Question for California residents, what keeps you there?

[ALiberalModerate]

First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

Last year, for the first time in the state's history, it lost population. I suspect it is because once people saw they could work remotely, they decided to live and work from somewhere that was much cheaper to live and work from.

For example, let's say you bought this home 15 years ago for $495k, today you can get $900k for it and pocket $500k or more in equity.

744 Union St APT 6, San Francisco, CA 94133 | Zillow

744 Union St Apt 6, San Francisco CA, is a Apartment home.It contains 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The Rent Zestimate for this Apartment is $3,495/mo, which has decreased by $639/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

You could move to Saint Louis and buy this home for $229k, it's bigger, its in a hip neighborhood, and you would probably pocket $300k and have a house that was paid for, so what is keeping you in California? (you can find homes in similar price ranges in many cities all over the country)

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis, MO 63104 | Zillow

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis MO, is a Single Family home that contains 1368 sq ft and was built in 1906.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $313,400, which has decreased by $8,942 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is...

www.zillow.com

 

[Grand Mal]

First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

Last year, for the first time in the state's history, it lost population. I suspect it is because once people saw they could work remotely, they decided to live and work from somewhere that was much cheaper to live and work from.

For example, let's say you bought this home 15 years ago for $495k, today you can get $900k for it and pocket $500k or more in equity.

744 Union St APT 6, San Francisco, CA 94133 | Zillow

744 Union St Apt 6, San Francisco CA, is a Apartment home.It contains 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The Rent Zestimate for this Apartment is $3,495/mo, which has decreased by $639/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

You could move to Saint Louis for $229k, it's bigger, its in a hip neighborhood, and you would probably pocket $300k and have a house that was paid for, so what is keeping you in California? (you can find homes in similar price ranges in many cities all over the country)

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis, MO 63104 | Zillow

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis MO, is a Single Family home that contains 1368 sq ft and was built in 1906.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $313,400, which has decreased by $8,942 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is...

www.zillow.com

St. Louis is too far from salt water.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

St. Louis is too far from salt water.

Ok, this big ranch in Wilmington, NC then, https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4517-Dean-Dr-Wilmington-NC-28405/54293280_zpid/

And there you are near beaches where the water is actually nice and warm to swim in.

 

[highroller]

I imagine most people buying in California are rich already. They likely are investing in rental properties or something of the sort.

although I’ve never been there so I’m probably talking out of my ass.

 

[Grand Mal]

Ok, this big ranch in Wilmington, NC then, https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4517-Dean-Dr-Wilmington-NC-28405/54293280_zpid/

And there you are near beaches where the water is actually nice and warm to swim in.

I was born and raised in the Vancouver area. When I was working in Ft. MacMurray, Alberta, I was told how ridiculous it was that a house that cost $200,000 in Edmonton would be most of a mil in Vancouver. I'd use that salt-water line but the fact is real estate is a free market and everything is worth exactly what you can get for it. It's worth that much more to live in Vancouver than in Edmonton.

 

[Subieguy]

First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

Last year, for the first time in the state's history, it lost population. I suspect it is because once people saw they could work remotely, they decided to live and work from somewhere that was much cheaper to live and work from.

For example, let's say you bought this home 15 years ago for $495k, today you can get $900k for it and pocket $500k or more in equity.

744 Union St APT 6, San Francisco, CA 94133 | Zillow

744 Union St Apt 6, San Francisco CA, is a Apartment home.It contains 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The Rent Zestimate for this Apartment is $3,495/mo, which has decreased by $639/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

You could move to Saint Louis and buy this home for $229k, it's bigger, its in a hip neighborhood, and you would probably pocket $300k and have a house that was paid for, so what is keeping you in California? (you can find homes in similar price ranges in many cities all over the country)

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis, MO 63104 | Zillow

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis MO, is a Single Family home that contains 1368 sq ft and was built in 1906.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $313,400, which has decreased by $8,942 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is...

www.zillow.com

wow. St. Louis is really reasonable. My local home prices are higher than that. Low supply and high demand here.

 

[roguenuke]

Ok, this big ranch in Wilmington, NC then, https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4517-Dean-Dr-Wilmington-NC-28405/54293280_zpid/

And there you are near beaches where the water is actually nice and warm to swim in.

And sees a hurricane every 2-3 years.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/09/11/study-breaks-down-nc-coastal-property-at-risk-from.html

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I imagine most people buying in California are rich already. They likely are investing in rental properties or something of the sort.

although I’ve never been there so I’m probably talking out of my ass.

