Psalm 139:13-16

It is not hard to see what David is talking about here.

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Psalm 139:13-16 “You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Everyday of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.”

VySky said:

It is not hard to see what David is talking about here.

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It points to predestination which opens up a whole can of worms…..mainly pointing to the absence of free will. I would strongly suggest to consider the source…..I think David was speaking completely for himself……he always said ‘me’ instead of ‘we’. It can be argued that David might have been one of a very, very few in the OT that had a connection with the Spirit throughout his life…..that was what gave him surety…certainty in what he said and wrote…..a ‘chosen one’ if you will.

If one wishes to say this universally applies to all of us then you are accepting predestination and the absence of free will…….God’s will is done in his kingdom..Heaven…but not here on earth.

VySky said:

It is not hard to see what David is talking about here.

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You gave no response….I assumed you were thinking of abortion ? If this passage implies predestination then abortions are predestined ? And if it is free will instead, is there such a thing as collective free will ? Where only some have free will ?

VySky said:

It is not hard to see what David is talking about here.

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Psalm 139:13-16 “You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Everyday of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.”

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God knitted pregnant women as well.

Cool. No reason for state policy, all the same.

Psalm 139 teaches us that Jehovah deeply cares about his worshippers. He searches through them and watches over them as they go about their lives each day. He thus knows the problems they face, and he understands the pain of mind and heart that may result from these hardships. Are you moved to worship such a caring God? If you are, you can be sure of this: Jehovah will never “forget your work and the love you showed for his name.”—Hebrews 6:10.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011651

Predestination or not ? Free will or not ?

Jehovah “alone is wise” in another sense: Only he is able to peer into the future. Remember, Jehovah uses the farseeing eagle to symbolize divine wisdom. A golden eagle may weigh a mere ten pounds (5 kg), but its eyes are larger than those of a full-grown man. The eagle’s eyesight is amazingly keen, enabling the bird to spot tiny prey from thousands of feet aloft, perhaps even from miles away! Jehovah himself once said of the eagle: “Its eyes look far into the distance.” (Job 39:29) In a similar sense, Jehovah can look “far into the distance” of time—the future!

The Bible is full of evidence that this is true. It contains hundreds of prophecies, or history written in advance. The outcome of wars, the rise and fall of world powers, and even the specific battle strategies of military commanders were all foretold in the Bible—in some cases, hundreds of years in advance.—Isaiah 44:25–45:4; Daniel 8:2-8, 20-22.

Does this mean, though, that God has already foreseen the choices you will make in life? Some who preach the doctrine of predestination insist that the answer is yes. However, that notion actually undermines Jehovah’s wisdom, for it implies that he cannot control his ability to look into the future. To illustrate: If you had a singing voice of unparalleled beauty, would you then have no choice but to sing all the time? The notion is absurd! Likewise, Jehovah has the ability to foreknow the future, but he does not use it all the time. To do so might infringe upon our own free will, a precious gift that Jehovah will never revoke.—Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.

Worse yet, the very notion of predestination suggests that Jehovah’s wisdom is cold, devoid of heart, feeling, or compassion. But nothing could be further from the truth! The Bible teaches that Jehovah is “wise in heart.” (Job 9:4) Not that he has a literal heart, but the Bible often uses that term in connection with the innermost self, which includes motivations and feelings, such as love. So Jehovah’s wisdom, like his other qualities, is governed by love.—1 John 4:8.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102002041

Romans 9:18-- "So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen". ( God chose who's hearts who would accept Christ and whose hearts could not)

1 Kings 19:18 - "Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.” (These men were chosen by God, not the other way around. So to are those who are saved.)

Matthew 22:14- “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Romans 8:29-30. "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

Plenty have used free will to say they accept Christ. But scripture like the parable of the 4 soils tells us that all those who think they are saved are not truly saved. Only 25% are.

The word "predestined" comes from the Greek word proorizo, which means "determining beforehand," "ordaining," or "deciding ahead of time".

As I stated earlier I can believe that David was a predestined one because he had the Spirit…..it seems important that within the earthly lineage of Jesus that one in that lineage could be recognized as one having the Spirit. Interesting for me is when people try to speak of the ‘central message’ of Scripture. The literal central message is Psalms 117….the shortest book in the Bible. Look it up….naturally we are easily given to over complicating things…eager to display our wisdom. The very center verse of the Bible is Psalms 118:8…..read it. When you are eager to evangelize these passages can be your motivation and refuge. The central verse can be understood as ‘in God we trust’….also interesting for obvious reasons……

VySky said:

Romans 9:18-- "So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen". ( God chose who's hearts who would accept Christ and whose hearts could not)

1 Kings 19:18 - "Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.” (These men were chosen by God, not the other way around. So to are those who are saved.)

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Thanks for citing these verses. I was immediately reminded of Romans 11:4-10 which mentions the 7,000. In particular verse 8….”God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so they could not see and ears so they could not hear, to this very day.” We need to think of the rationale for God to do this. Matthew 13:10-17…”Why do you speak to them in parables ? “…..even the answer is somewhat of a parable that we must discern. To this day the majority of Christians cannot interpret the parables….the true meaning remains without understanding. The rationale for me is that God reads the mind, the thoughts the hearts of men. What he most surely sees is a multitude driven by their egos that will rush to judge others and claim superiority fueled by pride. His grace will never be given to these…He is looking for worthy custodians…those that have humbled themselves. The ‘pearls’ will not be cast to the pigs. A true messenger for God does not resort to hammering others over the head with ‘in your face’ tactics…..it is doomed to failure and will prove to be counterproductive……you might get followers seeking company but if they become a mirror image the Kingdom has gained nothing IMO……