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Putin threatens with nuclear weapons

blah.

I pointed out years ago already that Germany , for one, is blocking Ukraine's entry into both NATO and EU.

Someone need get his gotcha moment from elsewhere :rolleyes:
 
I don't see Putin using nukes unless someone crosses the border into Russia. Even though I think he is mentally unstable enough to use them, I think his IQ and ego are in concentrated working order, so he is unlikely to take the chance of being the first to use them in this conflict.

However, I don't understand why no one is noting that Russian troops are now in control of Chernobyl. Its security against leaks is now degraded. There is a possibility of moving troops away and bombing it, carefully choosing the way it is done, and with what, to try to put blame on Ukraine. That would devastate not only Ukraine, Belarus, and part of Russia, but all sorts of NATO countries and leave him room to argue that this is what Ukraine did.

It's as phony as his remark on "denazifying Ukraine" in the context of a half-Jewish president with Soviet heroes and victims of real Nazism in his past, but it seems like a more plausible realpolitik choice.
 
Chagos said:
Sorry for truncating your post in my quote below, it's not my intention to take anything from the rest of it. Just that I wanted to clear up these issues
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No problem. I do the same thing. That way it is always clear which specific point I am responding to.


Chagos said:
What this current catastrophe would today do to the stance of either is anybody's guess (and also a moot issue right now), but at the Nato summit in Bucharest in 2008, both countries vetoed acceptance of Ukraine into NATO, against the fervent desire of specifically the US.
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Did they veto it for any specific reason?

"Vetoing because they feel that Ukraine should improve before being accepted" is a lot different from "vetoing because they will never accept Ukraine under any circumstances."

I am vaguely aware that there has been past opposition to accepting Ukraine, but I was always under the impression that that opposition would change if Ukraine eliminated corruption and strengthened their democracy.
 
Toggle Almendro said:
No problem. I do the same thing. That way it is always clear which specific point I am responding to.



Did they veto it for any specific reason?

"Vetoing because they feel that Ukraine should improve before being accepted" is a lot different from "vetoing because they will never accept Ukraine under any circumstances."

I am vaguely aware that there has been past opposition to accepting Ukraine, but I was always under the impression that that opposition would change if Ukraine eliminated corruption and strengthened their democracy.
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You are correct (in that which I've bolded and colored).

But beyond those issues there was also the desire to not unnecessarily provoke Putin who also attended as a guest. The decision /veto was not a "forever" call, just "not right now and to be reviewed at a later date".

Of course the (later) Donbass fiasco placed Ukraine into civil war, a condition that by NATO articles precludes any entry.

A darn shame IMO.

P.S. The UK incidentally opposed entry as well at the time.
 
MaryP said:
And if he uses nuclear weapons on Ukraine, are we still going to stand and watch? How does that work? Surely there's some sort of rule about not using those ghastly things, isn't there?
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Hope the breeze in in Russia's favor. And China.
 
Juks said:
In his speech ahead of his attack on Ukraine tonight, Putin threatened the Western world with the devastating consequences if we interfere. It can only be interpreted in one way. He is ready to use nuclear weapons (“consequences we have never seen”...)


The thing is that as long as the Ukraine manages to withhold it’s ground these initial weeks, the country has a great chance of resisting the Russian attack. The population is motivated and prepared for resistance, the size of the army is as large as the Russian attack force and the West will continue to supply Ukraine with ammunition and weapons.

A defeat or prolonged war is not in his world of performance so the question is, if the Ukraine withstand the assault, will he then also use nuclear weapons to make a quick completion of the invasion and will the Russian military let him do so or will he be removed from within?
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Are you actually serious? Lmao, Putin can and will destroy Ukraine in minutes whenever he chooses and nobody within Russia or elsewhere will stop him
 
HennyBogan said:
Are you actually serious? Lmao, Putin can and will destroy Ukraine in minutes whenever he chooses and nobody within Russia or elsewhere will stop him
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Do you have anything else to come up with than all these defiant oneliners?
 
Today Putin ordered his nuclear forces to adopt a higher degree of readiness.

Has he lost his mind? Is Putin still rational? Would he order a small tactical nuke explosion in Kyiv?

People better start thinking of these things. I think Putin is perhaps mentally, and certainly emotionally unstable.

Putin has been living in isolation and has not ruled from Moscow since the beginning of Covid in Russia.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Today Putin ordered his nuclear forces to adopt a higher degree of readiness.

Has he lost his mind? Is Putin still rational? Would he order a small tactical nuke explosion in Kyiv?

People better start thinking of these things. I think Putin is perhaps mentally, and certainly emotionally unstable.

Putin has been living in isolation and has not ruled from Moscow since the beginning of Covid in Russia.
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He is fuming that Ukraine hasn't fallen already. Winning has never been enough for him, it's all about winning big (see him cheating in elections he would have won legit because he doesn't want 55% of the vote, he wants 95). Taking losses and winning a grinding war slowly feels like losing to such a person.
 
HennyBogan said:
Are you actually serious? Lmao, Putin can and will destroy Ukraine in minutes whenever he chooses and nobody within Russia or elsewhere will stop him
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These people don't live in reality. They live in a simulacrum created by the media: one where social media hashtags and imaginary fighter pilots can defeat a real world army.
 
AmNat said:
The Ukrainian Army will be non-existent by Monday.
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it is looking like this will be as accurate as you pandemic & COVID predictions

Do you ever tire of repeating incorrect information online?
 
AmNat said:
These people don't live in reality. They live in a simulacrum created by the media: one where social media hashtags and imaginary fighter pilots can defeat a real world army.
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It’s like reading fantasy novels from 50 years ago
Total delusion lmfao
 
MaryP said:
And if he uses nuclear weapons on Ukraine, are we still going to stand and watch? How does that work? Surely there's some sort of rule about not using those ghastly things, isn't there
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Not really. The Ukraine isn't in NATO.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Not really. The Ukraine isn't in NATO.
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Ukraine may not be in NATO, but if the world stands by and does nothing while a nuclear-weapons power uses nuclear weapons against a non-nuclear-weapons country, that will be the immediate end of the Non Proliferation Treaty and most countries will develop their own nuclear weapons.
 
HennyBogan said:
Are you actually serious? Lmao, Putin can and will destroy Ukraine in minutes whenever he chooses and nobody within Russia or elsewhere will stop him
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Well, Putin is on Day 6 now and hasn't even taken Kyiv much less Ukraine.
 
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HennyBogan said:
It’s like reading fantasy novels from 50 years ago. Total delusion lmfao
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And yet here it is - a week after the invasion - and Kyiv has not been captured.
 
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