Putin: 'Unfriendly' states to pay for Russian gas in rubles

[oneworld2]

The United States has more fossil fuel reserves than China does, and Canada has more than double the fossil fuel reserves that Russia has.

Not relevant to the point I made about how China can and probably will start taking on more energy supplies from Russia thus making the effects of the sanctions placed on Russia less damaging

 

[oneworld2]

EU has the Arab World, EU leaders are already going to the Arab world to beg. The Germans went to Doha and Abu Dhabi, at a time when the need to get away from oil and gas is greater than ever, they just decide to swap the Tyrant in Moscow for the Tyrants on the Peninsula. And we remain stuck with oil, gas, pollution and climate change forever.

Europe relies on others for its energy and there is where it is completely vulnerable. Unlike Russia.

I think the rubles for energy twist is something of a Russian coup against Europeans.

The earth is dying and we are killing it, that goes without saying but it is a seperate issue to rubles for energy

 

[Fledermaus]

Not relevant to the point I made about how China can and probably will start taking on more energy supplies from Russia thus making the effects of the sanctions placed on Russia less damaging

It is relevant to other points.

Do you get good gas mileage in that DODGE of yours?

 

[oneworld2]

It is relevant to other points.

Do you get good gas mileage in that DODGE of yours?

So what? it wasn't relevant to the post of mine it was the reply to. I am under no obligation to talk about how much oil/gas the US or canada has.

 

[Fledermaus]

So what? it wasn't relevant to the post of mine it was the reply to. I am under no obligation to talk about how much oil/gas the US or canada has.

In other words you can't stand facts that run counter your personal world view.

 

[oneworld2]

In other words you can't stand facts that run counter your personal world view.

Why did that comment/point " run counter to my world view" ? How so? What world view did I state that it ran counter to?

 

[Antiwar]

"The petrodollar system gave foreign countries another compelling reason to hold and use the dollar. And it preserved the dollar's unique status as the world's top reserve currency. But… why oil? Unmatched Geopolitical Power. Oil is the largest and most strategic commodity market in the world."

 

[Chagos]

EU has the Arab World, EU leaders are already going to the Arab world to beg. The Germans went to Doha and Abu Dhabi, at a time when the need to get away from oil and gas is greater than ever, they just decide to swap the Tyrant in Moscow for the Tyrants on the Peninsula. And we remain stuck with oil, gas, pollution and climate change forever.

That's the problem with (not just) the Germans, dallying on the implementation of renewables for years, even to the point of going ahead with that stupid NS2 when the investment should already have better gone into renewables and the production of same.

Now, with the Russian wake-up call, everything is going helter-skelter but far too late for today and even for the next years.

Germany (to stick with that example) doesn't even have a single LNG terminal on either of its two coasts and building just one is going to take at least 2 years, probably 3 or more.

Now they're all finally even talking "hydrogen", something I've been preaching for years, but none of all that is an overnight thing and won't free those who depended on Russian gas and oil for years from the very same.

Consequently Eastern European EU members, Austria included, are dead set against boycotting Russian energy exports and Germany is going along with them, the whole lot financing Putin's war with millions daily still.

 

[Chagos]

Not counting the US, the world's largest fossil-fuel reserves are held by dictatorships.

Nothing will change until we get away from fossil-fuels.

Bingo.

And if we hadn't all been sleeping on that challenge for past decades, none of us would be in this current mess today.

 

[Peter]

Bet that'll do wonders for your property values.

That would actually be a good thing as house prices where I live are beyond stupid.
The town has a direct and fast train connection with Central London so prices have skyrocketed in the last few decades.

Many local working people have been priced out of the area.

 

[Grand Mal]

That would actually be a good thing as house prices where I live are beyond stupid.
The town has a direct and fast train connection with Central London so prices have skyrocketed in the last few decades.

Many local working people have been priced out of the area.

Place I grew up in has seen that happen too. People who retired in the house they grew up in have had to sell because the value went up so high they couldn't handle the taxes on it anymore. Working people have to commute hours a day. In about 1985 I bought my first house there and I was probably one of the last who could do that on a single working-class income.

 

[Fledermaus]

Why did that comment/point " run counter to my world view" ? How so? What world view did I state that it ran counter to?

You can't figure it out?

Pity.

 

[oneworld2]

You can't figure it out?

Pity.

No you can't provide an example because there isn't one, so you double down. That's the real pity but it is expected. You make baseless claims and then don't have the guts to admit that they are junk. Standard post of your imo

 

[Fledermaus]

No you can't provide an example because there isn't one, so you double down. That's the real pity but it is expected. You make baseless claims and then don't have the guts to admit that they are junk. Standard post of your imo

Pity. Intentional ignorance it is.

