• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Putin Defectors Say They've Seized Belgorod Towns, Vow to 'Liberate Russia'

I already answered....by pointing out the fact that his men began butchering Jews well before his internment. This fantasy you seem to cling to that they were somehow forced, or going against Bandera’s wishes, is simply not born out by the historical record.

Israel condemns the celebration of Bandera for a reason.
 
I already answered....by pointing out the fact that his men began butchering Jews well before his internment. This fantasy you seem to cling to that they were somehow forced, or going against Bandera’s wishes, is simply not born out by the historical record.

Israel condemns the celebration of Bandera for a reason.

When did BANDERA get thrown in the Concentration Camp?

When did the Holocaust begin?
 
I already answered....by pointing out the fact that his men began butchering Jews well before his internment. This fantasy you seem to cling to that they were somehow forced, or going against Bandera’s wishes, is simply not born out by the historical record.

Israel condemns the celebration of Bandera for a reason.
 
Re Bin Laden and Bandera. Here are my grounds as Bin Laden's death as murder.


"the killing could only be justified in a situation of self-defence or an immediate danger for others. As this situation apparently did not exist, the killing of bin Laden amounted to an extrajudicial execution."

At the time of the 9/11 attack, the killing of bin Laden would have been legal under Article 51 of the UN chapter but by the time of his death 10 years later, America had taken its eyes off the hunt and was foolishly engaged in Iraq mk.II

If bin Laden was still attempting to organise murder plots against Obama and Patraeus, then this brings his death back into the sphere of legal execution and could be considered lawful as "he would (still) taking a direct part in hostilities."

In the case of the fascist, Bandera, it's even more clear cut that he was murdered.

  • Was Bandera planning to murder the Soviet leadership - no.
  • Was Bandera planning the violent overthrow of the Soviet government - no.

He was not directly involved in war against the Soviet Union.

Bandera's views and politics were different but as reprehensible as Bin Laden's but he had already faced prison twice, the first time was a commutation of a death penalty. By now, he lived in a democratic nation with laws and rules that adhered to UN principles and his "extrajudicial execution" might have been music to the ears of pro-Russia posters but it was clearly murder.
 
I already answered....by pointing out the fact that his men began butchering Jews well before his internment. This fantasy you seem to cling to that they were somehow forced, or going against Bandera’s wishes, is simply not born out by the historical record.

As already pointed out, past a certain number of murders nobody gives a shit about “jurisdiction“.
Some people are in denial about Bandera like they are about Azov, it's a strange Orwellian World they inhabit where murderous war criminals are the good guys and the liberators are the Devil, the funny part is all these Ukrainian collaborators were classed as Untermench by the Germans, it's Stockholm Syndrome on steroids.
 
Some people are in denial about Bandera

There are four posters who believe that the war in Ukraine is all about denazifying and demilitarising Ukraine... to get rid of the memory of Bandera.

Did you watch Prighozin's video about this? I've not read you or the other 3 commenting anywhere about Prighozin's words, you and the other 3 keep posting the same bullshit as if the war now is part 2 of the varied conflicts and mass murder of the 1930's and 40's.

Why do you and your fellow supporters think anyone is fooled at the mere mention of Bandera as justification to abandon Ukraine to annexation?
 
There are four posters who believe that the war in Ukraine is all about denazifying and demilitarising Ukraine... to get rid of the memory of Bandera.

Did you watch Prighozin's video about this? I've not read you or the other 3 commenting anywhere about Prighozin's words, you and the other 3 keep posting the same bullshit as if the war now is part 2 of the varied conflicts and mass murder of the 1930's and 40's.

Why do you and your fellow supporters think anyone is fooled at the mere mention of Bandera as justification to abandon Ukraine to annexation?
You may not have noticed but the Bandera credo is alive and kicking, there are many disciples in Ukraine that are trying to fight WW2 again they have a fantasy about marching on Moscow, those clowns are fighting a Nato war against Russia it's that simple.
 
You may not have noticed but the Bandera credo is alive and kicking,

Only a fool would ignore that Azov fighters (for one example) tended to be from the hard right / fascist end of politics.