California is a fairly high income state, but everyone there isn't rich. Let's say you are an upper middle class household earning 200k a year and working in the tech industry. Now that you can work remotely, wouldn't you rather live somewhere where you would have a lot of disposable income at 200k a year than in the Bay Area where you are practically paycheck to paycheck due to the cost of living?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

And sees a hurricane every 2-3 years.

Would you rather have that, or insane wildfires that make it impossible to breath outside every few years?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

wow. St. Louis is really reasonable. My local home prices are higher than that. Low supply and high demand here.

St. Louis is very reasonable because the areas population is stagnant. It's cheaper than here in the KC area on the other side of the state, but we are growing much faster. That said, the Ozarks back right up into the metro over in STL. So if a person is real outdoorsy, the forests, rivers and lakes of the Ozarks are at your backdoor over there.

 

[roguenuke]

Would you rather have that, or insane wildfires that make it impossible to breath outside every few years?

I like where I live. I'm just saying that the place you picked was specifically in a hurricane zone. One of the other Chiefs I worked with lived there and right after he moved in, he got 2 hurricanes that left him unable to leave for weeks.

Personally, I like the Pacific NW and the mountains of NC/VA. Wouldn't mind Montana and the husband wants a yacht. I can understand how some would like to live in California though. Others like Hawaii (which I hated).

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I like where I live. I'm just saying that the place you picked was specifically in a hurricane zone. One of the other Chiefs I worked with lived there and right after he moved in, he got 2 hurricanes that left him unable to leave for weeks.

Personally, I like the Pacific NW and the mountains of NC/VA. Wouldn't mind Montana and the husband wants a yacht. I can understand how some would like to live in California though. Others like Hawaii (which I hated).

I totally understand the appeal of California, its just that even at an upper middle class income level, you would just be living paycheck to paycheck.

For example, if you like living near the ocean, there are other parts of the country where you could do so for less money. If you like the mountains, you could live in Santa Fe, NM, or even Denver for lot less money. If you hated winters, you could live in Florida for a lot less money. If you didn't mind winters, but wanted to live somewhere very scenic, then much of New England is cheaper (albeit, not a lot cheaper), and places like Northern MN, which is beautiful, is a lot, lot cheaper.

 

[OscarLevant]

First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

Last year, for the first time in the state's history, it lost population. I suspect it is because once people saw they could work remotely, they decided to live and work from somewhere that was much cheaper to live and work from.

For example, let's say you bought this home 15 years ago for $495k, today you can get $900k for it and pocket $500k or more in equity.

744 Union St APT 6, San Francisco, CA 94133 | Zillow

744 Union St Apt 6, San Francisco CA, is a Apartment home.It contains 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The Rent Zestimate for this Apartment is $3,495/mo, which has decreased by $639/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

You could move to Saint Louis and buy this home for $229k, it's bigger, its in a hip neighborhood, and you would probably pocket $300k and have a house that was paid for, so what is keeping you in California? (you can find homes in similar price ranges in many cities all over the country)

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis, MO 63104 | Zillow

1428 S 18th St, Saint Louis MO, is a Single Family home that contains 1368 sq ft and was built in 1906.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $313,400, which has decreased by $8,942 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is...

www.zillow.com

Jeezus, you pick the most expensive city in CA to use as an example? Try Imperial Beach or Chula Vista in San Diego, it's a lot cheaper.

First off, Zillow is not reliable. now then, sure, you can live in St. Louis. Nothing wrong with St. Louis. But, personally, I'd rather live here ( which is where I do happen to live) noting the weather is to die for, and NO MOSQUITOS. There are lower cost strategies. I purchased a 1200 sq ft manufactured home, when the market was low, eleven years ago, used, for $20k, it's now worth $60k, I live in rent control, my space rent is $750 (includes water and trash) and has only risen $10 per year for the last 10 years. And, ACA is robust here, much to choose from, $500 deductible, $136 per month, $10 copays on the Healthnet silver plan in my income bracket ( I'm on medicare now, but that is what it was when I was 64, when I first got on it , I'm 70 now ). I live cheap, in SAN DIEGO. But, Gas is $3.60 per gal, cost of living is higher, so.......

You get what you pay for.

 

[OscarLevant]

I totally understand the appeal of California, its just that even at an upper middle class income level, you would just be living paycheck to paycheck.

For example, if you like living near the ocean, there are other parts of the country where you could do so for less money. If you like the mountains, you could live in Santa Fe, NM, or even Denver for lot less money. If you hated winters, you could live in Florida for a lot less money. If you didn't mind winters, but wanted to live somewhere very scenic, then much of New England is cheaper (albeit, not a lot cheaper), and places like Northern MN, which is beautiful, is a lot, lot cheaper.

