Could any of you who are intimately familiar with the bible please tell me if Jesus ever specifically talked about Hell, what Hell is, and who would go there?
Thank you in advance.
“The beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom”? (Luke 16:19-31, King James Version) Since, as we have seen, Hades refers to mankind’s grave, and not to a place of torment, it is plain that Jesus was here telling an illustration or a story. As further evidence that this is not a literal account but is an illustration, consider this: Is hell literally within speaking distance of heaven so that such a real conversation could be carried on? Moreover, if the rich man were in a literal burning lake, how could Abraham send Lazarus to cool his tongue with just a drop of water on the tip of his finger? What, then, was Jesus illustrating?
The rich man in the illustration stood for the self-important religious leaders who rejected Jesus and later killed him. Lazarus pictured the common people who accepted God’s Son. The death of the rich man and of Lazarus represented a change in their condition. This change took place when Jesus fed the neglected Lazarus-like people spiritually, so that they thus came into the favor of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.
The bible really only speaks of it as sheol, or hades meaning the grave, the place we all are going. Hell is an old catholic scare tactic to keep the $money$ in the coffers through fear.
Well the story is a little more complicated than that. You are right that the concepts of sheol and hades are Old Testament concepts. They have very little to do with the Christian ideas of heaven and hell where the good are rewarded and the evil punished. That story is a bit more interesting than just having been invented by the Catholics.
These ideas trace back to Persian Zoroastrian concepts, and started to seep in to Jewish thought after the intermixing of these cultures after the Persians freed the Jews from the Babylonian Captivity.
Zoroastrianism is a "dualistic" religion, meaning there are two gods: a good of good (Ahura Mazda- the same Mazda after which the Japanese car company is named!), and the good of evil (Ahriman). These gods are at constant war, with humans as the chess pieces in this cosmic contest. The prophecies were that at the end days, there would be one final epic conflict between these two gods, and the god of good would prevail. Those who fought on his side would be rewarded by an eternity in heaven (the word "paradise" is actually an old Persian word "pardees", from the Zoroastrian holy book, the Avestas), and those who fought for the god of evil would be banished to an eternity of hell.
After the Persian emperor Cyrus freed the Israelites from the Babylonian captivity, there was a huge amount of cultural interchange and intermixing. Cyrus himself married a Jewish princess (Esther- her story is told in the Book of Esther in the OT). He also was very impressed with the knowledge and wisdom of the Jewish prophet Daniel, and gave him a very high post in his court as an advisor. It seems it was here that these Zoroastrian ideas began to seep into Jewish thought. Because up until then, the OT was not at all about any epic battles between the forces of good and evil. As you say, ideas of the after life are not well developed in the OT before the Babylonian captivity. It was just a tale about the tribe of Israel, about the survival of the Israelites in a hostile world, and how their loyalty and covenant to their particular god, Yahweh, was going to allow them to survive and destroy their enemies because their god Yahweh was supposedly more powerful than all the other rival gods, like Marduk of the Babylonians. But after the interchange with the Persians, it started to broaden to such abstract themes of good and evil. It became more than just about the tribe of Israel.
After a few centuries of these ideas percolating in Jewish culture, the end result was that eschatological stories of the Apocalypse and the end days had become so popular that they were like an entire genre of literature in Israel, like murder mysteries, or romance, or sci fi. In fact, in the Council of Nicea, there were so many to choose from that they wanted to include several of these stories. Others at the council thought these stories were really weird and none should be included. So finally they compromised, and chose the Revelation to John to canonize, and the other stories were destroyed.
Incidentally, the "three wise men" who came to visit Jesus were the three "magi". "Magi" is the term for a Zoroastrian priest, like "rabbi" for a Jewish priest. They were supposedly following the prophecies of the Avestas to find Jesus.
Webster’s Dictionary says that the English word “hell” is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades. In German Bibles Hoelle is the word used instead of “hell”; in Portuguese the word used is inferno, in Spanish infierno, and in French Enfer. The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, translated Sheol 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.” The Catholic Douay Version translated Sheol 64 times as “hell.” In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the “New Testament”), the King James Version translated Hades as “hell” each of the 10 times it occurs.—Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.
The Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades mean the same thing. This is shown by looking at Psalm 16:10 in the Hebrew Scriptures and Acts 2:31 in the Christian Greek Scriptures, which verses you can see on the next page. Notice that in quoting from Psalm 16:10 where Sheol occurs, Acts 2:31 uses Hades. Notice, too, that Jesus Christ was in Hades, or hell. Are we to believe that God tormented Christ in a hell of fire? Of course not! Jesus was simply in his grave.
Well the story is a little more complicated than that. You are right that the concepts of sheol and hades are Old Testament concepts. They have very little to do with the Christian ideas of heaven and hell where the good are rewarded and the evil punished. That story is a bit more interesting than just having been invented by the Catholics.