Only a fool would extend that small proportion of fascists to the rest of Ukraine and argue against Ukraine defending itself because of that small number.

there are many disciples in Ukraine that are trying to fight WW2 again

There is no "many."

People like you have been shown repeatedly that fascists in Ukraine are only about 2-3% of the voting population and they also have very little influence in politics yet the same people who shout "Bandera" as if it's a clever argument are supporting "the Russian government’s cynical abuse of the term genocide, the memory of World War II and the Holocaust, and the equation of the Ukrainian state with the Nazi regime to justify its unprovoked aggression. This rhetoric is factually wrong, morally repugnant and deeply offensive to the memory of millions of victims of Nazism and those who courageously fought against it, including Russian and Ukrainian soldiers of the Red Army."

those clowns are fighting a Nato war against Russia it's that simple

NATO countries have supported Ukraine with weapons and training but it is not a NATO war.

For one, can you tell me how many weapons Hungary has supplied to Ukraine? How much money has Hungary donated to Ukraine?

If your answer is "ZERO" then so is your argument about NATO.
 
So it’s okay to invade and kill millions of people when it’s a war you support, but if it’s a war you don’t, it makes it fascism?

You repeated the Russian lies about why the war started. It’s clear now that it was about a land grab this whole time.


His thesis is not about any noble casus belli. It is strictly about "who" - Ukraine/The West is always bad. Anti-US is always good, no matter the "who" or lack of a noble casus belli.
 
I already answered....by pointing out the fact that his men began butchering Jews well before his internment. This fantasy you seem to cling to that they were somehow forced, or going against Bandera’s wishes, is simply not born out by the historical record.

Israel condemns the celebration of Bandera for a reason.

You answered by not answering.

Tigerace "logic".
 
Only a fool would ignore that Azov fighters (for one example) tended to be from the hard right / fascist end of politics.

Only a fool would extend that small proportion of fascists to the rest of Ukraine and argue against Ukraine defending itself because of that small number.



There is no "many."

People like you have been shown repeatedly that fascists in Ukraine are only about 2-3% of the voting population and they also have very little influence in politics yet the same people who shout "Bandera" as if it's a clever argument are supporting "the Russian government’s cynical abuse of the term genocide, the memory of World War II and the Holocaust, and the equation of the Ukrainian state with the Nazi regime to justify its unprovoked aggression. This rhetoric is factually wrong, morally repugnant and deeply offensive to the memory of millions of victims of Nazism and those who courageously fought against it, including Russian and Ukrainian soldiers of the Red Army."



NATO countries have supported Ukraine with weapons and training but it is not a NATO war.

For one, can you tell me how many weapons Hungary has supplied to Ukraine? How much money has Hungary donated to Ukraine?

If your answer is "ZERO" then so is your argument about NATO.
Hungary seems to be the only one that's not insane, Ukraine has the largest army in Europe, or had before thousands were killed, Nato has been arming and training that army for years, they have been supplied with modern weapons, £billions of worth, they are given intelligence by Nato who are also involved in targeting, it's just my opinion but i believe some of those Weapon systems have been operated by Nato personnel, so yes it,s a Nato war on Russia, you had better just hope Russia's patience doesn't run out or everyone will be in a world of hurt, i believe the final roll of the dice by those rabid warmongers in the US and their vassals will be to deploy Nato troops in Ukraine, the Polish have already made threats against Belarus,as for Nazis in Ukraine they are part of the armed forces, i don't think Britain has a SS tribute Battalion in the army.
 
Fledermaus “logic”; Nazi collaborators are okay because they fought the commies.
 
Your desperate attempts to defend the Nazi collaborators speak for themselves.
 
Hungary seems to be the only one that's not insane

Hungary is about as big a fan of Putin and his war as you are. No wonder you like them. Orban is also pretty much a fascist and Fidesz have the support of 76% of the extreme far-right in Hungary.

Now, remind me how Ukraine is all about "Bandera....."

You better change that "socialist" tag you have on your account.

so yes it,s a Nato war on Russia

You haven't proven it.

Tell me, if Britain (for example) goes to war with Argentina to reclaim the Falklands, is that a NATO operation or a British operation?

