Puerto Rican Statehood due to government shutdown!

[Old English]

And, to think, if we the people, not the republicans or democrats in Washington, can wake up Puerto Ricans by informing them of their rights, then who is to say we can't wake up the people of North Korea or Iran?

 

[Old English]

Who is to say we can't change the world by having a simple conversation?

 

[Old English]

That is the value of this tiny island in the Caribbean sea to the rest of the world!

 

[Excon]

When he said what about taxation without representation. It's not right that they pay taxes like the rest of us, contribute to our causes, but have no real say in our politics.

Well it does depend now doesn't it.
If they receive more or break even in protection, welfare programs and funding, then they pay in taxes, no it really isn't unfair.

 

[Excon]

Well, either way you look at it, this still deserves to be a national issue; more so than repealing the affordable care act...

No, it is not more important than getting rid of ACA.

 

[clownboy]

Well, thank you, that just proves my point: We need to have a national conversation about Puerto Rico! However, I believe, as a Puerto Rican, that it can become a state!

There is already a process and meaningful political discussion going on right now. You've taken the first plebiscite, now it's time for the next steps. Once you decide between independence and statehood then we have to decide if we want you as a state or to let you go. Continued commonwealth status is also an option, but in my view, a crappy one.

Have to say, if statehood for PR were put to a vote here in the US I'd vote no as I believe would the majority.

 

[sbrettt]

Why do we need to tap into Latin America in some figurative sense? What does this have to do with the government taking a vacation?

I don't see the point you're trying to make.

If they become state #51 it would be no different than when Hawaii became state #50. :shrug: It's not going to alter anything, shift anything, do anything other than just giving us another state.

I agree the way he's lumping many separate issues together is strange, but he has a point about Puerto Rican statehood. To the bolded, incorrect. It would give them taxation with representation. That's what America was founded on, and it's hypocritical for us to be doing the same thing the Brits were doing to the framers.

 

[clownboy]

Well, either way you look at it, this still deserves to be a national issue; more so than repealing the affordable care act...

No, dealing with oppressive club rules trumps the new membership discussion.

 

[sbrettt]

Well it does depend now doesn't it.
If they receive more or break even in protection, welfare programs and funding, then they pay in taxes, no it really isn't unfair.

Yes it is. They shouldn't be paying for our causes, but have no say in what those causes are.

 

[APACHERAT]

Well, except for the really cool rain forest on top of a mountain in PR, and the awesome old forts, artillery emplacements and lookout spots scattered around the island, and the fact the PR is an island in the Atlantic and LA a city on the pacific coast. In fact, they are almost nothing alike.

The Puerto Ricans may speak better Spanish than those in LA. But both LA and PR have the same stench. But PR has the trade winds to blow the stench away while LA has to wait for the Santa Anna winds.

 

[sbrettt]

Have to say, if statehood for PR were put to a vote here in the US I'd vote no as I believe would the majority.

Then you would be very similar to the loyalists in the revolutionary war. It's hypocritical for us to do the same thing the UK was doing to Puerto Rico.

 

[danarhea]

Statehood for the American Samoan Islands!! LOL.

 

[Redress]

The Puerto Ricans may speak better Spanish than those in LA. But both LA and PR have the same stench. But PR has the trade winds to blow the stench away while LA has to wait for the Santa Anna winds.

Man, that is painfully ignorant. It would be like saying Japan and the Philippines are just alike...

 

[clownboy]

Then you would be very similar to the loyalists in the revolutionary war. It's hypocritical for us to do the same thing the UK was doing to Puerto Rico.

What? You ignore where my position is that they be given independence. The taxes they pay don't cover the services they receive and there is no reason to continue with the commonweath BS. Cut them loose and recognise them as a separate autonomous country.

 

[sbrettt]

What? You ignore where my position is that they be given independence. The taxes they pay don't cover the services they receive and there is no reason to continue with the commonweath BS. Cut them loose and recognise them as a separate autonomous country.

LOL my bad, didn't notice it. I can dig that. eace

 

[Aunt Spiker]

It does though because is it fair that the tea party has the ability to shut down the government while Puerto Ricans, who depend on the US government don't get a say in the matter?

I DON'T EVEN HAVE A SAY IN THE MATTER. . . and I'm a full, born here, voting citizen. Geez.

You think we can all ban together, get on the gramophones, and TELL the president not to veto the budget and TELL the Democrats and the Republicans to ALL grow the **** up? No, I don't have that type of power in my little voting fingertips. . . even though I've been bitching since before it actually happened.