Florida is humid as hell, and you got hurricanes. Forget that, unless you are talkin' about Mt Dora, or inland place free from hurricanes but near lakes.

There are beautiful places where it gets cold during the winter, so if that isn't a problem, go for it.

 

[Court Jester]

First off, I know that California is beautiful with mountains, ocean, deserts, forests, a great climate, and a lot of culture. So in many ways, it is a very attractive place to live. However, given the cost of living there, specifically housing costs, I am not sure what keeps middle and upper middle class households there.

If you have to ask, then you've never lived in California. Which is a very large state, with much more than just SF, LA, or your various low rent ghetto areas. Lots of wealth in California and among the VERY BEST climates IN THE WORLD. Not many places on this planet have this mild Mediterranean climate. But the state also has deserts, mountains, rivers---- a lot more than just beautiful wealthy beach areas.

Who really wants to live in the south or midwest with that repressive humidity? You could tout all of the freedoms in states like Oklahoma---but have you ever been there? There is a reason they put all the Indians there---or later gave the land away free. Maybe only two nice weather days in some of those places. The way some see it in California is that depending on how close you are to the coastline, you almost never need to turn on the A/C, and in the winter only a few times maybe turning on the heat. How much money does that save? And oh, the views!

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Jeezus, you pick the most expensive city in CA to use as an example? Try Imperial Beach or Chula Vista in San Diego, it's a lot cheaper.

First off, Zillow is not reliable. now then, sure, you can live in St. Louis. Nothing wrong with St. Louis. But, personally, I'd rather live here ( which is where I do happen to live) noting the weather is to die for, and NO MOSQUITOS. There are lower cost strategies. I purchased a 1200 sq ft manufactured home, when the market was low, eleven years ago, used, for $20k, it's now worth $60k, I live in rent control, my space rent is $750 (includes water and trash) and has only risen $10 per year for the last 10 years. And, ACA is robust here, much to choose from, $500 deductible, $136 per month, $10 copays on the Healthnet silver plan in my income bracket ( I'm on medicare now, but that is what it was when I was 64, when I first got on it , I'm 70 now ). I live cheap, in SAN DIEGO. But, Gas is $3.60 per gal, cost of living is higher, so.......

You get what you pay for.

So far as getting what you pay for goes, this is where I grew up, Hot Springs, AR:

A small city surrounded by a national park, nearly 2 million acres of national forest in your backyard, very mild winters, surrounded by lakes including Lake Ouachita one of the most pristine in the country, and mountains stretching out a hundred miles behind you, but there wasn't a lot of economic opportunity, so I moved away 20 years ago. These days, with all the remote work options, it's looking really attractive again.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I was born and raised in the Vancouver area. When I was working in Ft. MacMurray, Alberta, I was told how ridiculous it was that a house that cost $200,000 in Edmonton would be most of a mil in Vancouver. I'd use that salt-water line but the fact is real estate is a free market and everything is worth exactly what you can get for it. It's worth that much more to live in Vancouver than in Edmonton.

I certainly have not been everywhere in Canada, but of the places I have been, I think Montreal is one of the loveliest cites on earth. The setting is pretty, the neighborhoods with those row homes are beautiful, and the food and culture is great. That said, the winters I know are a real mother****er, so I would assume if someone lived there, they are really living for May through October and just enduring the rest (I know Canadians think the summers are hot and humid there, but the only people on earth that would consider Montreal to have hot and humid summers are Canadians)

 

[ALiberalModerate]

If you have to ask, then you've never lived in California. Which is a very large state, with much more than just SF, LA, or your various low rent ghetto areas. Lots of wealth in California and among the VERY BEST climates IN THE WORLD. Not many places on this planet have this mild Mediterranean climate. But the state also has deserts, mountains, rivers---- a lot more than just beautiful wealthy beach areas.

Who really wants to live in the south or midwest with that repressive humidity? You could tout all of the freedoms in states like Oklahoma---but have you ever been there? There is a reason they put all the Indians there---or later gave the land away free. Maybe only two nice weather days in some of those places. The way some see it in California is that depending on how close you are to the coastline, you almost never need to turn on the A/C, and in the winter only a few times maybe turning on the heat. How much money does that save? And oh, the views!

I agree that much of Oklahoma is a shithole, but it is not that representative of most of the South or Midwest.

If a person could stand the winters, the North Shore of Superior in MN and Michigan is one of the prettiest places on earth.

As to humidity, my wife is originally from Houston, TX. Basically, you have about 5 months of nice weather there in the winters, and 7 months of heat and ungodly oppressive humidity there. There is a poster on here that always touts the low cost of living in Texas, well there is a reason for that.

