Question for California residents, what keeps you there?

[WillyPete]

First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

Last year, for the first time in the state's history, it lost population. I suspect it is because once people saw they could work remotely, they decided to live and work from somewhere that was much cheaper to live and work from.

For example, let's say you bought this home 15 years ago for $495k, today you can get $900k for it and pocket $500k or more in equity.

744 Union St APT 6, San Francisco, CA 94133 | Zillow

744 Union St Apt 6, San Francisco CA, is a Apartment home.It contains 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The Rent Zestimate for this Apartment is $3,495/mo, which has decreased by $639/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

You could move to Saint Louis and buy this home for $229k, it's bigger, its in a hip neighborhood, and you would probably pocket $300k and have a house that was paid for, so what is keeping you in California? (you can find homes in similar price ranges in many cities all over the country)

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis, MO 63104 | Zillow

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis MO, is a Single Family home that contains 1368 sq ft and was built in 1906.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $313,400, which has decreased by $8,942 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is...

www.zillow.com

Certainly you have a point. We do not get our money's worth in California. I'd love to transplant my job back home where I could live like a demented god (and I might yet) but:

1. Inertia is a thing.
2. The pay really is significantly higher, and my experience has been that gap is getting bigger over time.
3. It's hard to argue with the weather (though I miss proper seasons.)
4. There's many options now, but legal status of marijuana may be a concern. If you enjoy it, it would be a tough choice to move back under prohibition.
5. Probably primarily because I got tangled up with a native and they really aren't interested in living anywhere else.

 

[phoenix2020]

California is a fairly high income state, but everyone there isn't rich. Let's say you are an upper middle class household earning 200k a year and working in the tech industry. Now that you can work remotely, wouldn't you rather live somewhere where you would have a lot of disposable income at 200k a year than in the Bay Area where you are practically paycheck to paycheck due to the cost of living?

Sorry, the tech industry doesn't work that way

If you relocate to a lower cost of living location, your income will eventually be adjusted accordingly. Also, at least some of the tech companies want most people back in the office.

That said I know a LOT of people who spent the last 12 months remote working from their home town and replacing $4,000 monthly rents with $1,000 monthly rents - almost free money.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

Last year, for the first time in the state's history, it lost population. I suspect it is because once people saw they could work remotely, they decided to live and work from somewhere that was much cheaper to live and work from.

For example, let's say you bought this home 15 years ago for $495k, today you can get $900k for it and pocket $500k or more in equity.

744 Union St APT 6, San Francisco, CA 94133 | Zillow

744 Union St Apt 6, San Francisco CA, is a Apartment home.It contains 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The Rent Zestimate for this Apartment is $3,495/mo, which has decreased by $639/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

You could move to Saint Louis and buy this home for $229k, it's bigger, its in a hip neighborhood, and you would probably pocket $300k and have a house that was paid for, so what is keeping you in California? (you can find homes in similar price ranges in many cities all over the country)

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis, MO 63104 | Zillow

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis MO, is a Single Family home that contains 1368 sq ft and was built in 1906.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $313,400, which has decreased by $8,942 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is...

www.zillow.com

I lived in the South for thirteen years, Arkansas and Texas.
I realize I can buy our old house several times over for cash, but then I'd be stuck in Texas again.
Cheap housing prices doesn't change the fact that it's overrun with morons, and is cursed with weather that resembles Saudi Arabia only with more humidity, crappy roads, an educational system that thinks critical thinking is evil and that Texas is the center of the universe.
It really IS "no country for old men"...or women.

Where is it written that I must be eager for MORE Californians?
Don't like it here, leave...no one is stopping you.
Another California bashing thread, what a surprise.

I have zero desire to live anwhere near the Ozarks.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

COME ON!

The real question should be:

Americans, what keeps you there?

Come live in a socialist paradise like Canada, you will love it here.

 

[Grand Mal]

Virginia or North Carolina isn't. I have 4200 sq ft and an acre + in a luxury neighborhood in a Richmond suburb. You can buy it for $450K. I too don't understand the California mentality.

It's amazing. $450K would maybe buy a one bedroom apartment in Vancouver. Even given the exchange rate, a Cdn. dollar being about 80 cents US, it's amazing.
Who knows what drives such a huge disparity. The possibility of really lucrative employment? The shallow perception of prestige? There has been many cases in the Vancouver area of elderly people being basically taxed out of their homes, the property they've lived in becoming so highly valued that they can't pay the taxes on their pensions. They get a lottery-like payday when they sell but that might be poor compensation for having to move.