This, also, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Tea Party - that's even more absurd than some of the points you made in your OP.

Bring it into focus - you're just ranting aimlessly.

 

[APACHERAT]

Man, that is painfully ignorant. It would be like saying Japan and the Philippines are just alike...

Are you trying to say that Japan and the Philippines aren't both archipelagoes ?

Please expalain.

 

[Excon]

I really hate when a person doesn't fully inform them self of what has come before.
It saves on having to provide the same information already given.

Why? What would be the harm in either accepting PR as the country's 51 state or granting its independence?

I admit I don't know that much about the island territory, but I have a couple of co-workers and a friend who are Puerto Rican and they've voiced similar concerns over their statehood as Old English has. Mostly what I've read in this thread is flat out dissent over the issue of PR's statehood or independence without any real rational for denying such. I'd like to know why the outright resistance to the idea?

Apparently they themselves do not want outright statehood.

Puerto Rico Statehood: 5 Reasons Why The Island Won't Become The 51st State

11/08/2012

[...]

When statehood received the largest share of votes on Tuesday’s two-part status referendum, it led several U.S. outlets to report that a majority of Puerto Ricans had finally opted for statehood.

It’s a misleading impression. The referendum consisted of two questions. First, it asked voters if they wanted to keep their current U.S. commonwealth status. Dissatisfaction emerged victorious with 52 percent of the vote. The referendum then asked if voters wanted to become a U.S. state, an independent country, or a freely associated state -- a type of independence in close alliance with the United States. Some 61 percent of those who answered the second question chose statehood.

That 61 percent wasn’t the majority, however. Over 470,000 voters intentionally left the second question blank, meaning that only 45 percent of those casting ballots supported statehood.

[...]​

Puerto Rico Statehood: 5 Reasons Why The Island Won't Become The 51st State​

This should answer your question as to why.
As noted in the second post in this topic, Puerto Rico's poverty rate is 44.9% and debt ridden.

We do not need them.
It is ridiculous to even consider it.

Puerto Rico is living an impoverished debt nightmare reminiscent of southern Europe or Detroit

September 19, 2013

[...]

Puerto Rico’s poverty rate hit 44.9%, according to new data released today by the US Census Bureau—that’s nearly double the poverty rate in Mississippi, the most impoverished of the fifty states. It’s the latest in a string of bad economic news for the self-governing US territory.

Puerto Rico’s rap sheet isn’t so different from that of many troubled European countries. It’s been in a recession since 2006—longer even than Greece. And like many euro zone countries, it can’t inflate its way out of its problems because it uses the US dollar.

In June 2012, the Puerto Rican government had $67.7 billion in total debt outstanding, not including $30 billion in unfunded pension liabilities. That works out to more than $18,000 per capita, compared to about $11,000 for Massachusetts, the most indebted US state per capita.

Puerto Rico’s debt to GDP ratio comes out to 84% versus the US median of 3%, according to Morgan Stanley. Although the territory’s unemployment rate has fallen from a high of 16.9% in 2010, it’s still high at 13.5% as of July.

[...]
​

Puerto Rico is living an impoverished debt nightmare reminiscent of southern Europe or Detroit – Quartz​

 

[Excon]

Yes it is. They shouldn't be paying for our causes, but have no say in what those causes are.

As a Commonwealth, no it isn't.

 

[sbrettt]

As a Commonwealth, no it isn't.

That doesn't get around the fact that they're taxed without representation. I agree with Clownboy. The whole common wealth thing is bs. It's just a way for us to do the same thing the UK did to the framers.

 

[Excon]

That doesn't get around the fact that they're taxed without representation. I agree with Clownboy. The whole common wealth thing is bs. It's just a way for us to do the same thing the UK did to the framers.

Actually it does.
That is part and parcel of being a Commonwealth.
You not liking it is one thing. But they are, and have been, by vote, ok with being a self-governing US territory.

 

[sbrettt]

Actually it does.
That is part and parcel of being a Commonwealth.
You not liking it is one thing. But they are, and have been, by vote, ok with being a self-governing US territory.

Sorry, should have phrased that differently. It doesn't get around the injustice of being taxed without representation.

 

[Excon]

Sorry, should have phrased that differently. It doesn't get around the injustice of being taxed without representation.

There is no injustice here.
They are self governing.

 

[sbrettt]

There is no injustice here.
They are self governing.

And paying for our crap on top of that.

 

[clownboy]

And paying for our crap on top of that.

I believe it's been shown to be the other way around.