 

[Vadinho]

California is my home and I love it here. There are very few places on earth like it and none in the USA. It is expensive and yes we could cash out and move to another state but I would rather be broke in paradise than rich in a dump.

 

[phoenix2020]

I echo the sentiments of my fellow residents. I love being here. Some of the things I really treasure about California, as a born-and-raised midwesterner who moved out here:

• Every climate I want just a drive away. From where I am right now, one hour to the west takes me to an ocean beach for surfing. One hour to the north has me in lush dense forests and hills. Three hours NE and I'm skiing. Three hours SW and I'm in the desert looking at crazy cacti. It's hard to duplicate that.
• I love the overall attitude and atmosphere. People love to innovate here. There's a reason LA has been the hub of entertainment/culture and SF the hub of technology innovation for so long. "Rest on laurels" and "prioritize keeping our traditions" don't seem so common here.
• I love the fact that most of the state prizes the environment and wants to keep it clean. Even California Republicans are often staunch environmentalists fighting to combat climate change, something just about unheard of in all the other states.
• It's diverse. There are many major cities and they all have their unique attitude or spirit. It's hard to put in words.
• PCH is one of the best drives on the planet, bar none.

I don't think I'd retire here.... but living here? Raising a family here? Unbeatable.

When it comes to summer vacations, I am not traveling to the midwest as much these days since all my family back home clamors to travel and vacation out here!

 

[Grand Mal]

I certainly have not been everywhere in Canada, but of the places I have been, I think Montreal is one of the loveliest cites on earth. The setting is pretty, the neighborhoods with those row homes are beautiful, and the food and culture is great. That said, the winters I know are a real mother****er, so I would assume if someone lived there, they are really living for May through October and just enduring the rest (I know Canadians think the summers are hot and humid there, but the only people on earth that would consider Montreal to have hot and humid summers are Canadians)

Winter is so important to Quebecois that they sing about it.



"Mon pays, ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver!"
"My country isn't a country, It's the winter!"

There's people here w/ho love winter so much that when it gets to be summer here they go to New Zealand so they can find some kind of job that can keep them in the mountains.

 

[mrjurrs]

I'm fortunate. Lived in the same house for decades. I'm on the grid, no solar panels and I choose to get my energy at a 70% green level and last winter my energy bill was around $75 a month. In summer it's much higher. Paid around $135 a month and I only cool my house to 78 degrees.

Living somewhere is just like anything else. You get what you pay for.

 

[mrjurrs]

I totally understand the appeal of California, its just that even at an upper middle class income level, you would just be living paycheck to paycheck.

For example, if you like living near the ocean, there are other parts of the country where you could do so for less money. If you like the mountains, you could live in Santa Fe, NM, or even Denver for lot less money. If you hated winters, you could live in Florida for a lot less money. If you didn't mind winters, but wanted to live somewhere very scenic, then much of New England is cheaper (albeit, not a lot cheaper), and places like Northern MN, which is beautiful, is a lot, lot cheaper.

You could do that with only one home if you lived in CA. All those constant moving charges would add up.

 

[Court Jester]

I agree that much of Oklahoma is a shithole, but it is not that representative of most of the South or Midwest.

If a person could stand the winters, the North Shore of Superior in MN and Michigan is one of the prettiest places on earth.

View attachment 67333071View attachment 67333073

As to humidity, my wife is originally from Houston, TX. Basically, you have about 5 months of nice weather there in the winters, and 7 months of heat and ungodly oppressive humidity there. There is a poster on here that always touts the low cost of living in Texas, well there is a reason for that.

I like Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin....but.. well, the winters. Also love Maine and Vermont...and again the winters are a no deal for me.

Other states like Arizona (Prescott/Prescott Valley), Utah, and Idaho have great appeal to me. But again, hard to leave behind a Mediterranean climate.

I suppose right now if I had a first choice to move to it would be Carson Valley just south of Carson City in Minden are Gardnerville. Mild winters, high desert but not opressive heat, and very dry. Minutes from Lake Tahoe, and if you had to... you could go to Reno for hospitals/doctors.

I love Texas people, but I can't handle the weather in any part of that state. Piney woods too humid, Rio Grande Valley.... need I say more? West Texas...well okay, but again no thanks. Besides, more people from Kommiefornia headed there by the minute so we'll see how Texas becomes?

Yep, Carson Valley is nice. NOTHING like Clark County / Las Vegas.

Carson Valley

 

[jimbo]

St. Louis is too far from salt water.

Virginia or North Carolina isn't. I have 4200 sq ft and an acre + in a luxury neighborhood in a Richmond suburb. You can buy it for $450K. I too don't understand the California mentality.