So, bring that back to Ukraine - individual countries can donate and train Ukrainian forces but that does not make it a "NATO" operation.

as for Nazis in Ukraine they are part of the armed forces, i don't think Britain has a SS tribute Battalion in the army.

Politically, Ukraine is way behind the UK and even further behind the USA. Of course there will be nazis in Ukraine's armed forces there just as we still occasionally have nazi problems in UK military forces or even the police.

Some people tell me things are much better than they were in the 80's with Deepcut when I was there but we are way behind the USA where the military was integrated in the 50's and you could have ethnic minority senior officers go all the way to the top.

We have nothing to brag about in the UK when we look at Ukraine.
 
As usual, nothing but frantic attempts at denial in desperate hopes of defending the Nazi collaborators.
 
He lied about Rogue Valley and now it's about you but good luck waiting for an honest reply with a link.

Coming from the guy claiming Finland should be scared of Russia because of the freaking Napoleonic Wars that‘s a laugh.
 
As usual, nothing but frantic attempts at denial in desperate hopes of defending the Nazi collaborators.
I know it's unbelievable, as far as i know there are no full blown Nazi battalions in the British army like the Oswald Mosley battalion or the Lord Haw Haw Brigade, and of course it's a Nato war i gave the guy all the information on how far they have gone to support the Kiev Regime, i am not the only one saying it several former US and British military people say so, it's as clear as day what's going on, they have done everything but deploy Nato troops into Ukraine, and there are claims some are already there such as Poles and several killed in combat, masquerading as Mercenaries, i can't believe how people think it's a good idea to push Russia into a corner, it makes no sense.
 
I know it's unbelievable, as far as i know there are no full blown Nazi battalions in the British army like the Oswald Mosley battalion or the Lord Haw Haw Brigade, and of course it's a Nato war i gave the guy all the information on how far they have gone to support the Kiev Regime, i am not the only one saying it several former US and British military people say so, it's as clear as day what's going on, they have done everything but deploy Nato troops into Ukraine, and there are claims some are already there such as Poles and several killed in combat, masquerading as Mercenaries, i can't believe how people think it's a good idea to push Russia into a corner, it makes no sense.

The UK strongly supports democratic Ukraine, both politically and militarily.

You support the authoritarian Putin government. Also wanted internationally for war crimes.

You're a traitor to your own nation. You stab the UK in the back every day here at DP.

You also dishonor your Brit military people, both the living and the dead.
 
There is no depths to the limit of evil you will defend in the name of “fighting communism”.

That is the problem.
 
Coming from the guy claiming Finland should be scared of Russia because of the freaking Napoleonic Wars that‘s a laugh.

Didn't you ask me not to quote you? So why are you quoting me?

And if you're going to quote me, at least repeat the specific content of what I said. Don't lie and make something else by pretending I didn't say anything about the other two wars between Finland and Russia.

Better still, deal with all the links I gave from all sorts of Fins from different political backgrounds about how they have to deal with living next door with your beloved Russia.
But yes... the word of a pro-Putin poster should be taken over a wide variety of historians from around the world.
 
Didn't you ask me not to quote you? So why are you quoting me?

And if you're going to quote me, at least repeat the specific content of what I said. Don't lie and make something else by pretending I didn't say anything about the other two wars between Finland and Russia.

Better still, deal with all the links I gave from all sorts of Fins from different political backgrounds about how they have to deal with living next door with your beloved Russia.
But yes... the word of a pro-Putin poster should be taken over a wide variety of historians from around the world.

I asked why you were quoting me, given your claims about me. You seem unable to provide a satisfactory answer to that.

Yes, you tried to pretend Finland joining Operation Barbarossa was Finland being attacked by Russia. Shows how little you actually know about the country, and basic history to boot.

Which makes your sputtering all the more comical.

Here’s a hint: as I clearly showed, there is no threat to Finland. It doesn’t exist.

They bought into a bunch of lies the West forced down their throats, and they will be the ones paying the price when America demands for them to send some cannon fodder to fight in another unwinnable guerrilla war for dubious reasons.
 
Back
Top Bottom