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Question for 2A supporters...

How do you guys feel about Sandy Hook deniers?

And if you are one, why are you a Sandy Hooker denier?

is that still a thing? LMAO

i rank them up thier with flat earthers and birthers etc. . . whack jobs :shrug:
 
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Your opinion is worthless when stating a matter of fact.

I did not state an opinion when I say it is self-enforceable. :no:

I back that up with my own commitment to self-enforcement. I do not own a gun, have never felt the need to have access to one (outside those periods of military and later law enforcement service as required by the job). Yet if I ever feel the need to acquire one, I have the means and methods of doing so.

At that point, I am as willing to use it against all comers as I was when serving my country, or my community in those two jobs. That is not an opinion, it is a simple fact.

You asked for proof, I gave you two quotes from foundational documents establishing our nation.

The rest of your response is just a bunch of straw man and red herring deflections to points made. Tagline time. :coffeepap:
 
When people that want to limit 2nd amendment rights (i.e. - banning what they incorrectly call assault rifles) on law abiding citizens that haven't done the type things used in supporting such bans, it's unacceptable. Those that support such bans are the very ones crying "you shouldn't judge the group as a whole by what a small number do" as they do that very thing.

Law abiding citizens bought assault rifles and murdered people by the masses.

Remember, when it comes to guns, you have to decide whether you support someone who can pass a background check owning the weapons currently allowed.
 
Law abiding citizens bought assault rifles and murdered people by the masses.

Remember, when it comes to guns, you have to decide whether you support someone who can pass a background check owning the weapons currently allowed.

you're lying or you are ignorant-there is NOT a single case of a private citizen in the USA murdering ANYONE with a lawfully owned ASSAULT RIFLE
 
Law abiding citizens bought assault rifles and murdered people by the masses.

Cite? Compare the number of people killed with AR-15s (which are not assault rifles) in mass shootings to say, the number of people killed by knives, or murdered by water, since the introduction of sales of the AR-15 in 1964.

Remember, when it comes to guns, you have to decide whether you support someone who can pass a background check owning the weapons currently allowed.

Why wouldn't I? Do you not support the Constitution?
 
How do you guys feel about Sandy Hook deniers?

And if you are one, why are you a Sandy Hooker denier?

Oxygen thieves.

I think about as much of them as I do Alex Jones and those who support his platforms. There's something very wrong with them.
 
Oxygen thieves.

I think about as much of them as I do Alex Jones and those who support his platforms. There's something very wrong with them.


I don't recall seeing any of the pro-rights advocates buying into such a stupid CT on this board. Have you?
 
How do you square this with an argument to ban drinkable alcohol?

No one needs to drink alcohol. Alcohol kills thousands more people than guns do. The enjoyment people get from drinking alcohol is a small price to pay to save American lives, yes?


Have you never heard of prohibition ?

That didn't work out too well now did it ?
 
I did not state an opinion when I say it is self-enforceable.

Yes you did


Are are you saying that it's just in your opinion that such a law would be unenforceable ?



...I am as willing to use it against all comers as I was when serving my country, or my community in those two jobs. That is not an opinion, it is a simple fact....


British police are mostly unarmed you know

And why do you need a gun for self defense ?


...you asked for proof, I gave you two quotes from foundational documents establishing our nation...


What is it proof of ?
 
Have you never heard of prohibition ?

That didn't work out too well now did it ?

And you think repealing the 2nd amendment would? What makes you think it would go any better?
 
And you think repealing the 2nd amendment would? What makes you think it would go any better?


Because guns aren't addictive drugs

Because I don't believe that speak-easys would spring up where people could go shoot guns in secret....or moonshine guns would be made in the Kentucky woods.


And because it worked in Australia and the UK.
 
Yes you did

No, I did not. I stated a fact.

Are are you saying that it's just in your opinion that such a law would be unenforceable?

No. I am saying that while government may act to enforce any law, individuals and groups can and do act in opposition. It is you who don't understand what I mean by self-enforceable.

As an example, and not to deflect, many people misunderstand when the Declaration of Independence describes a right to rebel. That right does not guarantee success, it only reflects the inherent capability to act, win or lose.