 

[Grand Mal]

COME ON!

The real question should be:

Americans, what keeps you there?

Come live in a socialist paradise like Canada, you will love it here.

Stop it.
Life's good here partly because there's lots of room between people. British Columbia is about the size of Washington, Oregon and California combined, bigger maybe, and has a population of less than 5 million.
Less of the invitations would be appreciated.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Stop it.
Life's good here partly because there's lots of room between people. British Columbia is about the size of Washington, Oregon and California combined, bigger maybe, and has a population of less than 5 million.
Less of the invitations would be appreciated.

Canadians have kind hearts, I was thinking of the poor souls south of the border.

 

[Grand Mal]

Canadians have kind hearts, I was thinking of the poor souls south of the border.

Okay. But they have to be able to skate three laps around the arena, backwards between the blue lines, in 3 minutes or less.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

So far as getting what you pay for goes, this is where I grew up, Hot Springs, AR:

A small city surrounded by a national park, nearly 2 million acres of national forest in your backyard, very mild winters, surrounded by lakes including Lake Ouachita one of the most pristine in the country, and mountains stretching out a hundred miles behind you, but there wasn't a lot of economic opportunity, so I moved away 20 years ago. These days, with all the remote work options, it's looking really attractive again.

I am familiar with the area. I spent some of my childhood near Mena. Arkansas is gorgeous. And cheap.

But my retirement plan is Maine.

 

[Nickyjo]

St. Louis is too far from salt water.

And have you been there in August?

 

[Grand Mal]

And have you been there in August?

Nope. Pretty humid?

 

[CaughtInThe]

CA is huge.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

CA is huge.

With pretty much every climate you can want. California is incredible.

LA sucks, though. Horrid place.

 

[aociswundumho]

If you have to ask, then you've never lived in California. Which is a very large state, with much more than just SF, LA, or your various low rent ghetto areas. Lots of wealth in California and among the VERY BEST climates IN THE WORLD. Not many places on this planet have this mild Mediterranean climate. But the state also has deserts, mountains, rivers---- a lot more than just beautiful wealthy beach areas.

When I was in my 20s I lived in San Diego for about a year. The amazing weather is what I remember the most about it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I was born and raised in the Vancouver area. When I was working in Ft. MacMurray, Alberta, I was told how ridiculous it was that a house that cost $200,000 in Edmonton would be most of a mil in Vancouver. I'd use that salt-water line but the fact is real estate is a free market and everything is worth exactly what you can get for it. It's worth that much more to live in Vancouver than in Edmonton.

Also in Vancouver they let alien foreigners move in and replace the Anglo population. Victoria and Vancouver used to be fundamentally English cities. Now a majority of the population are not native English speakers. If half the population of Vancouver disappeared the real estate values would be rather low. But when you have a government that emphasizes multiculturalism over its own people that’s what happens.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I am living in California just on the basis of my fiancé living here. We’re going to leave after we get married.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

And have you been there in August?

I live in Kansas City, which is just as hot as St. Louis in the summer. If you think St. Louis is hot in the summer, try Memphis or Southern Arkansas.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Nope. Pretty humid?

Hot and humid usually, though, it has nothing on Memphis, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and East Texas in that regard.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I lived in the South for thirteen years, Arkansas and Texas.
I realize I can buy our old house several times over for cash, but then I'd be stuck in Texas again.
Cheap housing prices doesn't change the fact that it's overrun with morons, and is cursed with weather that resembles Saudi Arabia only with more humidity, crappy roads, an educational system that thinks critical thinking is evil and that Texas is the center of the universe.
It really IS "no country for old men"...or women.

Where is it written that I must be eager for MORE Californians?
Don't like it here, leave...no one is stopping you.
Another California bashing thread, what a surprise.

I have zero desire to live anwhere near the Ozarks.

View attachment 67333091

I am not bashing California. I am just saying if I knew I could sell my house that I still owed money on, take the equity from the sale and buy a new house somewhere else for cash, and still pocket a ton of money, that would be quite a temptation.

 

[Cardinal]

Other: I did that. The geography is irreplaceable though.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

COME ON!

The real question should be:

Americans, what keeps you there?

Come live in a socialist paradise like Canada, you will love it here.