 

[Juin]

I think it has something to do with the confidence in the currency, which has about as much to do with the confidence in the home market as in foreign market. The ruble has no confidence in foreign markets, but there are a chance to boost the confidence in the home market. And yes, as you said ot would force foreign governments to buy rubles, thus somewhat increase the value. Then again I don't see this helping them in the long run, getting foreign currency from export, means having foreign currency to pay for imports. As I already say, none of the countries selling to Russia want to be paid in Rubles, any stabilization this would cause would be very short lived. Thus Putin shooting himself in the foot.

I think you are overreacting to the natural adjustments consequent to the Logic of Sanctions. In some ways it is understandable, in calling for scourge earth sanctions those calling for sanctions never took care to address ramifications. So Russia is locked out of payment systems. That is ok, as long as one accepts that such measures are meaningful only if one intends to conduct no more trades with Russia. The question was always there when hysterical calls for booting Russia out of SWIFT went out: how are purchasers of Russian gas gonna pay for the gas?

Clearly, and for the moment, there is still need for Russian gas. Payments cannot be made for them through the regular methods, I imagine. Payments can be made through primitive trade and barter, where goods are exchanged for goods. Or through Roubles.

Countries that at present sell to Russia dont have to accept Roubles. That doesnt mean their goods dont end up in Russia. It just means that some middle person may buy the goods, and then in turn sell to Russia.

But why should they not accept Roubles? My impression is that the only reason they will not accept Roubles is if Roubles crash and become difficult to convert. But as you yourself pointed out, the Rouble crashing is also prevented by same countries purchasing Russian gas in Roubles

 

[Chagos]

For Russia to be able deliver as much gas to China as it has been doing to the EU will take years, if not decades.

For the simple reason of lacking transport capacity, IOW pipelines. The already partly existing "Sili Sibiri" isn't due for completion until next year and will have a yearly capacity only slightly more than half of the existing and running (for 10 years or more) Nordstream One. So that's not even counting the other Russian pipelines to Europe (Jamal, Transgas etc.).

And if we look at the overall trade balance between Russia and China, no way will China want to turn away from EU, the US and other Western countries and compensate such a change by replacing it with imports from and exports to Russia. Seeing how Russia offers no potential in either of those fields.

And the two countries are anything but friends anyway, what may unite them in part are common interests in sticking it to the US. But that won't make for a love relationship by which they'll pursue anything other than their own individual interests.

Meanwhile China is hardly going to abandon a relationship by which its exports to the EU and the UK are 10 times as high as those to Russia, by strongly aligning itself with a state it sees as being of such a failed economy as everybody else sees as well.

It need also be noted that, while not caring a damn about Ukraine and currently seeing little need to worry about Russia's aggression to the West, Putin's aggression does not go without notice in Beijing. If, in any closer future relationship, Russia realizes how it will be ear-marked for the role of a VERY junior partner, China will already be as wary of such unpredictable Kremlin reactions as (we) others see today.

By showing what, behind all the past facade of different attitudes, he is REALLY made of, Putin has shot himself in the foot not just in "OUR" direction.

 

[joluoto]

Honestly what I think will happen is: absolutely nothing. The western countries will ignore it and keep paying in the currency stipulated by previous contract, and Russia will ignore that becase they need the money.

 

[Juin]

Honestly what I think will happen is: absolutely nothing. The western countries will ignore it and keep paying in the currency stipulated by previous contract, and Russia will ignore that becase they need the money.

It still misses the point. What was the point of kicking Russia out of SWIFT if western countries intended to still keep trading with Russia? The push for sanctions was well intended, but was not very scientific in many ways. Olaf Scholz of Germany stated clearly that sanctions are intended to maximise damage on Russia while minimising damage on EU. It doesnt look like much attention was paid to the part about minimising damage on EU.

 

[Juin]

So no, the EU economy will not collapse before the Russian one because without money from the Western Worlds the economy of Russia will collapse sooner rather than later.

The EU economy definitely will not collapse. The question is whether the Russian economy will.

 

[joluoto]

Poland Refuses to Pay for Russian Gas in Rubles​

So Poland already said no. Everyone else will say no too.

 

[joluoto]

Putin’s demand for ruble payments? No way! say EU nations​

No way, José.

 

[Peter]

Just to annoy Putin I suggest we all pay using Vietnamese Dong.

 

[Juin]

Just to annoy Putin I suggest we all pay using Vietnamese Dong.

Or not buy Russian gas at all. Is that not the point of sanctions?

 

[Peter]

Or not buy Russian gas at all. Is that not the point of sanctions?

I'm all for that and would prefer it I'd just find it funny to see him have to handle all those Dongs.

Is it childish? Oh, hell yes.

 

[lwf]

Not relevant to the point I made about how China can and probably will start taking on more energy supplies from Russia thus making the effects of the sanctions placed on Russia less damaging

They are already getting their energy supplies from Russia. Increasing their share in order to offset sanctions may have a small effect, but look at North Korea. It's economy is in shambles despite seemingly endless Chinese "assistance." Why would Russia fare any better?