So while your gun control agenda can be pushed and enforced by government power, I can still act to oppose it by any means necessary unto death.

I can cache weapons and ammunition while pretending to obey the law. I can act to sabotage or undermine the system while pretending to be a "law-abiding citizen."

I and other's can organize sedition, leading to rebellion, and win or lose, still act to oppose those who attempt to impose their limits on our individual liberties.

None of this can be prevented short of death or (if I am very unlucky and survive) life imprisonment. In the first case, I died with my rights intact; in the latter case all you have proven is that government force can be used to deprive individuals of their freedom based on malleable ideology and political expediency. Historically, that same power usually ends up turned against the true believer's (like yourself) who created it.

British police are mostly unarmed you know

Red herring, but I would like to point out that with the restriction of guns, people have still found and have actively been using other methods. Knives and motor vehicles seem to be popping up more and more frequently.

And why do you need a gun for self defense?

I personally don't own any guns. (I guess you missed my posts on that).

...I do not own a gun, have never felt the need to have access to one (outside those periods of military and later law enforcement service as required by the job). Yet if I ever feel the need to acquire one, I have the means and methods of doing so.

That's because for most of my life I have been physically fit and relatively well-trained, and have been able to deal with civilian threats without the need so far. Moreover, I have not yet reached a point where I feel my government poses a threat to me. (The actions of the Left the last couple of years are causing me some concern though.)

However, I am getting older and my capabilities are going to wane eventually, yet threats to life, limb, property, and essential freedoms still exist. I may choose to arm myself for such eventualities and if so I certainly don't want anyone, especially the government, to say me nay.

What is it proof of ?

Where the right to self-defense (as with all others) derives from. Also stating the right to rebel/revolt. If you are religious, then inalienable per "Our Creator," if not, then from simple existence which in nature means fighting to exist.

That governments are created to preserve rights, not give them. Yes, there are "civil" rights like voting, entitlement programs, etc.. However, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (among others) pre-exist all forms of government and will exist if all such governments disappear.
 
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No one who rationally supports the Second Amendment as protecting an individual's right to keep and bear arms will deny that there are going to be people who will abuse this right. There will be criminals, people who suffer from various mental illnesses, terrorists, what have you.

One can denounce any illegal and otherwise improper use of guns without undermining support for the essential right. People are accountable for their own actions, both good and bad.

You punish those who act badly; not those who don't by inhibiting their rights simply because of fear that they might also act badly. NOTE: This applies to ALL inherent rights.

Soo, to your question? Sandy Hook occurred, bad person involved is dead. Denier's silly. End of story.

Wow, thanks for saving me the bandwidth as I just begin to read this thread. Succinct and right to the point. :)
 
Says who ?


Some states have a statute of "duty to retreat"
ie: if you can run away, you must do so rather than fight.


The "stand your ground" law in Florida is a good point - it has been used to allow some people to chase down a criminal and kill them. And be acqitted


Show me where is says you have an INHERENT right to self defense.





Says who ?

Says it where ?


You're just peddling gun lobby nonsense.





No, in my states you have a duty to run away and not fight at all.


I'm guessing this comes as news to you.

No, he really isn't pedaling gun lobby nonsense
The bill of rights is there to protect the basic principles of inherent human liberty.
No one gives us these rights. We are born with them, and the second amendment is in place to protect our God given natural rights, the right to self-defend; the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
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No, he really isn't pedaling gun lobby nonsense
The bill of rights is there to protect the basic principles of inherent human liberty.
No one gives us these rights. We are born with them, and the second amendment is in place to protect our God given natural rights, the right to self-defend; the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

and what most people ignore-the federal government was never given any proper power to restrict our firearms rights
 
Because guns aren't addictive drugs

Because I don't believe that speak-easys would spring up where people could go shoot guns in secret....or moonshine guns would be made in the Kentucky woods.


And because it worked in Australia and the UK.

A lot of ifs there. So hypothetically if it were possible to ban all drinkable alcohol, would you be 100% in favor of that?
 
How do you guys feel about Sandy Hook deniers?

And if you are one, why are you a Sandy Hooker denier?
No sane, rational person denies Sandy Hook occurred. Period.
 
