Public school prayer

[gidcap]

Timely piece on Muslim prayer in public schools - The American Spectator : CAIR and Student Prayer
follows on to constitutionality of any prayer in public schools..
read through and help stimulate debate

 

[American]

I'm sure that everyone will agree that if Christian prayer isn't allowe, then neither is Muslim prayer.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

 

[davidtaylorjr]

The notion that prayer shouldn't be allowed, and that teacher's shouldn't be allowed to pray is a ruling that was in fact in violation of the 1st ammendment. Court got it wrong.

 

[Paschendale]

I don't see the problem. Students in a school can pray all they like. The school can't host it or endorse it. Students can have a religious oriented club, so long as the faculty doesn't participate. Actually that rule seems a little overdone. A religious club should be treated just like any other club. The supervising faculty shouldn't be so restricted. But either way, if students want to pray on their own time, even while at school, they can go to some empty room and do that. Just like any other activity.

 

[Gardener]

I'm sure that everyone will agree that if Christian prayer isn't allowe, then neither is Muslim prayer.

One would hope, anyway.

What I have seen on these boards over the years leads me to a different conclusion as to what to expect.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

One would hope, anyway.

What I have seen on these boards over the years leads me to a different conclusion as to what to expect.

I would agree.

 

[Manc Skipper]

That would appear a bizarre sectarian supernaturalist conclusion absent evidence.

 

[Top Cat]

I'm sure that everyone will agree that if Christian prayer isn't allowe, then neither is Muslim prayer.

For once American has a point. Reading something from The American Sphincter in addition to agreeing with American makes me yearn for a bath.

 

[michijo]

I want the right to hold human feces between my hands and blow on it lightly during school hours or before a test if I need some motivation.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I want the right to hold human feces between my hands and blow on it lightly during school hours or before a test if I need some motivation.

Be a rebel and do it anyway.

 

[Kobie]

I'm sure that everyone will agree that if Christian prayer isn't allowe, then neither is Muslim prayer.

Christian prayer in school IS allowed. There is nothing stopping anyone from praying in school. It just can't be mandatory, and it can't be led by a faculty member.

 

[obvious Child]

I'm sure that everyone will agree that if Christian prayer isn't allowe, then neither is Muslim prayer.

I'm pretty sure that a school has to give a Muslim student a place and time to worship by themselves or with other Muslim students per their religion as that's a direct infringement on their 1st amendment rights. Nothing is stopping a Christian from praying silently to themselves. As long as the prayer is not disruptive or authority led, any religion can worship in schools.

 

[johndylan1]

I don't see the problem. Students in a school can pray all they like. The school can't host it or endorse it. Students can have a religious oriented club, so long as the faculty doesn't participate. Actually that rule seems a little overdone. A religious club should be treated just like any other club. The supervising faculty shouldn't be so restricted. But either way, if students want to pray on their own time, even while at school, they can go to some empty room and do that. Just like any other activity.

Would providing an empty room be considered facilitating prayer in your opinion?

 

[johndylan1]

Christian prayer in school IS allowed. There is nothing stopping anyone from praying in school. It just can't be mandatory, and it can't be led by a faculty member.

Nor can publicly owned equipment be used. Texas case banned use of PA system before football games.

 

[Paschendale]

Would providing an empty room be considered facilitating prayer in your opinion?

No. The point is that a religious club should have the same privileges as any other club. Other clubs get to use empty rooms.

 

[American]

I'm pretty sure that a school has to give a Muslim student a place and time to worship by themselves or with other Muslim students per their religion as that's a direct infringement on their 1st amendment rights. Nothing is stopping a Christian from praying silently to themselves. As long as the prayer is not disruptive or authority led, any religion can worship in schools.

Us Christians want a special place to pray too, and a rug.

 

[American]

Christian prayer in school IS allowed. There is nothing stopping anyone from praying in school. It just can't be mandatory, and it can't be led by a faculty member.

No one has EVER argue for that.

 

[Kobie]

No one has EVER argue for that.

Nobody said they did. Although I am sure some idiot someplace HAS argued for that in the past (and hopefully was laughed out of the room).

 

[obvious Child]

Us Christians want a special place to pray too, and a rug.

Find me the part in the Bible that requires that and you shall have it. The special place is just so it's not disruptive to the rest. Kind of hard to have it not be disruptive when they're bowing on a rug a bunch of times. If Christianity had mandatory prayer rituals that were potentially disruptive, they'd get their own room too.

 

[Dittohead not!]

From the OP:

Last month, the Arab American News released a statement by CAIR describing a negotiated arrangement with the school board in Dearborn. The district has agreed to a policy that “fully accommodates student-led prayer” and allows for “unexcused absences for students who leave early on Friday for Jumu’ah prayers,” which occur every Friday. When contacted, an unnamed source from CAIR Michigan described the agreement as providing for student-led, student-initiated prayer “between classes, in spare time and during lunch breaks” that is “not led by any school official.”

Student led, between classes, in spare time and during lunch breaks, in other words, not mandatory. That policy is consistent with general school policy regarding any sorts of prayers, Muslim or not.

 

[American]

Find me the part in the Bible that requires that and you shall have it. The special place is just so it's not disruptive to the rest. Kind of hard to have it not be disruptive when they're bowing on a rug a bunch of times. If Christianity had mandatory prayer rituals that were potentially disruptive, they'd get their own room too.

I don't have to justify it, just ask for it. But since you asked.

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

 

[obvious Child]

I don't have to justify it, just ask for it. But since you asked.

Based on how Christians have been praying in America, that doesn't seem like anyone follows that these days. Also, it doesn't seem like that is mandatory for prayer.

 

[American]

Based on how Christians have been praying in America, that doesn't seem like anyone follows that these days. Also, it doesn't seem like that is mandatory for prayer.

Jesus made the statement, you can take that as you will. Nevertheless, I think I made my point. You can either appear fair, or more support of other religions, your choice.

 

[MTAtech]

The notion that prayer shouldn't be allowed, and that teacher's shouldn't be allowed to pray is a ruling that was in fact in violation of the 1st ammendment (sic). Court got it wrong.

Except that's a misrepresentation of what the Supreme Court actually decided.

They said that public school mandated prayer is banned. However, a student certainly has the right to pray on their own as long as it is not disruptive to others. Other rulings have established that if school property is available for use for outside groups it must be also available for religious groups under the same terms.

Generally, the SCOTUS has been spot on with religious rights decisions.