These ideas trace back to Persian Zoroastrian concepts, and started to seep in to Jewish thought after the intermixing of these cultures after the Persians freed the Jews from the Babylonian Captivity.
Zoroastrianism is a "dualistic" religion, meaning there are two gods: a good of good (Ahura Mazda- the same Mazda after which the Japanese car company is named!), and the good of evil (Ahriman). These gods are at constant war, with humans as the chess pieces in this cosmic contest. The prophecies were that at the end days, there would be one final epic conflict between these two gods, and the god of good would prevail. Those who fought on his side would be rewarded by an eternity in heaven (the word "paradise" is actually an old Persian word "pardees", from the Zoroastrian holy book, the Avestas), and those who fought for the god of evil would be banished to an eternity of hell.
After the Persian emperor Cyrus freed the Israelites from the Babylonian captivity, there was a huge amount of cultural interchange and intermixing. Cyrus himself married a Jewish princess (Esther- her story is told in the Book of Esther in the OT). He also was very impressed with the knowledge and wisdom of the Jewish prophet Daniel, and gave him a very high post in his court as an advisor. It seems it was here that these Zoroastrian ideas began to seep into Jewish thought. Because up until then, the OT was not at all about any epic battles between the forces of good and evil. As you say, ideas of the after life are not well developed in the OT before the Babylonian captivity. It was just a tale about the tribe of Israel, about the survival of the Israelites in a hostile world, and how their loyalty and covenant to their particular god, Yahweh, was going to allow them to survive and destroy their enemies because their god Yahweh was supposedly more powerful than all the other rival gods, like Marduk of the Babylonians. But after the interchange with the Persians, it started to broaden to such abstract themes of good and evil. It became more than just about the tribe of Israel.
After a few centuries of these ideas percolating in Jewish culture, the end result was that eschatological stories of the Apocalypse and the end days had become so popular that they were like an entire genre of literature in Israel, like murder mysteries, or romance, or sci fi. In fact, in the Council of Nicea, there were so many to choose from that they wanted to include several of these stories. Others at the council thought these stories were really weird and none should be included. So finally they compromised, and chose the Revelation to John to canonize, and the other stories were destroyed.
Incidentally, the "three wise men" who came to visit Jesus were the three "magi". "Magi" is the term for a Zoroastrian priest, like "rabbi" for a Jewish priest. They were supposedly following the prophecies of the Avestas to find Jesus.
Could any of you who are intimately familiar with the bible please tell me if Jesus ever specifically talked about Hell, what Hell is, and who would go there?
Gehenna
The Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom, southwest of ancient Jerusalem. (Jer 7:31) It was prophetically spoken of as a place where dead bodies would be strewn. (Jer 7:32; 19:6) There is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Rather, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction, annihilation.—Re 20:14; Mt 5:22; 10:28.
Gehenna is a more correct term. Gehenna is the word for a burning hell. Burning hell is an extended Pharisaic concept, which Jesus adapted. As a basic Pharisaic concept, human souls stay in Hades (or sheol in Jewish terms, and hell in English terms). The souls after death stay there till the final judgment. Then the wicked souls will be thrown to another place called Lake of Fire in Pharisaic terms. Gehenna thus means the state of Lake of Fire after the wicked souls thrown into it.
Jesus adapted the same set of Pharisaic concepts, as most of the Jews did (especially the Hebrew speaking Jews, some Hellenistic Jews may not have the same concept due to Greek culture influence and they don't grow up the same way and educated the same way as the Hebrew speaking Jews did).
The following are the verses Jesus made use the Gehenna concept,
Matt 5:22
Matt 5:29
Matt 5:30
Matt 10:28
Matt 18:9
Matt 23:15
Matt 23:33
Mark 9:43
Mark 9:45
Mark 9:47
Luke 12:5
Gehenna was an actual place right outside of Jerusalem that Jesus referred to because the people would understand what he was talking about...a place that burns day and night, a garbage dump, where anything thrown into it is completely burned up/destroyed...
Search — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Gehenna was an actual place right outside of Jerusalem that Jesus referred to because the people would understand what he was talking about...a place that burns day and night, a garbage dump, where anything thrown into it is completely burned up/destroyed...
Search — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
One of today's explanations cannot be more accurate than what Josephus (a 1st century historian and Pharisee) said about from a Pharisaic point of view! A valid argument lies on how Jesus' speeches being in consistence with the concept Josephus wrote down in his historical works.
Josephus was a traitor, and his writings were rife with forgeries.
OM
"He's not a scientist, thus whatever he said about science cannot be true".
"He's a traitor thus whatever he said can't be true".
I am surprised by how people in these forums can do!
