could actually purchase. The actual valuation loss that Reagan's admin cost is tremendous. Deregulations cost California great losses, it led to many of the Aerospace Corp, exiting looking for States that embraced Reagans Deregulation. We saw the Automobile industry produce pure "crap", and that gave us what? "the K car" and the automotive industry tanked severely, the devastation that was left in Detroit is still a madness they can't figure out how to dig out of. GM once built nine of every 20 new cars sold in America between 1950 and early 1980's, its market dominance simply eroded. Along with the other two of Detroit's "Big Three" automakers.

People seem to have forgotten about Michael Milliken's Junk Bonds of the 1980's: Michael Milken, the “junk bond king” who was charged with insider trading in the 1980s, was granted clemency by President Trump. The criminal gang continued into the Trump Admin, "
quote
Milliken had a coterie of Trump confidants championing his case. Nelson Peltz, a billionaire who threw Trump a fundraiser Saturday night, backed pardoning Milken, as did billionaire political donors Sheldon and Miriam Adelson, New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, Fox host Maria Bartiromo, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao and some of Trump’s New York friends.
end quote

Many Right Winger don't have the attention span to recall these things. They devote themselves to worshiping anyone who gets on the stump and promote "Belligerence". It started with Barry Goldwater, who Mixed Race with Pandering to the Wealthy of attacked Federal Regulatory Governance, to a whole new level.
This is the history of Republicanism ....

California worked itself from under the Reagan Governorship damages, but again got hit onslaught of damages caused and created by the Reagan Presidency before he left office. Properties that during the late 1970's that were selling for 30+k, suddenly became $60+K and never stabilized after that. Communities began to change, because there was high interest, busted Unions, stagnant wages, a devastated auto industry, which so much of American had been tied to, was all broken during Reagan's Administration. I watched Firestone and Good Year Tire Plants move out of LA during the Reagan's Governorship and so much began to decline of various industries and whole segments were left challenged as both main and the collateral businesses that relied on the main corps failed.

Republicanism has never been good for America and the Concept of Conservatism is pure "bullshit", it is about the wealth, not about America, and Conservatism only means, hold back everything from the public and feed anything and everything that can be fed to the wealthy. PERIOD!!!

If any person want a fair deal within any kind of business, avoid "Conservatives"; dealing with them, it is a given that you will get ripped, and the fine print will always strip away any recourse to recover the damages done to you. California had to learn it the hard way... But now they know!!! except some sectors that are still with Republican enclaves.
 
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I don't understand where this hostility is coming from. I am not attacking California, I just asked the question that in a world now where many jobs can be done remotely, is it tempting to sell a home there and buy much cheaper somewhere else. It's a question based in curiosity, not hostility.

As to tech jobs, they are very plentiful in every major city, not just California cities. For example, here if we don't snatch up a good software engineer, chances are another company will hire them before the day is out.

I’m sorry, that’s just incorrect. Most of the industry is in CA, thus this is where the talent pool lives.

I”m not hostile. I just don’t understand why you’ve decided that owning a home is literally the only criteria someone would apply to where they live. It’s myopic.
 
It is not a failed state. Yet. It will be in a generation. And in reality if they didn’t have the resources in the wealth to steal from the red states, California would collapse within a couple of years. It is basically Brazil North, with a caste of poor and wealthy with no middle class.
Do you have any idea how big California and what its population is?
You seem to like making a joke of yourself. California provides the federal government with money that much of it ends up being spent to prop up red states.
California paves the pathway into the 21st Century .... quote "What happened politically in California about 15 years ago is hitting America now, and what’s happening politically now in California will hit the rest of America over the next 15 years." end quote

16 mind-blowing facts about California's economy

quote California is one of the major economic engines of the United States.
With a population of more than 39 million people, the Golden State has the most people of any US state, and drives many of the nation's cultural trends.
The state has an incredibly diverse economy, with Hollywood, Silicon Valley, manufacturing, and agriculture all making significant contributions.
With such a dynamic economy, California is full of mind-blowing facts and figures. end quote
 
Surprisingly, here in Kansas City roses (depending on the variety) typically bloom from May through most of October. This year its been delayed some due to a chilly spring. We had 4 inches of snow in late April. Spring here is often a disappointment with nice warm days interspersed with cold, windy days. For example, it will be in around 70 degrees today, but a few days ago we didn't get out of the 40s. January days here can be as warm as the upper 50s, but can also be down below zero. Our coldest morning this last winter hit -21 in the outlying suburbs, but thats quite unusual for us, though I think we do average 5 days a winter when the temps drop below zero.

Where I grew up around Hot Springs Arkansas, really cold weather was almost unheard of and it only dropped below the teens maybe once ever 20 or 30 years. If we got snow, it almost always melted the day it fell, and most winter days were in the 50s and 60s. We still have a family home down there. This last February there was a record breaking cold spell and over 2 feet of snow fell in just a couple of days or so. Nobody down there had ever seen anything like it. It ended up killing all the small palm trees people had growing around town. The summers down there were very hot and very humid. Most days in July and August would be in the upper 90s and insanely humid. People spend their summers at the lakes and swimming holes in the clear mountain rivers. Though, you could escape the heat by going to the top of a handful of the tallest mountains in the Ouachitas. Rich mountain and Magazine Mountain are usually about 20 degrees cooler at the top than in the valleys and seldom get above the low 80s even during the hottest parts of summer.

Anyway, there is a reason why many Southern cities never took off population wise until A/C was invented.

I lived in Oklahoma for 10 years. Worst climate I have lived in. 95 degree days throughout the summer, spring is stormy and unstable, winters can be brutal. Humidity was awful. And the bugs in summer were thick... a rose bush there always looked weak from the heat and humidity.

Still, I was young and I got used to it, enough so summer softball coaching was doable. Of course, drank way too much cold beer. Did learn one thing tho, when you live in Oklahoma you understand why much of mankind hated nature and thought it best to clear, plow, and subordinate - the Calif redwoods it ain't.
 
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