The right to have a gun is man made - there's NOTHING inherent about it.
Founding fathers disagree with you, I agree with them.

Rich2018 said:
Yes, every supporter of gun control will acknowledge that the millions of law abiding gun owners will be forced to part with their prized possessions through no fault of their own
No more a "prized possession" than my lawn mower, my toilet brush, or the laptop I'm writing this on.
Rich2018 said:
People don't need guns.
True, the DON'T NEED them, but they have an inalienable right to own one if they wish.
Rich2018 said:
Taking them away is unfortunate but the goal is to prevent mass shootings and the thousands and thousands of gun homicides a year.
The government attempting to take them away will results in far more mass shootings and homicides than you can even comprehend. And the remaining unarmed population will die in far greater numbers at the hands of the criminals that didn't turn in THEIR guns - and I don't ****ing care which of your idiotic "rules" that happens to be.

Rich2018 said:
Next to that, the enjoyment of guns owners shooting their guns is a small price to pay.
Mindless jabberwocky.
 
Founding fathers disagree with you, I agree with them....

No they didn't.

Firstly, the right to bear arms was added as an afterthought...that's why it's in the list of AMENDMENTS

Secondly the right to bear arms is granted by the US Constitution - which was written by......men
QED: It is a man given right.



...no more a "prized possession" than my lawn mower, my toilet brush, or the laptop I'm writing this on....



Except you don't sleep with your lawnmower...you don't give your tooth brush a name.


...true, they DON'T NEED them...

QED: Americans don't NEED guns

Therefore taking them away to save thousands of lives a year is no great hardship.

It's not like anyone would be taking away your cell phones or cars.


...the government attempting to take them away will result in far more mass shootings and homicides than you can even comprehend....


How so ?


Oh wait, you're from the "From my cold dead fingers"..."give them up bullets first"...."1776 will seem as nothing"....school of over my dead body before I give up Sarah and Samantha.
 
No they didn't.

Firstly, the right to bear arms was added as an afterthought...that's why it's in the list of AMENDMENTS
Probably the craziest thing I've ever heard.
Rich2018 said:
Secondly the right to bear arms is granted by the US Constitution - which was written by......men
QED: It is a man given right.
Again, you're talking crazy. 2A doesn't GRANT the right, like the other amendments it assumes the right already exists and prohibits Congress of abridging it.





Rich2018 said:
Except you don't sleep with your lawnmower...you don't give your tooth brush a name.
Nor do I sleep with my guns or give them names(whatever the hell difference THAT makes).



Rich2018 said:
QED: Americans don't NEED guns
"Need" isn't the issue. Have a right to own guns IF they choose is.

Rich2018 said:
Therefore taking them away to save thousands of lives a year is no great hardship.
Taking a constitutional right away because of some looney idea IS a great hardship

Rich2018 said:
It's not like anyone would be taking away your cell phones or cars.
No you're being stupid.




Rich2018 said:
How so ?


Oh wait, you're from the "From my cold dead fingers"..."give them up bullets first"...."1776 will seem as nothing"....school of over my dead body before I give up Sarah and Samantha.
No, I'm not. But the fact you know those phrases shows some are. Second whatever stupid rule you have spew to cover the fact, it is one that criminals are NOT going to give up their guns and the hundreds of thousands of defensive gun uses will disappear and the thousand of illegal uses will multiply.
 
No they didn't.

Firstly, the right to bear arms was added as an afterthought...that's why it's in the list of AMENDMENTS

You should look up the history of the Bill of Rights. The Anti-federalists feared an abusive federal government and insisted upon the inclusion of a Bill of Rights without which the Constitution would not have been ratified at all. The BoR is as much a part of the Constitution as the main document is.

Secondly the right to bear arms is granted by the US Constitution - which was written by......men
QED: It is a man given right.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you: "The right there specified is that of "bearing arms for a lawful purpose." This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence" - US v Cruikshank, 1876.
 
Exactly. So why do you think a gun ban will work any better?

one of the great disconnects in American politics is that so many liberals correctly note how silly the war on drugs is, while demanding a war on gun ownership
 
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