GEHENNA
(Ge·henʹna) [Gr. form of the Heb. Geh Hin·nomʹ, “Valley of Hinnom”].
This name appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and whereas many translators take the liberty to render it by the word “hell,” a number of modern translations transliterate the word from the Greek geʹen·na.—Mt 5:22, Ro, Mo, ED, NW, BC (Spanish), NC (Spanish), also the footnotes of Da and RS.
The deep, narrow Valley of Hinnom, later known by this Greek name, lay to the S and SW of ancient Jerusalem and is the modern-day Wadi er-Rababi (Ge Ben Hinnom). (Jos 15:8; 18:16; Jer 19:2, 6; see HINNOM, VALLEY OF.) Judean Kings Ahaz and Manasseh engaged in idolatrous worship there, which included the making of human sacrifices by fire to Baal. (2Ch 28:1, 3; 33:1, 6; Jer 7:31, 32; 32:35) Later, to prevent such activities there in the future, faithful King Josiah had the place of idolatrous worship polluted, particularly the section called Topheth.—2Ki 23:10.
No Symbol of Everlasting Torment. Jesus Christ associated fire with Gehenna (Mt 5:22; 18:9; Mr 9:47, 48), as did the disciple James, the only Biblical writer besides Matthew, Mark, and Luke to use the word. (Jas 3:6) Some commentators endeavor to link such fiery characteristic of Gehenna with the burning of human sacrifices that was carried on prior to Josiah’s reign and, on this basis, hold that Gehenna was used by Jesus as a symbol of everlasting torment. However, since Jehovah God expressed repugnance for such practice, saying that it was “a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart” (Jer 7:31; 32:35), it seems most unlikely that God’s Son, in discussing divine judgment, would make such idolatrous practice the basis for the symbolic meaning of Gehenna. It may be noted that God prophetically decreed that the Valley of Hinnom would serve as a place for mass disposal of dead bodies rather than for the torture of live victims. (Jer 7:32, 33; 19:2, 6, 7, 10, 11) Thus, at Jeremiah 31:40 the reference to “the low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes” is generally accepted as designating the Valley of Hinnom, and a gate known as “the Gate of the Ash-heaps” evidently opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley at its juncture with the ravine of the Kidron.—Ne 3:13, 14.
Therefore, the Biblical evidence concerning Gehenna generally parallels the traditional view presented by rabbinic and other sources. That view is that the Valley of Hinnom was used as a place for the disposal of waste matter from the city of Jerusalem. (At Mt 5:30 Ph renders geʹen·na as “rubbish heap.”) Concerning “Gehinnom,” the Jewish commentator David Kimhi (1160?-1235?), in his comment on Psalm 27:13, gives the following historical information: “And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”
Symbolic of Complete Destruction. It is evident that Jesus used Gehenna as representative of utter destruction resulting from adverse judgment by God, hence with no resurrection to life as a soul being possible. (Mt 10:28; Lu 12:4, 5) The scribes and Pharisees as a wicked class were denounced as ‘subjects for Gehenna.’ (Mt 23:13-15, 33) To avoid such destruction, Jesus’ followers were to get rid of anything causing spiritual stumbling, the ‘cutting off of a hand or foot’ and the ‘tearing out of an eye’ figuratively representing their deadening of these body members with reference to sin.—Mt 18:9; Mr 9:43-47; Col 3:5; compare Mt 5:27-30.
Jesus also apparently alluded to Isaiah 66:24 in describing Gehenna as a place “where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out.” (Mr 9:47, 48) That the symbolic picture here is not one of torture but, rather, of complete destruction is evident from the fact that the Isaiah text dealt, not with persons who were alive, but with “the carcasses of the men that were transgressing” against God. If, as the available evidence indicates, the Valley of Hinnom was a place for the disposal of garbage and carcasses, fire, perhaps increased in intensity by the addition of sulfur (compare Isa 30:33), would be the only suitable means to eliminate such refuse. Where the fire did not reach, worms, or maggots, would breed, consuming anything not destroyed by the fire. On this basis, Jesus’ words would mean that the destructive effect of God’s adverse judgment would not cease until complete destruction was attained.
The Biblical use of Gehenna as a symbol corresponds to that of “the lake of fire” in the book of Revelation.—Re 20:14, 15
Jesus said he himself would go to hell for 3 days but God would not leave him there...Acts 2:27,31...
Since Jesus is god and god rules in hell, it's no problem just a watch he has to do.
Jesus said he himself would go to hell for 3 days but God would not leave him there...Acts 2:27,31...
Thanks for all the responses. I'm re-reading the Qur'an, and I'm struck by the number of times Mohamed-pretending-to-be-God threatened the Meccans with an eternity in Hell (which is called Gehanna). It got me wondering about what Jesus had to say.
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