I would like Canada if the Canadian government didn’t turn BRITISH Columbia into Chinese Columbia or India Columbia.

And if they brought back the actual flag and anthem.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Sorry, the tech industry doesn't work that way

If you relocate to a lower cost of living location, your income will eventually be adjusted accordingly. Also, at least some of the tech companies want most people back in the office.

That said I know a LOT of people who spent the last 12 months remote working from their home town and replacing $4,000 monthly rents with $1,000 monthly rents - almost free money.

It works that way a lot. Lets say a 180k a year job in the Bay Area becomes a 140k a year job in Atlanta, you still are coming out way, way, way ahead in terms of disposable income. I personally know people working for tech companies based in California, but working here in KC and getting the same money they would get if they moved there. A lot of Software Engineering and DevOps jobs are fully remote now. A friend of mine works remotely and spent a couple years just moving around the country. Spent a winter working from Puerto Rico, then moved up to the Pacific Northwest, now is building a house Michigan steps from Lake Michigan because they decided they wanted lower housing costs.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am not bashing California. I am just saying if I knew I could sell my house that I still owed money on, take the equity from the sale and buy a new house somewhere else for cash, and still pocket a ton of money, that would be quite a temptation.

Sorry but I just can't appreciate living anywhere else now, after witnessing the insanity of what used to be considered "the heartland".
And it's not just Trump either. We left Texas in 2012.
Yes, you're correct, our home has more than doubled in value. We really could buy a house just like the one we had in Mansfield, cash and still have a fat nest egg left over.
But we'd be back in North Texas again.
The best bargain in the world doesn't mean shit if you hate the South as much as I do.
Tulsa? Sure, it's a lovely place to visit, and in fact it's even becoming rather pleasant, until tornado season hits.
I might consider Tulsa.
Minneapolis, I'd love to live there again but my wife would be a prisoner half the year.

Yeah, glad to be in Los Angeles and I don't intend to leave.

 

[Court Jester]

When I was in my 20s I lived in San Diego for about a year. The amazing weather is what I remember the most about it.

San Diego is great. Especially Coronado, Point Loma, and La Jolla.

 

[Nickyjo]

If you have to ask, then you've never lived in California. Which is a very large state, with much more than just SF, LA, or your various low rent ghetto areas. Lots of wealth in California and among the VERY BEST climates IN THE WORLD. Not many places on this planet have this mild Mediterranean climate. But the state also has deserts, mountains, rivers---- a lot more than just beautiful wealthy beach areas.

Who really wants to live in the south or midwest with that repressive humidity? You could tout all of the freedoms in states like Oklahoma---but have you ever been there? There is a reason they put all the Indians there---or later gave the land away free. Maybe only two nice weather days in some of those places. The way some see it in California is that depending on how close you are to the coastline, you almost never need to turn on the A/C, and in the winter only a few times maybe turning on the heat. How much money does that save? And oh, the views!

True. California has all that because it's huge. But slice off a part, say, where I live in the north to see why I stay here. On your map, draw a line from Mendocino to Lake Tahoe, south to Yosemite, then towards Monterey. In that area you have the aforementioned Yosemite, another national park in Point Reyes, magnificent coastlines, the glory of Lake Tahoe and the Sierra that surrounds it, the fabulous wine country, magnificent redwoods at Muir Woods and in many neighborhoods, one of the most beautiful cities in the world, (I used to be a SF tour guide in a 14 passenger van. For part of the tour I didn't have to say anything, the city spoke for itself.) Then there is the roller coaster and other rides at the boardwalk in Santa Cruz, the maverick waves for surfers, both baseball leagues represented, several Spanish missions, and Carmel/Big Sur. You can fish for huge salmon fresh from the ocean in January next to a freeway in the suburban city Walnut Creek. April saw an array of poppies and blossoms in the hills of the East Bay, with parks stretching from Richmond to San Leandro. There is no desert, and the ocean could be a bit warmer, but it's quite a place, has everything. One never feels pain from great heat or cold. Ask here for tourist tips if you plan to visit a particular place in the area.

The downside is that so many people want to live here that it makes it hard for service workers and others to afford to, so the nearby Central Valley is filling up, and people have ghastly commutes. My city, Berkeley, is putting up dense housing, but that is not always easy to do in nearby cities. And I bought my home almost 30 years ago, when doing so was possible. Even then, it took help from a smart realtor -- and from foolish relatives -- to do so.